Is the majority of NT males that never have girlfriend, gay?

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What do you think?
Possibility 1 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Possibility 2 14%  14%  [ 3 ]
Possibility 3 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Possibility 4 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Possibility 5 10%  10%  [ 2 ]
Possibility 6 19%  19%  [ 4 ]
Possibility 7 19%  19%  [ 4 ]
Possibility 8 24%  24%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 21

QFT
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23 Sep 2022, 9:38 pm

cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
2) The consequence of the girls not dating me If NT males have hard time finding girls too, then this means that people are less likely to think I am gay. If NT males have easy time finding girls, then people are more likely to think I am gay (although there are other factors, as I illustrated in listing those "possibilities")


I think you are misattributing why girls/women might choose one man over another. Do you think (or has anyone told you) that you come across as homosexual?


Yes, see 12 Jul 2019, 8:24 am response of viewtopic.php?t=378239

Also see this post: viewtopic.php?t=385173

Its true though that those examples are quite rare. In fact, even more rare than me finding a girlfriend online. But the fact that they do occur kinda makes me worried.

By the way, I didn't say that girls don't date me because they think I am gay. I said that people think I am gay as a CONSEQUENCE of girls not approaching me. However, its true that girls don't approach me because they think something ELSE negative about me that is NOT gay but equally offensive (such as "creep").

In other words:

a) Girls think I am a creep

b) As a result of "a", girls don't approach me

c) As a result of girls not approaching me, everyone else (both guys and girls -- but more so guys) think I am gay

I am concerned about both "a" and "c". Actually I am more concerned about "a" than "c", since I see a lot more evidence of "a".

But in any case, if other men also have hard time finding a girlfriend, then it would alleviate my concerns about "a" and "c". But if most men easily get a girlfriend, then my concerns about "a" and "c" stand.

Then the other example was the reason Melanie rejected me. I been nearsighted ever since I was 18, and I never wore glasses in hopes to improve my vision. So since I used to my own nearsightedness, I project it on others. Once, Melanie came to my appartment in the dorm, and I asked her whether she thinks that my roommates confused her with a man and decided I am gay (she is cis female, its just that she is overweight so her figure isn't the prettiest). She said this was one of the reasons she broke up with me two months after the fact.

But that is not the only reason. The other reason was that I was pushing her to study math that she didn't want to. Now, what is suspicious is that she combined those two things together. She said that "I think she looks like a man, and should study math". So does it imply that she thinks I am closetted gay and so I want my girlfriend to be manly, hence telling myself she looks like a man (wishful thinking) and telling her to study math (since it is a manly career)?

Now on my end I don't think of math as manly career. I think of it as high social status career (since I rate my own social status in this way). When it comes to actual manly careers -- such as a cop -- I was strongly objecting when my first girlfriend, Sarah, wanted to be a cop in 2004. As for math and science I don't see it that way.

But could it be that Melanie misinterpretted it since she put two things in the same sentence when she said "you tihnk I look like a man and should study math".

Then the other reason Melanie cited as to why she broke up with me is that I didn't want to kiss her, and wouldn't have sex with her. Now, I already explained that I don't want to kiss because my mom told me "other people's saliva doesn't taste good" when I was little, and I don't want to have sex for religious reasons. And I told Melanie as much. But could it be that Melanie assumed I am gay and it is just an excuse? I mean, no kissing and no sex wasn't as big of a deal until later. So maybe when it was just no kissing and no sex, she thought "yeah it is just a saliva thing and a religioun thing" but when her looking like a man and studying math came up, maybe she thought "probably he doesn't want to kiss because he is gay".

Now, she didn't actually say she thinks I am gay. But do you think the above statements sort of imply it?

I guess if I am desperate into telling myself she doesn't see me as gay, I could always tell myself that saying she looks like a man, pushing her to study math and not wanting to kiss are completely separate things, and she put the first two in one sentence simply to say "it is a lot to deal with". But what if it wasn't an accident she chose those two speific items for the same sentence? What do you think?



CockneyRebel
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23 Sep 2022, 10:51 pm

There is only one person in the world that you need to worry about, and that's you. Stop worrying about NT men and stop comparing yourself to other people.


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aLifeLikeWeeds
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24 Sep 2022, 3:09 pm

This is my first response as a brand new member.

I love how you've really thought this out...the number off possibilities you've came up with is pretty impressive.

