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QFT
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Jun 2019
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,456

14 Sep 2022, 11:40 am

So few months ago I talked to a woman on a dating site. She started out by saying that she had a roommate who also had Asperger and was complaining about her own life situation and her roommate. I took it as a welcome sing that I can complain too. For few hours I thought we were making a bond. But then towards the end I had a sudden and unexpected feel of a cold shoulder (namely, the last six messages), which I ignored because I was desperate. But then the next day I learned I was right: she stopped talking.

Now, one of the things she told me during that "cold shoulder" phase at the very end is that maybe people don't talk to me for the same reason they don't talk to her roommate. Because her roommate can only talk about two topics: bad economic situation in a certain country (don't remember which one) and how waitresses get underpaid. And I too only want to talk about one topic.

I don't know her roommate, but I can tell you that in my case I am certainly interested in more than one topic. If I only was interested in one topic, then why would I be complaining about not having friends or a girlfriend? Clearly, I don't want a girlfriend to just talk about one topic for the rest of my life! If someone locks me in a cage, then I woudl be talking about one topic that I am locked in a cage. But the reason for this is that I ultimately want to get out of the cage so I can see the rest of the world in all its beauty. Thats what happens to me socially, and thats what she doesn't get.

Then the other thing that she said during her "cold shoulder" stage is an advice to practice spiritual gifts. In other words, she deflects my interest in forming a personal connection to just doing something non-personal. I am Christian, but it is frustrating to hear "just seek the lord" as a way of deflecting my desire to form relationships. Now, when you read that part when she gave me that advice, she said "if you could start helping people instead of talking at them". Now, notice how she used the word "at" instead of "to". But she did it in a slip-of-a-tongue type of way. She didn't say "you are talking at them instead of to them". Nope. She just used the word "at" as in by accident, hoping I won't notice. But lets dissect her message a little. There are THREE ways of interacting with people:

1) Talking to them

2) Talking at them

3) Helping them

What she told me is that instead of doing "2" I should do "3". But why did it never occur to her that I might do "1"? Was she assuming I was incapable of "1"?

Now, I know you are going to say "its not her its your behavior that prompted this reaction". But ask yourself this: how was I supposed to know she didn't appreciate being stuck on a single topic *until* she gave me the cold shoulder described above? If you read the chatlog, it sounds as if she was talking about her life problems too. So if she talks about life problems then I don't see why she wouldn't like me doing the same. Here is the chat log:

Quote:
MyselfHi, I like what you said in your profile, and I agree with you fellowship is important. I am going to church on weekly basis, but unfortunately people don't talk to me due to my Asperger which is frustrating. Just like you, I like cats and don't like dogs.

Her5 Jun, 2022 1:35 PMMy roommate has Asperger's. I took her in a bit over two years ago.5 Jun, 2022 1:37 PMBoard games would be a good way to start social interaction. It doesn't require eye contact, not extensive conversation. Plus, studies show that people can engage in conversation more freely and openly when they are not required to make eye contact.

Myself5 Jun, 2022 7:44 PMReadI guess board games won't be the kind of social interactions I am looking for. I would like the kind where I get to relate to the other person as a person, not as a character. I almost want to say I prefer the interactions face to face, except that I had long distance relationships so I can't exactly say that. But you get the drift.5 Jun, 2022 7:45 PMReadBy roommate do you mean you are at the university dorm, or what kind of roommate?

Her 5 Jun, 2022 7:48 PMI'm 39 with a master's degree. I own my own home. I rented out a room to a girl in need.

Myself 5 Jun, 2022 7:51 PMReadOh I see. I didn't mean to put you down. I am 42 yet still at school. So I weren't looking down on you or anything. I guess I misunderstood you because you called her a tenet rather than a roommate. Was she homeless before that?

Her 5 Jun, 2022 7:52 PMshe was about to be homeless. she had a roommate and a two-bedroom apartment where they split the lease. the roommate didn't pay any of the rent or utilities for long enough where this girl covered and drained all of her savings5 Jun, 2022 7:52 PMshe was pending eviction with maxed out credit cards and no savings5 Jun, 2022 7:53 PMadditionally the roommate's violent adult son came by and basically physically threatened this girl5 Jun, 2022 7:53 PMin fear for her safety, she had her sister come and pack up all her stuff to a storage unit and started couchsurfing for a couple of weeks. so, I guess she was homeless, at that point.5 Jun, 2022 7:53 PMI was in choir with her sister, and her sister knew that I had two vacant bedrooms a bonus room and full bathroom upstairs that weren't being used5 Jun, 2022 7:54 PMmy choir friend contacted me and asked if I could let her sister move into my vacant space. I didn't need the money, nor the roommate, but she needed help5 Jun, 2022 7:54 PMso, I gave her a bargain basement all inclusive rent fee and let her move in. she has paid off her credit cards, and is now working on medical debt. she's also been able to save up about $1,000 in savings5 Jun, 2022 7:55 PMshe's been a bit of a challenge for me to live with, because I wasn't aware of her Asperger's before she moved in. I grew up with depression and anxiety disorder in my family, but never exposed to anyone on the spectrum5 Jun, 2022 7:56 PMit's a very different thing to live with someone on the spectrum than it is to live with someone who has depression or anxiety disorder. I actually feel rather blessed by this experience, because it's making me appreciate my depression and anxiety ridden family, more.5 Jun, 2022 7:56 PMI'm making plans to take care of my sister in our retirement, because she has depression and anxiety disorder, and she'll never be able to retire without additional support. I wouldn't be able to support her in a separate household, so she'll have to live with me. in the past I would have never even considered letting her live with me. after the experience of living with my roommate, I know that I can live with my sister.

Myself 5 Jun, 2022 8:09 PMReadI am glad you were able to help her out. Its horrible that she was living with someone physically abusive. I never was exposed to physical abuse but I had some bad dreams at night where I was and was running off somewhere, looking for an escape, I guess what you described reminds me of a bad dream with a good ending. So how come her roommate didn't want to pay her share? Is it because she looked down on her due to her Asperger? And why didn't she sue her roommate to get her money back afterwords?

Her 5 Jun, 2022 8:16 PMI think it was just one of those situations where somebody found somebody gullible that they could take advantage of, and being a horrible person, they felt justified in doing so.5 Jun, 2022 8:17 PMour world is full of sin and evil. people are not inherently good. we are inherently sinners. just look at how cruel and awful young children are. they have to be taught and trained on how to be good citizens and friends. they have to be taught how to share and be kind. this individual was apparently taught none of these things5 Jun, 2022 8:18 PMwith regard to suing the bad roommate, my roommate is rather immature and a poor planner. I think it may have to do with where she's at on the spectrum. she has no idea how to even locate the bad roommate, at this point. therefore she couldn't serve a suit

Myself 5 Jun, 2022 8:25 PMReadI can totally relate to what you said about kids. I was horribly bullied in school back in Russia, like kids were physically kicking me unless I do what they want. I remember one day when they asked me if I was hungry I said no, they said "I don't believe you, you are hungry, so go eat grass" and they forced me to eat grass. And that was just one example of several others. It was horrible. But I left Russia at the 8-th grade and in America I wasn't bullied nearly as much, I guess in America the discipline is stricter. Yes I remember three bullies in America, but they never physically hit me and they never made me eat grass or anything of the like. They were just making cruel jokes. All bullying stopped when I started college. That is probably why throughout childhoold and adolescent I didn't want any friends cause my experience of interaction was all negative. But then after I spent few years without bullying I realized I do want friends after all, and then I realized that others are the ones who don't want to be my friends. So as a kid I was bullied as an adult I am ostracized. Which is worse? Good question. From point of view of physical safety, childhood was worse. But from emotional point of view propbably adulthood is worse. In case of bullying I would stop caring the moment I get away from them, but in case of ostracism I can't really get away from it, the thoughts follow me and I keep recapping all the interactions that lead to ostracism any given time. I wish I could escape my situation somewhere, kind of like your roommate did. Just don't know where.

Her 5 Jun, 2022 8:32 PMshe escapes via internet chat rooms5 Jun, 2022 8:32 PMspecifically she chats with folks from Lithuania, Ukraine, and Russia area.5 Jun, 2022 8:33 PMI was bullied as a child, with words and taunts. my sister and I were emotionally sensitive and cried easily. so, we were endlessly picked on.5 Jun, 2022 8:33 PMwhen I was 17 and in a video cam chat room, one of the first internet trolls I ever encountered said something so viciously horrible to me, that it flipped a switch for me mentally and emotionally5 Jun, 2022 8:33 PMthis troll told me that I was so ugly and fat I ought to want to kill myself. how could I possibly want to live looking the way that I did5 Jun, 2022 8:34 PMthat just made me go, "why would I even care what some complete stranger thinks of me? even these people at school and around me in high school and all the other places that called me names or picked on me, why did their opinion matter?"5 Jun, 2022 8:35 PMthat's when I realized that only a few opinions actually matter. God, mine, and maybe my most intimate family and friends. beyond that, I just didn't want to harm anyone else or be rude or unkind. however, if they thought unkind things about me, that shouldn't matter.5 Jun, 2022 8:35 PMit wasn't until 6 years later that I found out that this style of thought is referred to as cognitive therapy. people actually practice and train their minds to think that way in order to get over emotional damage.5 Jun, 2022 8:36 PMthere's a gene in my family that's been linked with depression and migraines. my mother has both. my sister has depression and anxiety disorder. I have migraines. I feel so blessed to not be struggling with depression. I firmly believe that that is because of my reaction to that internet troll. God works in mysterious ways to bless us and grow us and make us stronger5 Jun, 2022 8:38 PMhe may have allowed the bullying that you experienced as a child in order to show you the value of the university life. you said that the bullying stopped in University and it sounds like you were happier, before you started to feel ostracized. however, consider that the ostracization that you feel could be benefiting you. it frees up your time and attention to focus on your studies and to improve yourself and turn you into an influential researcher or professor one day.5 Jun, 2022 8:39 PMpersonally, I live a fairly isolated life out of choice. I love the silence to be able to read, listen to audiobooks, listen to podcasts, surf reddit, watch TV, or watch movies. I get together with my best friend that I've known since we were six weeks old once a month. I go to church every Sunday morning and choir every Wednesday evening, and prayer services once a month. I used to have a board game group that I met with weekly, but it fell apart when the board game shop that we congregated at shut down. they moved to the meetups to a restaurant further away from where I live and at a time that is inconvenient.5 Jun, 2022 8:40 PMI have two cats, two friends that I'm close to, for colleagues that I get along with super well, a ton of colleagues who respect me and my work product, and I'm close to my sister and parents. that's enough for me5 Jun, 2022 8:41 PM*four colleagues5

Myself Jun, 2022 8:54 PMReadUnlike your friend, I don't think internet chat rooms are healthy escapes. I liked internet at first, but then I realized it is very addictive and it compromises my studies, and its not real. I wish I could find an escape away from the internet somehwere. Such a walk into some place where I feel totally accepted, and never have to leave. Just like your roommate found your house or something like that. I guess it is not realistic since I am at school, but one can always hope. I wish I could go to a different school maybe? Except that I was in a number of schools and weren't happy anywhere. So I wish I could find yet another place to make me happy. With the internet troll thing, my experience was the exact oppoite to yours. It was the internet troll -- that I encountered at the age of 21 -- that made me realize I DO care about what people think. What is ironic is that I encountered said troll on Asperger mailing list, which is now defunct. Because you see, before that mailing list, the bullies could bully me all day, but then when I get home I would focus on physics. But after that mailing list, I myself became obsessed with wanting friends, and then I can never focus on physics: I spent hours on dating site in vain. So my academic progress was better when I was bullied as opposed to ostracized. When I was bullied, I learned calculus at 13 (since when I was at home learning calculus I wasn't disracted by any thoughts about any bullies, I just didn't care). But then after I felt ostracized at 21 onward it took me several years to learn what others learn in a year. I guss maybe thats not all of it. The other part of the reason is I might have reached what is called "gifted studnt roadblock" whre I used to everything being easy and so I couldn't handle when it was no longer as easy. But still, me spnding too much time on dating sites was part of it too. I am sure if it wasn't for that one troll at a mailing list I would have done much better.5 Jun, 2022 8:56 PMReadAlso, you did mention a few friends, you just don't have too many. But in my case I don't even have a few. If I could have a small circle such as the one you described, I would feel so happy, I could just stay tehre and feel like tey "protect" me from the outside world. But no I dont have any such protection since I don't have anyone that cares, other than my mom, and my mom is too overbearding which is the opposit problem. So I have to choose between my mom that is over controling and everyone else who don't care at all.