Mmmmm...my answer would be: Other! (Which I think was possibility #8?)

How many people do you think have observed and formed a perception of you in the past year? Through either direct contact or just in passing?

A couple thousand? (This is just a hypothetical guess, could very well be soo much more or soo much less depending).

There you are, sitting where you are...you are you...and you know the reality of your reality...including your sexual orientation.

And if say, 2000 people have observed you and formed some perception of you in their mind, in the past year, then, just counting these, there are 2000 other versions of you out there in the world...within these people minds.

The answer here is that the answer to your question is unknowable.

Is it possible that there are those out there that think you may be gay based on your lack of having a girlfriend? Yes.

Is it possible that there are those out there that do not think you are gay because of it? Yes.

Is it possible that there are those that haven't considered if you are or aren't? Yes.

I can relate with you. Due to having endless experiences of misunderstandings and the 100% incongruent responses that told me this person did NOT understand what I tried to communicate, I've spent a lot of time worrying about people's perceptions.

But I had an intense revelation in regards to THE UNKNOWN. That the reality of life and especially other people is that somethings are literally unknowable to us unless we ask.

I noticed that I spent a lot of energy worrying about things that, unless I decided to ask, I couldn't know. And I began trying to recognize and categorize these thoughts as such when I could.

I also began to explore my relationship to the unknown...that, for some reason, not knowing, especially in regards to other people, is something that can be uncomfortable for me...and if that is true...if that is my reality at the moment, it's ok. I accept it.

People are challenging...especially their subjectivity...their ability to form their own understanding of things and other people and us is really daunting for those of us who find truth to be very important.

There are some who may 100% genuinely, well meaning, perceive us inaccurately...and think we are less capable than we actually are.

There are some who may form a perception of us in a less genuine way by seeing us in a way that is distorted and colored and perverted by their own insecurities...and are unwilling or unable to truly recognize us no matter what...because their perceptions of certain people will always have a negative tint.

But this is a reality of people.

I've come to learn that we do have a power here though.

We have the power to accept and respect their power to see the world and other people in whatever way they need/choose to.

Because the best way to deal with these realities is to accept them and to work towards becoming comfortable with what they truly mean.

I wish you the best!

Oh and I JUST realized and thought I should include it: For what it's worth, on my part, I have not spent a single moment considering what your sexual orientation may be :)



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24 Sep 2022, 6:29 pm

QFT wrote:
Fnord wrote:
@QFT: This is also not to be rude, but what qualities do you have that could attract a woman (besides being a single male), and that you could contribute to a relationship?
I never drink. I never smoke, I never use drugs, I never had sex (nor plan to, until marriage).
#1: Chemical and sexual abstinence.
QFT wrote:
I have Ph.D. in Physics and am pursuing second Ph.D. in math.
#2: Doctoral degree(s).
QFT wrote:
In a relationship I am looking for an emotional side a lot more than the physical side.
This seems more like something you want from a relationship, so I am not counting it for now.
QFT wrote:
When I dated Jennifer and she was sick I was there for her the whole time which is something that not everyone would do, and by the same token I wouldn't want to hurt anyone else who is vulnerable (when I do hurt others its because I see myself as a vulnerable side; but when it switches around like it did with Jennifer, I become a lot more sensitive).
#3: Compassion for others.
QFT wrote:
I am looking for commitment as opposed to moving from one woman to another all the time.
#4: Pro-Commitment.
QFT wrote:
I like to travel and I like adventure: no I don't get to do it that often (not enough time, not enough money) but at least that is something I would like to do.
#5: Adventurous.

Five good character traits.

What else? Stable and gainful employment, perhaps?


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cyberdad
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24 Sep 2022, 7:49 pm

@QFT

I did say several years ago to you that you need to reframe your thought process. You spend an inordinate amount of time worrying what other people think of you instead of focusing on your target population of dateable women.

You are very intelligent but your anxiety is making you think irrational and not strategic. It seems we are back to square one again, but I am patient.

1. Go back to basics and focus on your strengths (you have plenty)
2, Study why you have not succeeded before, if necessary do a project focusing on your target population
3. One of the things that will increase your success rate is to expand your target population. You have so many religious, ethnic and qualification related criteria that your target population is self-evidently narrow. One of the things you must remember is if you seeking women in such narrow categories is that you are focussing on the same community/network and after a while you become familiar to them through simple word of mouth.