Her 5 Jun, 2022 9:03 PMThat's sad. I know what you mean about the gifted student block, though. from the moment I was diagnosed with attention deficit disorder in third grade and treated with ritalin, I went from a failing student to an honor student. I breezed through the remainder of school, except to stumble in seventh grade when my doctor thought I was cured of add, because it was so early in diagnosis and treatment. if you take an ADD kid off the drugs, that's not a good idea. Anyway, middle school and high school was a total breeze. I graduated young, because I was put into school a year early. I had been born premature, and there was a risk of mental retardation from the oxygen they used. So, they wanted some time to evaluate me early.5 Jun, 2022 9:03 PMas a result, I graduated high school at 17 years old. this was not a good recipe for starting college at 17. I was miserable that first year of college and ended up dropping out5 Jun, 2022 9:04 PMI worked in a call center and a pizza delivery place for three and a half years, and supported myself in a little apartment where I lived paycheck to paycheck. One day I ran into somebody from high school who was on the exact track for his life that everyone would have expected. It was like ABCD this is who we knew you'd be. It made me reevaluate my life and where I was at. Where I was was not where I wanted to be.5 Jun, 2022 9:05 PMI went back to school, because I knew I wanted to be an accountant. I had now learned how hard it was to live without a degree, and how hard it was to earn the money. My parents had spent all of the college money on my sister, in the intervening years, and there was none left for me. this meant that I was going back to school using debt, and I would have to pay it off. Now that I knew how hard it was to earn money, I was more diligent about getting bang for my buck.5 Jun, 2022 9:06 PMI set a bunch of personal rules to make my return to college the most successful that it could be. I took a minimum of 15 credit hours per semester, because at that time they could only charge you for the first 12 hours, and anything after that was free. For every class that I took, I had to find something, anything, that I could point to and say that makes this class valuable to my future. This was especially important for core classes.5 Jun, 2022 9:07 PMNext, it was mandatory that I find something, anything, about each and every class to get genuinely excited about. It could be something related to the topic, something related to the teacher, or a friend that I made in class.5 Jun, 2022 9:08 PMNext, I set a standard of a 4.0 GPA. I knew that this was achievable if it was set as a rule, but that if I had any slack, like a 3.5 GPA requirement, I would only meet the dead minimum. By setting the requirement for myself at the top, I had to push myself to achieve.5 Jun, 2022 9:09 PMFinally, if I was paying for classes, I needed to actually get something out of them. that meant that taking one of those easy a classes that you breeze through and don't actually learn anything was completely unacceptable. If I heard of a class that was an easy a in that manner, I was not to take it.5 Jun, 2022 9:09 PMGoing back to school with those rules in mind created a very different college experience. Once again, I was a big fish in a little pond academically. I excelled in everything, and every professor wanted me to switch my major to their topic of study, because they've never had such a passionate student.5 Jun, 2022 9:10 PMWhen I was getting ready to graduate with my BBA with a concentration and accounting, I didn't want to go back to the real world. I knew how hard the real world was, and I was enjoying school. therefore, I took the GMAT and went to grad school.5 Jun, 2022 9:11 PMThat's where the trouble started. My undergraduate school was small, public, 30 to 40 people per classroom, non-traditional, with older students, and I knew the professors personally. They were known to stop me in the hallways and ask about my sister or my parents. Our education style was based upon essays, research papers, quizzes, and tests.5 Jun, 2022 9:14 PMThis was not the case for the graduate school I went to. The graduate school I attended was large with class sizes in excess of 100 students. You never had the same professor twice, so you didn't have a chance to get to know them out their teaching style. The education style was based on case studies and presentations, especially group presentations. I had never done a case study in my life, and had done very few presentations. I felt very out of place, because I was 3 to 4 years older than all of the other students, because it was a traditional school. Therefore, I had difficulty making friends and fitting in. that resulted in not having a good pool of people to pick from for the group projects. I ended up getting a lumped in with the foreign exchange students, because I felt just as foreign in the school as they did.5 Jun, 2022 9:15 PMI worked harder than I've ever worked in my life busting my butt in those classes, and I felt like I was drowning. I ended up graduating with a 3.957, because I got an A- in one class. I was so disappointed, because my previous school didn't have a plus and minus grading system. and A was an A was an A, and that was a 4.0. the thing is that all of my peers were going out and drinking and partying all of the time and seem to just be breathing through the classes. Whereas, I was spending every waking minutes studying constantly.5 Jun, 2022 9:17 PMThe sad thing is, none of what I actually learned in school is used in my career. I rely more on my geography, and algebra lessons from high school as well as my Google skills and my ability to read visual basic and SQL code.5 Jun, 2022 9:19 PMsorry for talking your ear off. I need to get to bed, because I have to be up at 6:45. maybe we can chat later