Why are you not thinking of going back to India and seeking a christian girl there? they would virtually fall into your lap based on the fact you are white/doctoral degree. What about Russia? why are you not seeking connections in these places instead of moping about in hometown USA getting the same results as before and asking the same questions as you have from several years ago??

You mind is twisting, you wouldn't do this if this was your area of research would you? if you applied for academic grants jn 2019 and these were rejected you wouldn't write the same application to the same funding body and cross your fingers and hope this time they might change their mind, The fact is they won't, Expand your horizons.,



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24 Sep 2022, 11:25 pm

Fnord wrote:
What else? Stable and gainful employment, perhaps?


Nope, definitely not this: I am 42 years old and still a student.

However, on a bright side, I am not having a job because I had a dream, since I was 9 years old, to be a theoretical physicist. And thats why I don't want to look for job outside of theoretical physics, in order not to give up my dream.

So if you frame it as in "I don't have a stable job", its a negative, but if you frame it as "I had a dream since I was 9, that I still stick to", thats a positive.

To present yet another side, if you ask "why didn't I become a theoretical physicist", I can go through a series of my mistakes/misjudgements, which is again a negative.

But then, on yet another hand, I can point at the fact that the competition for theoretical physics professor is 100 candidates per opening. So most people can't make it. What separates me from them is that they give up and look for another job. I don't. So its again a positive.

But in any case, this semester I FINALLY started to teach at community college. I figured I can do so in such a way that doesn't take a lot of time and leaves me time to do theoretical physics. In particular one of the main reasons teaching takes a lot of time is grading. Well, instead of assigning 30 mindless exercizes, I can assign 5 intelligent ones. And then they don't have to spend all night solving it, I don't have to spend all night grading it, and they derive more benefit too (since I write them myself and do so to make them think) and everyone is happy.

I still hope to move up the ladder to research positions. But at least I have a teaching position, for now.

As far as Ginger is concerned, though, her reasons for rejecting me included BOTH the lack of stable job AND my dream to be a physicist since 9. So she didn't see it as positive vs negative. Instead, she saw both of those things together as "us moving in different directions in life" (her words). But I am highly skeptical this was the main reason for her rejecting me. Because she knew both of those things all along. I think she rejected me due to other things but, since she knows how I kept arguing about those other things, she decided to lie to me that its all about my career choice.

But then again, I do remember how few months before breakup she told me that her dad asked her not to promise marriage to me until my job situation becomes more clear. Even though she is just 3 years younger than me (so she was 31 at the time, and is 39 now), she was brought up in strict Southern Baptist family, and she listens to her parents a lot. So its possible that she genuinely didn't care prior to that, but once her dad said something, she started to care. I mean, I didn't talk to her dad except for when I visitted them. I visitted them just twice (once in July 4 and the other time in Thanksgiving). I remember at the end of July 4 visit, her dad asked me about my job situation, and I just laid it out to him as it is. The next few months, things went rocky. And then after Thanksgiving she broke up with me.



QFT
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24 Sep 2022, 11:44 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I did say several years ago to you that you need to reframe your thought process. You spend an inordinate amount of time worrying what other people think of you instead of focusing on your target population of dateable women.


It seems that in this sentence you contradict point "3". Because here you are saying to focus on target population (which would be defined by my current definition) while in point "3" you are asking me to change my target population.

cyberdad wrote:
2, Study why you have not succeeded before, if necessary do a project focusing on your target population


Can you study this as well, and give me some of your thoughts in this regard?

cyberdad wrote:
One of the things you must remember is if you seeking women in such narrow categories is that you are focussing on the same community/network and after a while you become familiar to them through simple word of mouth.


But White, Christian, and educated is not that narrow -- particularly since I am looking all across the country.

So if you are saying that I became familiar to all White Christian Educated women all across the US by the word of mouth, then it is exactly what I was complaining about, except magnified a thousanfold. I was complaining about having bad reputation in places I live. Now it turned out that my bad reputation spread all across the country. Don't you see how horrible that is?

cyberdad wrote:
Why are you not thinking of going back to India and seeking a christian girl there? they would virtually fall into your lap based on the fact you are white/doctoral degree. What about Russia? why are you not seeking connections in these places instead of moping about in hometown USA getting the same results as before and asking the same questions as you have from several years ago??


Well, between Russia and India, I will pick Russia: Russian women are White.