Myself 5 Jun, 2022 9:24 PMReadSorry for taking a while to read what you wrote, but I really do appreciate you sharing. I am the same way by the way I also like to describe my life in detail5 Jun, 2022 9:25 PMReadAs far as GPA being 3.95, this is an excellent GPA, you shouldn't worry.5 Jun, 2022 9:27 PMReadI never had 4.0. Back in high school I had 3.9, but that is becaue I was taking a bunch of college level math and physics, and the way they count those towards high school GPA is they add extra point if it is in A or B range, so they count B as 4 and A as 5. Well, since only math and physics is what I took in college and the rest I took in high school, the high school classes were counted with A being 4 and B being 3. So I still got more As tahn Cs (I only had 3 Cs in high school). But the point is that I had a lot more Bs than As.5 Jun, 2022 9:28 PMReadIn college I continued with that same pattern of having more Bs than As, but this time I didn't have this kind of miscounting so my college GPA was just below 3.3. It was probably ike 3.29 or something, I remember this because 3.3 is the least needed for honor student ad I was just a bit short of that5 Jun, 2022 9:29 PMReadIn grad school in Minnesota and Michigan they like to inflate grades so I got around 3.5, I don't remember if it was slightly higher or slightly lower, I believe slightly higher but I won't be too sure5 Jun, 2022 9:29 PMReadBut then in Misissippi and New Mexico grad school I got 3.9 both times so that is when I in fact started getting mostly As5 Jun, 2022 9:30 PMReadBut all in all, I really don't care: because remember how I said in high school I was way ahead yet was getting mostly Bs5 Jun, 2022 9:30 PMReadThe reason being that making stupid arithmetic mistakes would get me a B with easy classes5 Jun, 2022 9:30 PMReadand conversely with hard classes they would give me an A even if I don't really understand the material simply because other students are doing even worse5 Jun, 2022 9:31 PMReadthe prupose of grades is to get into higher ranking schools5 Jun, 2022 9:31 PMReadso ultimately what matters is that I used to be in Minnesota and Michigan (high ranking) and now I am in New Mexico (low ranking). THAT is what bothers me. The fact that my grades are better can't make up for it5 Jun, 2022 9:32 PMReadand what bothers me even more is my age: if I were to be at the exact spot where I am, but I was 20, that would be impressive, but being 42 still in school looks bad5 Jun, 2022 9:33 PMReadThere were a couple of times here in New Mexico when I thought I was in danger of getting a C (never actually happened) and I was thiking to myself "maybe I want a C anyway, that would remind me of when I was 20, and everything was so much better"5 Jun, 2022 9:33 PMReadBut, believe it or not, I very much DO care about my career. My career in theoretical physics was my life time goal since I was 95 Jun, 2022 9:34 PMReadIts just that by now I know that my ultimate success is measured not by my grades but by how many papers I get published, and in what level journals5 Jun, 2022 9:34 PMReadwhat is ultimately stopping me is that my work is unconventional and doesn't get published5 Jun, 2022 9:35 PMReadI have around 30 papers on arxiv.org but only 5 of them have been published in journals5 Jun, 2022 9:36 PMReadIf someone were to offer me a deal that my GPA were to switch from 3.9 to 3.0 at the exchange of getting all the rest of my papers published, I would gladly take it5 Jun, 2022 9:37 PMReadBelow 3.0 is iffy because that would cause me to get kicked out of grad school. But still... I already have one ph.d. from MIchigan I don't need another one, its just me being desperate trying to stay in academia. So even if I could get 1.0 GPA and get kicked out, at the exchange of getting ALL my work published, I think this would be worth it too5 Jun, 2022 9:37 PMReadbut you know what would be even more worth it? To be 20 again. Then I would gladly lose all my publications since I would have all the life in front of me to work on it

Her 5 Jun, 2022 9:39 PM20 years old was a miserable time for me. that's when I was emotionally recovering from my ex-fiance dumping me and marrying my next door neighbor on the day we set for our wedding. I was working in a call center and barely scraping by to make a living. that was in the three and a half years that I had dropped out

Myself 5 Jun, 2022 9:39 PMReadI was stuck on trying to understand grassmann numbers, thats what I threw a lot of years on. FINALLY I got that paper published. I am glad THAT ONE SPECIFIC PAPER was published so that those years weren't for nothing. But at the same time I also realize that it was a big mistake I went to that route. I would have been better off NOT getting overfocused on one thing for so many years, since it led only to 1 paper. But since I can't get those 20 years back, I am glad it is published. At leat its not for nothing

Her 5 Jun, 2022 9:40 PMmy 30s have been the best time of my life. I've had the most peace and serenity, and professional accomplishment in my 30s. I was even finally promoted to a manager 4 weeks ago.5 Jun, 2022 9:41 PMCome to think of it, I think my first ever boyfriend is in New Mexico in the field of Physics or Astronomy. I can't remember which.5 Jun, 2022 9:43 PMWe dated in Elementary School, and he broke up with me in Middle School, when he realized that I was looking for the dating to actually start being real you know with like slow dances and kisses. He wasn't ready for that sort of thing. We ended up being really good friends in High School.5 Jun, 2022 9:47 PMJust looked it up, and it's astrophysics. Also, got a big surprise. He's married... to a man. No wonder he freaked out at the possibility of kissing at 12 years old.

Myself 5 Jun, 2022 9:50 PMReadI am so sorry you went through such a heartbreak5 Jun, 2022 9:50 PMReadwhy did he choose the date of your wedding anniversary to marry the other woman? Did he do it on purpose to hurt you even more?

Her 5 Jun, 2022 9:50 PMLooking back, it seems a little more obvious. I can't remember him dating anyone in high school.

Myself 5 Jun, 2022 9:51 PMoh, you're talking about the ex fiance thing

Her 5 Jun, 2022 9:51 PMyeah, that was bad. I don't think their wedding date was an intentional slight, but just inconsiderate5 Jun, 2022 9:51 PMthat whole story belongs on three separate episodes of Jerry Springer5 Jun, 2022 9:52 PMthe summation is that I met him when he was married to a woman who became my best friend, and I began dating a man who turned out to be his best friend. the four of us became really close and hung out together a ton.5 Jun, 2022 9:53 PMhis wife cheated on him with 19 different men, and when my next door neighbor was the one that told him all of that, he filed for divorce. meanwhile, I was dating his best friend simply because no one else had asked me, and the guy was nice. when he started to fall in love with me, and I realized that I didn't have those kinds of feelings for him, I broke it off.5 Jun, 2022 9:53 PMwith the ex-wife / girl best friend's permission, I began dating him. he cheated on me with his ex-wife, somebody from back in his hometown in texas, and my next door neighbor before he left me for my next door neighbor.5 Jun, 2022 9:54 PMafter they were married, and he was deployed for a year, his new wife/my next door neighbor cheated on him and got pregnant by her boyfriend.5 Jun, 2022 9:54 PMthey got a divorce, and she ended up with the ugliest daughter I've ever seen. her daughter looked exactly like her father, and he was no catch. she went on to have three children with that man before marrying him 5 years later.