The problem is that I was told that in Russia academics don't get paid that much. But who knows maybe that was mis-information since at least one person disagreed. So I need to look further.

But, regardless, having bad reputation spread all across USA is horrible regardless. So even if I do marry a Russian woman, I would still be concerned about my reputation among Americans.



cyberdad
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25 Sep 2022, 12:12 am

QFT wrote:
The problem is that I was told that in Russia academics don't get paid that much. But who knows maybe that was mis-information since at least one person disagreed. So I need to look further.

But, regardless, having bad reputation spread all across USA is horrible regardless. So even if I do marry a Russian woman, I would still be concerned about my reputation among Americans.


I hardly think anyone would raise an eyebrow if you tried a russian dating agency to meet a white, university educated russian woman. The war in Ukraine hasn't stopped that market supply for russian women in America.



QFT
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25 Sep 2022, 12:29 am

cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
The problem is that I was told that in Russia academics don't get paid that much. But who knows maybe that was mis-information since at least one person disagreed. So I need to look further.

But, regardless, having bad reputation spread all across USA is horrible regardless. So even if I do marry a Russian woman, I would still be concerned about my reputation among Americans.


I hardly think anyone would raise an eyebrow if you tried a russian dating agency to meet a white, university educated russian woman. The war in Ukraine hasn't stopped that market supply for russian women in America.


If you mean Russian brides, then no I won't do that. Its the same concept as prostitution.

If I were to marry Russian woman, I would either marry the one that is already living in America, or I will move back to Russia and marry a Russian woman so that we both live there.

I don't want anyone to just use me financially. I am a human being, not a fat wallet (and besides I am not that rich anyway).



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25 Sep 2022, 1:23 am

QFT wrote:
I don't want anyone to just use me financially. I am a human being, not a fat wallet (and besides I am not that rich anyway).


Why do you equate that with prostitution?? that's not a very healthy thing to believe. Also it's not very complimentary to women who have married American men and move to America.

You seem to have a selective memory but I mentioned women who aren't "americanised" are likely to be more traditional in their values and might look at you as somebody who wants a traditional wife which is why you are looking for a wife in Russia. It's not just about material wealth. There are qualified educated Russian women who are broad minded and may want to have new experiences outside of Russia.



naturalplastic
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25 Sep 2022, 2:12 am

Being gay does nothing to stop a man from getting married, and siring children.

The first gay man I ever meet was the dad next door who had two kids- the same neighbor we had had since we moved into the neighborhood when I was ten (though we didnt know that he was gay until some years later).

A gay male district manager of my company was very open about his gayness, and joked with the rest of us in the carpool that he had been "married five times...three times to women, and twice to men".

In fact its probably easier for a gay man to get a female wife than it is for straight man because the gay man isnt really sexually attracted to his partner. So he is not as picky about finding a partner as a straight man would be.

So thats the reality.

But is that the perception by the public?

Most people know middle aged guys who have never been married, but who are clearly not gay, nor gay-acting.



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25 Sep 2022, 3:16 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Being gay does nothing to stop a man from getting married, and siring children.

The first gay man I ever meet was the dad next door who had two kids- the same neighbor we had had since we moved into the neighborhood when I was ten (though we didnt know that he was gay until some years later).

A gay male district manager of my company was very open about his gayness, and joked with the rest of us in the carpool that he had been "married five times...three times to women, and twice to men".

In fact its probably easier for a gay man to get a female wife than it is for straight man because the gay man isnt really sexually attracted to his partner. So he is not as picky about finding a partner as a straight man would be.

So thats the reality.

But is that the perception by the public?

Most people know middle aged guys who have never been married, but who are clearly not gay, nor gay-acting.


My mum knew my dad was gay but in her words "wanted his pixie genes for my children" :lol:

He wasn't publicly open about being gay and some women were clearly infatuated with him. I think it was mostly to do with his easy manner.

To answer the poll - 8

There's no right answer here, each person's impression of you will differ, if they they think about it at all. It could be any of the choices from 1 to 7.



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25 Sep 2022, 4:36 am

cyberdad wrote:
Why do you equate that with prostitution?? that's not a very healthy thing to believe.


Were you referring to Russian brides?

If yes, then it is similar to prostitution because they are blindly looking for ANY American just to leave the country.

If no, then please tell me what you are referring to.

cyberdad wrote:
Also it's not very complimentary to women who have married American men and move to America.