Myself 5 Jun, 2022 10:10 PMReadIn my case the whole mailing list thing also started with a heartbreak created by someone gay. Here is what happened. So I was 21, and there was a woman on a mailing list, Sarah Roberts, who was 28. Now there was another woman on a mailing list, Dawn Prince Hugh who was gay. In any case, Sarah Roberts was engaged (to a man of course, she was straight) but that didnt matter to me one way or the other because I was much younger than my age so I saw myself as a kid. In any case, like I mentioned, that mailing list was for people with Asperger. So since it was my first time encounter with people with Asperger I asked them to describe their Asperger so I could compare myself to them. Sarah described herself in a way that I felt I was "just like her" and that drew me closer to her. So I was giving her an advice how to handle better certan situations. Dawn, on the other hand, accused me of "making a hierarchy on the list" when I asked people to describe themselves. But then it got worse. So what happened is I made a different post where I was speculating about race vs IQ vs brain size vs autism. Basically I said that Jews rock during prayers and have strict religious rules because they are more prone to autism. And for that same reason they have bigger brain: because of some studies that show atuistics have bigger brain. And so bigger brain correlates with higher IQ not directly but rather through causing shaddow autism that would create mini-savant abilities. Blacks, on the other hand, are the opposite to that. Since blacks have smaller brains than whites, they are "less autistic" than whites, which is why whites are smarter than blacks since autisitcs are smarter. But since autistics are bad at sports, that also explains why Jews are bad at sports and blacks are good at sports. In any case, the part that Dawn jumped into is "blacks have smaller brains and lower IQ", since that is what is traditionally thought of as racist, and she didnt care if I was balancing it out with any other statements. Now, if she were to attack me JUST for that, it wouldn't have hurt me that much since thats what I expected. But what Dawn said that DID hurt me was "I can't believe you told Sarah to think before she speaks (the evidence of which I couldn't find) you better follow your own advice" Because you see, even though Sarah was engged to someone else, I had soft spot there, and Dawn literally hit me on that soft spot. Now, the next thing I wanted to know is whether Sarah ever came to my defense or not. And I have no idea: because I was banned from the list shortly after that. Then when I was graduating I tried to join that list under a different name, but the list owner detected it was me and threatened to contact my new school if I ever try to subscribe again. But you see, the way she detected it was me is by the fact that my introduction was long winded. But my introduction talked about the way I was bullied. So it was like I was vulnerable, talking about being bullied, and she just hit me right when I tried to open up to people. So that whole thing really hurt me. And then I was obsessing about that list and Sarah Roberts for months. But then I told myself "maybe it has nothing to do with either Sarah or that list, maybe its the fact that I dont have friends in general, and so I idolized that list simply because it happened to be the only place where I did have friends". And so I decided to look elsewhere for friends. Now, I am born Jewish (I came to Christ when I was 22 -- a year after the above). So my mom kept trying to get me to go to Hillel (a club for Jewish students) ever since I started college at 18. I was alwasy telling her I don't have time because I need to do physics. But then, at 21, I decided to go ahead and go to Hillel, maybe this will help me to get over that list. But no, going to Hillel only made it worse. So what happened was that I was desperately trying to have conversation and was asking them questions such as what exact classes you take or why since I didnt know how else to continue, and I kept failing to keep conversation going. But since I was socially naive it never occurred to me they didn't like me. I was like "that mailing list is where they didn't like me, while here I am just having a bad luck with finding a replacement". But then the director of Hillel clled me to talk to her and she said there were compliaings about me from 5 different people. She said that the complaints are that I smell and that my conversation style is accusitory. She also said "when people don't like you, they won't say anything, they will just go to a different part of the room". And then I thought to myself "oh, so here is my answer as to what Sarah Roberts think of me; I thought she is neutral but now I see she dislikes me since she never reached out to me after I was banned". THere is a "birthright Israel" trip that is free for everyone born Jwish, and she didn't want me to go on that trip becaue of my social difficultis. I did end up going, through a different organization, at 26 instead of 21. But the fact that I didn't go at 21 for the above reason left its scar. And also what she told me about people not talking to me actually not liking me rather than being neutral, that is what made me so desperate to find people to talk to me, so I spent hours on nd on dating sites, and feeling all the more hurt since they didn't talk to me. And I could have used that time for studies. In any case IF ONLY I didn't go to that mailing list, I wouldn't have been going to Hillel either (or even if my mom were to somehow drag me there, I surely wouldn't have cared what anyone thinks). So I feel like that stupid mailing list is what ruined my whole adult life.

Her 5 Jun, 2022 10:20 PMJust a note, sometimes people don't talk to you because they're not interested in the same topics that you are. I've learned that folks that are on the spectrum tend to focus in on a few topics that are passions for them. due to the lack of your ability to read social cues, you don't pick up on disinterest on the part of other parties. Since they could care less about your topic of conversation, and it's all you want to talk about (if you're anything like my roommate), they just try to get away5 Jun, 2022 10:22 PMShe goes on and on and on about the socioeconomic conditions of Lithuania or bad tipping culture at the restaurant she worked at. I could care less about both topics. I've had to learn how to be firmly vocal when I'm not interested. most people shy away from doing that, because that would be tactless and rude. They think they're being polite by walking away.5 Jun, 2022 10:24 PMAdditionally, I found that folks who are on the spectrum tend to have a very self-focused point of view and do tend to blame others for most of the problems in their life. While these may be true statements, it comes off as being constantly accusatory and blaming others and never taking responsibility. That can be very frustrating to a listener. These conversations tend to be very negative, and that's not enjoyable to hear.5 Jun, 2022 10:25 PMTry talking about topics that are positive or about something that you're proud to have accomplished. Alternately, listen for topics that others are talking about, that they are excited about. See if you can add something to that topic without veering it away to something of your personal interest.5 Jun, 2022 10:25 PMokay, it's dangerously late and I need to go to bed. I'm signing off

Myself 5 Jun, 2022 10:26 PMReadThe only example of topic of interst I would likely to dwell on is the one that has to do with myself, my isolation, etc.5 Jun, 2022 10:27 PMReadAs far as topics that aren't related to myself, I can sound long winded even if they aren't my special interest5 Jun, 2022 10:28 PMReadFor example, Sikh religion is as far from my special interest as it gets (the ONLY time I even thought of it was literally a week ago, ONLY to answer someone's comment) yet my answer was really long winded and they started getting disracted5 Jun, 2022 10:30 PMReadin that particular case someone said there was religion up north where they carry knife and believe in one God. I knew it was probably Sikh since I did three postdocs in India, the third one in the the exact northern state they probably tlked about. But then they dismissed what I said with "you were down south though and thats north" well yes I was down south: first two postdocs I was south the third I was north. But they didn't have enough attention span to hear this, so that is when I started spelling things out and repeating myself over and over and I am sure it sounded like an autistic liking to repeat the special interest topic. But it wasn't special interest topic since I wasn't thinking of it outside that conversation. It is just me not being able to communicate so I try to repeat myself since I feel like people do'nt hear me otherwise5 Jun, 2022 10:31 PMReadHowever, when it comes to topics that ARE related to me, then yes I am obsessing about them. But this feels circular: I obsess about people not liking me and they don't like me because I obsess about it. So if only they were to like me maybe this circle would be broken5 Jun, 2022 10:32 PMReadNow, are there topics OTHER THAN "people don't like me" that I obsess about? I guess. But I am not going to bring them up if I know others aren't intersted in them.5 Jun, 2022 10:33 PMReadAs far as blaming you are very right, I do sound like I blame others. But I feel like its the reality: because people look down at me due to my Asperger. So maybe if instead of Asperger I was, say, obese, maybe that would have caused me to be blaming too5 Jun, 2022 10:36 PMReadLet me give you an example. Here on Christian Dating For Free, 6 years ago, one woman named Karla, asked me if I am capable of falling in love because Sheldon coudln't, or if I am okay with holding hands. Well, I never watched Big Bang Theory but I know it is supposed to be a joke so why judge me for that? And as far as hand holding, YES I like hand holding. But, sadly, I never held anyone's hand in ages. Why? Because nobody likes me. So I know it sounds blaming but the fact of a matter is I want to live a normal life and experince normal human connection. I am being deprived of it because people judge me for my Asperger. Thats why I am bitter.5 Jun, 2022 10:43 PMReadAnd the other thing is that the main problm is not that people walk away when I talk about one topic but a lot more that they don't approach me on the first place. Do you think it is because the people with whom I did go in circles warned everyone else not to approach me?

Myself again 6 Jun, 2022 6:22 AMReadLet me guess. You were probably upset at me that I didn’t responded at all to what you said about your ex’s and just went on about myself. But yiu were passive aggressive about it: instead of saying YOU felt frustrated HERE AND NOW that I just ignored something yiu said, you told me that OTHERS might be frustrated about it, thus covering a frustration with well meaning advice. But alright, let’s not be blaming. Part of it is my own fault because I am so desperate that I just didn’t want to hear the criticism so I just told myself to take it literally even though I knew not to. And by doing so I made myself look like a fool since I actually replied, pretending as if I was taking you literally, all because I was desperate not to admit you were rejecting me. But now that I finally did admit it, let’s address the actual issue. No, I did not mean to ignore when you talked about ex’s. I wanted to talk about both topics, your past and my past. I was just trying to multitask between talking and writing thesis so I was thinking “I gave her this part of my essay about my past, let her respond to it while I am typing another paragraph in my thesis, and then I will get back to responding to that other thing”. But then when yiu turned cold instead I got desperate.6 Jun, 2022 6:26 AMReadI would respond now but it doesn’t seem like you will welcome it any more since now you will assume I don’t care and only responding to please you. And it’s super frustrating when people make assumptions like that and never giving me a chance

Her 6 Jun, 2022 6:27 AMactually, I wasn't upset. I genuinely was talking about others. I do also find it frustrating that all you want to talk about is negative topics, but I actually didn't notice or care that you didn't talk about my ex. I don't like to obsess over him.6 Jun, 2022 6:27 AMhe's leaving was a blessing. I ended up going back to school, which I wouldn't have done if I had married him, and I went back to church, which I wouldn't have done if I had married him. God works in wonderful ways6 Jun, 2022 6:30 AMhey, most people, including me, don't want to invite unending negativity into their lives. find a way to focus on positive. think about something happy and uplifting. even if you don't feel loved and respected by those around you, God loves you. He knew you deeply in your heart, in your soul, everything about you before you were even created.6 Jun, 2022 6:31 AMHe has a purpose for you. Shine as a light for his love and try counting the blessings in your life to focus on the positive.

Myself 6 Jun, 2022 6:32 AMReadAs far as talking just about negative topics it’s circular: I get rejected because I am negative and I am negative because I get rejected. If only people could respond to my negativity in a supportive ways rather than rejecting ways, it would break that circle. On a different note, if yiu were to tell me something bothers yiu I would change. So telling me directly and giving me a chance to change is better than simply leaving. In your case I genuinely didn’t know you didn’t like negative topics since you were talking about some of your own.