If it just HAPPENED that the man they married was American, and they moved as a result, then there is nothing wrong with it.

If, instead, they were LOOKING for an American man, ANY American man, and found one, then yes there is plenty of wrong with it.

cyberdad wrote:
You seem to have a selective memory but I mentioned women who aren't "americanised" are likely to be more traditional in their values and might look at you as somebody who wants a traditional wife which is why you are looking for a wife in Russia.


So why would "traditional" aspect imply they are less likely to reject me?

I actually have a couple of theories of my own:

a) Due to being more traditional, they find marriage more important and, therefore, they are more willing to settle, just not to be single

b) Due to being more traditional, they are in favor of traditional gender roles. And so when I come across as "too dominant" or "too controlling" it doesn't turn them off since "thats how man is supposed to be"

c) If I mess up in any other way, they won't judge me because "a woman can not judge a man".

If it is "a", then

(i) it implies that the only woman that would be with me is the one that wants to settle. That is not something I would like: I want a woman to actually love me.

(ii) Why did said woman get into a situation when nobody besides me likes her? Does she have extremely negative qualities of some kind?

If it is "b", then

(i) Why am I coming across as controlling to begin with? I mean, yes, some American women did complain that I was controlling and broke up with me for that reason. But oftentimes it was miscommunication: I am looking for an equal, not a subordinate. So if it was miscommunication, why not find ways to communicate better instead of looking for a woman that seeks a dominant man?

(ii) How were you able to guess that this is one of the reasons American women reject me, before I told you? Is it because there is an assumption that a man that carries himself a certain way would be controlling? If so, can you elaborate?

If it is "c", then let me give you a more extreme example. Lets say a man is violent. His solution is to marry a Muslim woman since in Muslim countries men beating up their wives is normal. Well, I don't think that is a good solution because I am not violent on the first place. So what I want is I want women to stop thinking of me as violent, given that I am not. I don't want some woman to say "its okay with me QFT is violent because thats how men are supposed to be". No!! ! Since I know QFT is not violent, whether or not "its okay to be violent" should be irrelevant. And if it is *truly* irrelevant the way I want it to be, then why would a hypothetical woman being a Muslim help? I hope you see my point.

cyberdad wrote:
It's not just about material wealth. There are qualified educated Russian women who are broad minded and may want to have new experiences outside of Russia.


Being broad minded is a good thing. But wanting to marry an American just because "Americans are rich" is a bad thing. If you are talking about "broad mindedness", then why won't I be able to find "broad minded" woman from first world country? Why does it have to be a second world country?



Last edited by QFT on 25 Sep 2022, 5:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

QFT
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25 Sep 2022, 4:48 am

naturalplastic wrote:
In fact its probably easier for a gay man to get a female wife than it is for straight man because the gay man isnt really sexually attracted to his partner. So he is not as picky about finding a partner as a straight man would be.


This makes me also wonder about something else. Could it be that it is also easier for a gay man to find a wife because a gay man is typically neatly dressed and has good social skills? So someone in my situation, who dresses really messy to the point of coming across as homeless, is typically straight. And similarly someone who gets rejected due to bad social skills is typically straight, too? Is vast majority of single men straight for that reason?

naturalplastic wrote:
But is that the perception by the public?


Which is precisely the problem I am concerned about in OP.

Could it be that the vast majority of single men are straight (see above) yet they are usually mistaken for gay (due to the reasons described in OP)?

In other words, the straight group of men is being "punished" by being mistaken for gay, due to doing things gay men would never do (dress sloppilly)?

A straight man dresses sloppily (something a gay man would never do). So striaght man can't get a girlfriend. And so everyone thinks he is gay?

While the vast majority of gay men dress neatly and have good social skills, so they get married, and everyone thinks they are straight?



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25 Sep 2022, 5:47 am

I chose option 8, since I consider myself to be a recluse and a hermit. Frankly, all the abuse I’ve taken from family and friends, I no longer care!! !! !



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25 Sep 2022, 3:42 pm

I don’t understand the problem with “nonwhite” women.

I feel like your overanalysis irritates a lot of women. Most don’t like men who interrogate them. I don’t like to be interrogated by my wife.

And you have to stop questioning why you should be clean, and take showers more often.

Otherwise, you will continue to have problems finding a girlfriend.

Your best bet is probably a fellow theoretical physicist.