Her 6 Jun, 2022 6:32 AMBe God's hands and feet. Serve others. If you spend time serving people and helping people, rather than talking at them, you may find that you make friends. Get a spiritual gifts assessment to identify what spiritual gifts you've been granted. when we use our spiritual gifts to glorify god, the rewards come back upon us.6 Jun, 2022 6:33 AMMy gifts are helps and teaching. I use servant leadership to help others. I enjoy cooking, cleaning, and running errands for elderly. I love listening to them talk and listening to them tell stories of their childhood and their past. They enjoy company and they love a listening ear.6 Jun, 2022 6:34 AMAdditionally, I teach every opportunity I get. I teach at work by running training programs and sharing knowledge with colleagues, and I'm going through training to join our children's ministry to teach children's Sunday School.6 Jun, 2022 6:34 AMBecause these are my spiritual gifts, when I use them, it makes me happy, even though I'm working hard to use them. At the same time, I'm glorifying God in the lives of others for whom I make an impact.6 Jun, 2022 6:35 AMnow, I'm not ignoring you, but I'm starting work. I will not be answering the messages until 6:00 or 7:00 p.m. Central standard Time


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As you can see from that chatlog, its not obvious at all that she didn't want to talk about negative topics, since she talked about it just as much as I did.

What "does" seem a bit more obvoius is how, right after she talked about her heartbreak, I responded by talking about a mailing list, which might seem self centered because mailing list did not involve a romance yet I equated the two. And, indeed, her cold shoulder occurred immediately after that.

However, if you keep reading further, I actually asked her if that was the reason, and she said it wasn't. Instead, she said it was the negative topics that bothered her. But that is surprising. I thought she was contributing to negative topics just as much as I did?



Sweetleaf
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14 Sep 2022, 2:11 pm

Not getting where she gave you cold shoulder. What by not responding before 6:22 am when you sent her a message at 10:26 the day before?

It is not cold shoulder if you send someone a message later at night and they haven't responded by the early hours of the morning. More likely they went to bed and haven't gotten up yet.

Also, I don't really get the impression she was interested in dating you seems perhaps she was sympathetic and trying to be friendly to you.

Still don't think she really gave you cold shoulder at any point, but it could feel that way if you thought you were hitting it off with her romantically and she just saw you as an online acquaintance to talk to.


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14 Sep 2022, 2:28 pm

Also FYI this from within you'r conversation is extremely racist.

Quote:
Also though Blacks, on the other hand, are the opposite to that. Since blacks have smaller brains than whites, they are "less autistic" than whites, which is why whites are smarter than blacks since autisitcs are smarter. But since autistics are bad at sports, that also explains why Jews are bad at sports and blacks are good at sports. In any case, the part that Dawn jumped into is "blacks have smaller brains and lower IQ", since that is what is traditionally thought of as racist, and she didnt care if I was balancing it out with any other statements. Now, if she were to attack me JUST for that, it wouldn't have hurt me that much since thats what I expected.


Saying racist things is not a good way to make friends. That is why you got rejected from that mailing list, not because those people were mean bullies.


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14 Sep 2022, 3:55 pm

I'd hold off on telling anyone about Asperger's or autism, if at all. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I presume that's why she talked about the roommate.


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r00tb33r
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14 Sep 2022, 3:56 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Also FYI this from within you'r conversation is extremely racist.
Quote:
Also though Blacks, on the other hand, are the opposite to that. Since blacks have smaller brains than whites, they are "less autistic" than whites, which is why whites are smarter than blacks since autisitcs are smarter. But since autistics are bad at sports, that also explains why Jews are bad at sports and blacks are good at sports. In any case, the part that Dawn jumped into is "blacks have smaller brains and lower IQ", since that is what is traditionally thought of as racist, and she didnt care if I was balancing it out with any other statements. Now, if she were to attack me JUST for that, it wouldn't have hurt me that much since thats what I expected.


Saying racist things is not a good way to make friends. That is why you got rejected from that mailing list, not because those people were mean bullies.

Whoa. Yeah, um.


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rse92
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14 Sep 2022, 4:14 pm

I suggest you could better make use of your time and be a happier person rather than ruminate about an 18 hour long chat with a girl half your age on a website that occurred over three months ago.



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14 Sep 2022, 6:32 pm

General rule of thumb:

1) avoid phrases like "(insert any race) is/does (insert description)."

By "talking at" she meant you were not responding to her. When a human complains, the appropriate response is empathy ("I'm sorry you experienced that.")

Also, this (best to just move on):

rse92 wrote:
I suggest you could better make use of your time and be a happier person rather than ruminate about an 18 hour long chat with a girl half your age on a website that occurred over three months ago.


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14 Sep 2022, 6:48 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Also FYI this from within you'r conversation is extremely racist.
Quote:
Also though Blacks, on the other hand, are the opposite to that. Since blacks have smaller brains than whites, they are "less autistic" than whites, which is why whites are smarter than blacks since autisitcs are smarter. But since autistics are bad at sports, that also explains why Jews are bad at sports and blacks are good at sports. In any case, the part that Dawn jumped into is "blacks have smaller brains and lower IQ", since that is what is traditionally thought of as racist, and she didnt care if I was balancing it out with any other statements. Now, if she were to attack me JUST for that, it wouldn't have hurt me that much since thats what I expected.


Saying racist things is not a good way to make friends. That is why you got rejected from that mailing list, not because those people were mean bullies.


All those statements aren't just "traditionally thought of as racist," they ARE racist. As Sweatleaf said, not a good way to make friends (except maybe at a KKK meeting).


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14 Sep 2022, 7:49 pm

rse92 wrote:
I suggest you could better make use of your time and be a happier person rather than ruminate about an 18 hour long chat with a girl half your age on a website that occurred over three months ago.


I am not sure where you got an idea she was half my age. If you read the 4-th message you will see she is 39. If you read the 5-th message you will see I am 42.



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14 Sep 2022, 7:59 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Not getting where she gave you cold shoulder. What by not responding before 6:22 am when you sent her a message at 10:26 the day before?

It is not cold shoulder if you send someone a message later at night and they haven't responded by the early hours of the morning. More likely they went to bed and haven't gotten up yet.


The follow up to that is that the next day I discovered she blocked me. Now, I have two accounts on that site, precisely for that purpose (I created the other account when someone else blocked me, long before she did). So I messaged her from the other account asking her why did she block me. And she re-iterated that it was because of negativity. She also said that she consulted with her roommate (the very one who has Asperger) and her friend said that she would have stopped that conversation far sooner than she did (again, because of negativity). Which, again, makes me ask:

a) I thought she talked about negative things just as much as I did. Why did she stop talking to me as if it was me who was negative?

b) I thought her roommate only talks about low pay for waitresses and bad economic situation on a certain country. In other words, I thought her roommate is a lot more weird than I am, and she is judging me based off of her roommate. But now all of a sudden its her roommate who says she should stop talking to me. So now its me who is weirder than her roommate?! What a surprise!! !

Sweetleaf wrote:
Also, I don't really get the impression she was interested in dating you seems perhaps she was sympathetic and trying to be friendly to you.

Still don't think she really gave you cold shoulder at any point, but it could feel that way if you thought you were hitting it off with her romantically and she just saw you as an online acquaintance to talk to.


Well, since this is a dating site, its reasonable to assume that people there at least consider dating.

Also put it in perspective. The vast majority of people don't respond to me at all. She did. So if, after a month of dead silence on a dating site, someone finally talks to me for hours, then of course I can at least hope she is interested in dating me.



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14 Sep 2022, 8:07 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
I'd hold off on telling anyone about Asperger's or autism, if at all. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I presume that's why she talked about the roommate.


Yes, its true that my telling about Asperger is the reason she talked about the roommate. But here is the timeline:

1) On the first message I told her about Asperger

2) On the second message she talked about the roommate

3) For the subsequent several hours, we were both talking about negative experiences in our lives

4) After those few hours she gave me a cold shoulder because *I* only talk about negativity (never mind the fact that she did just as much)

Now, you are saying that 1 caused 4. But the question is: why didn't 1 preclude 3? If 1 were to push her away, then she wouldn't bother spending hours on "3" would she?

Or are you saying that mentioning Asperger causes indirect damage rather than direct one? As in, 1 causes 2 and 3, and then 3 causes 4?

But, again, if 1 were to cause 2 and 3, then 2 and 3 would be our *common* topic of conversation, *not* me pushing things on her. So then why would it ever cause 4?

Or was she thinking that I "forced" her to talk about 2 and 3 by talking about "1", and thus she was resenting it? But if so, how exactly did I force her? Just because I mentioned I have Asperger, this didn't "force" her to talk at length about her roommate. She *chose* to. So she can't blame me for this, can she?



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14 Sep 2022, 8:13 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Saying racist things is not a good way to make friends. That is why you got rejected from that mailing list, not because those people were mean bullies.


As far as mailing list, I know that is why I got rejected. I still think its unfair though because I believe in free thought, racist or not. But that is a different subject.

As far as this thread is concerned, I am not asking why I was rejected on that mailing list. Instead, I am asking why I was rejected by her. This being the case,

a) She never said she rejected me for racism. She said she rejected me for negativity, which is completely different.

b) I didn't tell "her" anything racist: I only admitted to having said something racist 20 years ago. I haven't actually said whether I still hold those views or not.



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14 Sep 2022, 8:28 pm

that1weirdgrrrl wrote:
By "talking at" she meant you were not responding to her. When a human complains, the appropriate response is empathy ("I'm sorry you experienced that.")


Except that she didn't say I was doing it to her, instead she was giving me advice about other people. What she said was

Quote:
Be God's hands and feet. Serve others. If you spend time serving people and helping people, rather than talking at them, you may find that you make friends.


Now, I realize that she had a grudge about me talking at her. But thats not what she said. So if she turns her personal grudge into a general advice, its called passive aggression.

And also, notice that she didn't say "you are talking at them rather than to them". Rather she put the word "at" as a slip of the tongue manner. So that is passive aggression too.

And, finally, she never suggested I switch to talking "to" them. Instead, she suggested I switch to doing some chores for them. So she assumes I am incapable of talking "to" them, which I also find quite off-putting. I am not some serf to do chores. I want to actually talk "to" people. Yet I am not given that opportunity since they are assuming I will only talk "at" them.

To sum it up, she

a) Never said it was about her and passive-aggressively pretended its about others

b) Assumed I am incapable of talking "to" people anyway, hence never suggested that I do

c) And instead suggested me to be a type of mute serve, again since I am incapable of talking "to" people

So, this being the case, what exactly should I be apologizing for?

I can't apologize for making *her* uncomfortable, since she passive-aggressively hid that it is about her (see "a"). And I can't apologize for something she *assumes* I am incapable of doing (see "b" and "c").

Basically instead of asking for apology or calling for change of action, she put me into a box full of assumptions. Thats why I felt angry at her. So why would I be apologizing to someone I am angry at?



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14 Sep 2022, 8:31 pm

Having two accounts on this site to see if someone's blocking you is also going to raise alarm bells for most people. Especially if you use one account to message the person to ask them why they blocked you.

I had to deal with someone in a meetup.com group many years back who would message girls he met at events on various social media platforms or dating sites when he would get blocked by them. These girls than would report it to me. Me and my fellow organizers and co organizers then discussed it and decided the best course of action was to kick him out of our groups. Consider yourself lucky you were not banned yet on that site.


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rse92
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15 Sep 2022, 9:57 am

QFT wrote:
rse92 wrote:
I suggest you could better make use of your time and be a happier person rather than ruminate about an 18 hour long chat with a girl half your age on a website that occurred over three months ago.


I am not sure where you got an idea she was half my age. If you read the 4-th message you will see she is 39. If you read the 5-th message you will see I am 42.


While I was mistaken, that is what you got out of what I posted?

She has already moved on. You should to.



rse92
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15 Sep 2022, 10:02 am

What makes you think that when she said "if you could start helping people instead of talking at them" the "at" was an accident, a slip of the tongue?

We are all autistics and everybody here knows exactly what the difference between talking at someone and talking to someone. She meant what she said.

For example, talking at someone is what you are doing in all your posts in this thread.