I really don't want the US to become a Christian Theocracy

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funeralxempire
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24 Sep 2022, 1:16 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Christian theocracies aren't so bad. Better than an Islamic one surely?


I dont see much difference between the 20th/21st Century Taliban and this actual Christian theocracy in Sixteenth Century Switzerland.


But MUSLIMS!!

If that didn't work, lemme try waving my arms as I say it in my most Halloweeny voice.

But, MUSLIMS!!

Yeah, it's not quite as scary as intended. :mrgreen:


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24 Sep 2022, 1:45 pm

Christian theocracy? Hey, I’m all for it. When do we start?

The problem is in mixing theology and politics. If you take a purist approach to Christianity, and I mean strictly New Testament-based, as close to literal as you can REASONABLY get (the Bible itself even mentions some things are not intended literally), and transcend denominations, you’re left with one central idea that to be Christian, one must WILLINGLY submit to Christ as Lord and Savior. Forced conversions aren’t conversions. And societal/political pressures will often result in professions of faith that aren’t authentic.

TL;DR, you cannot have a genuine Christian theocracy without freedom of or even from religion—and that’s no theocracy at all.

You’d have pretty much what we already have. We’re already as close to a Christian theocracy as anyone is ever going to get.

At most, all you can really do is pass and enforce Christian VALUES, and that we already halfway do. For example, we practice eye-for-an-eye justice as described in the Old Testament. It’s not perfectly Old Testament—the death penalty is the ONLY acceptable equivalent for murder. We use incarceration unacceptably too frequently when forced labor would both be a better deterrent AND would commit prisoners to repaying their debt to society rather than being a burden upon it. Plus, there is nothing compassionate about lengthy prison sentences. Impose a limit on involuntary servitude and conditions for how servants can earn their freedom early or may be forgiven.

Some Christian values are not literally enumerated in the Bible but are rather difficult lessons learned with experience. For example, corporate solidarity mixed with statist altruism DOES NOT WORK. Book of Acts, Ananias and Sapphira. I don’t believe that God struck them down over money. I believe it was refusing to live true to their own values and then lying about it. Why is it never pointed out that the early church abandoned “to each according to their need” soon after this incident? Easy answer: Christian teachers want congregations that are fully dependent on the local church and under their control. Successful, high-achieving societies live by the simple rule that the Pilgrims had to learn the hard way: He who doesn’t work doesn’t eat.

Christian values prioritize things like compassion and charity. So establish a reasonable, limited welfare system, require businesses to make a percentage of goods and services available, grant the most marginalized and vulnerable free, on demand access to anything that companies can’t use—waste products that could be converted into, say, building materials, or fresh produce at the end of its shelf life. The only condition upon meeting the right criteria is they appear in person and may only take as much as they can carry.

Disabled and the elderly would obviously be left out, but there would be services that would specifically reach these groups.

Anything MORE than that would obligate individuals to care for others when it may not suit their values to do so. That would create another Ananias and Sapphira problem but on a societal scale. I pretty much view the United States as an A&S government—obligates citizens to be generous, enables them to lie about their actual commitment. It’s evident in our society—stratified society competing for welfare entitlements rather than individual achievement, fostering feelings of bitterness and resentment among these various classes.

Would not Christian values be preferable to corporatism, racism, greed, entitlement, and resentment? You could do much worse than Christian values. Note that sharing Christian values does not mean actually being a Christian believer, but rather espousing ideals that encourage the best of society over the worst of it.



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24 Sep 2022, 2:03 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
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Please tell me that's NOT from Chick Tracts. 8O



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24 Sep 2022, 2:11 pm

UncannyDanny wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
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Please tell me that's NOT from Chick Tracts. 8O

Al Franken actually.


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funeralxempire
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24 Sep 2022, 2:23 pm

UncannyDanny wrote:
Please tell me that's NOT from Chick Tracts. 8O


Al Franken's book Lies And The Lying Liars Who Tell Them.


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24 Sep 2022, 2:30 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
In fact I'm just going to be honest I think even Satanists have better 'morals' than your most devout right-wing Christian fanatic. They at least believe in religious freedom and don't think they have the right to force their beliefs on anybody the way Christians have done for centuries.

And contrary to what these Trump-worshipping Qanon morons believe, real Satanists are not a bunch pedophiles drinking baby's blood while secretly running the Democratic Party. But you cannot convince any of these dangerous useful idiots to Trump's textbook fascist agenda of this so frankly they can all die for all I really care. :roll:


I am a satanist, and yeah most satanists see satan as a symbol of rebelling against tyranny. We don't literally worship satan, and drink babies blood that is silly. in fact worshipping a deity would go against satanism. Most satanists are just people who grew up in Christianity and got fed up with it. Though there are satanists from other religious backgrounds as well.


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24 Sep 2022, 5:05 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
In fact I'm just going to be honest I think even Satanists have better 'morals' than your most devout right-wing Christian fanatic. They at least believe in religious freedom and don't think they have the right to force their beliefs on anybody the way Christians have done for centuries.

And contrary to what these Trump-worshipping Qanon morons believe, real Satanists are not a bunch pedophiles drinking baby's blood while secretly running the Democratic Party. But you cannot convince any of these dangerous useful idiots to Trump's textbook fascist agenda of this so frankly they can all die for all I really care. :roll:


I am a satanist, and yeah most satanists see satan as a symbol of rebelling against tyranny. We don't literally worship satan, and drink babies blood that is silly. in fact worshipping a deity would go against satanism. Most satanists are just people who grew up in Christianity and got fed up with it. Though there are satanists from other religious backgrounds as well.


Yeah I know, that's kinda what I was meaning. Most 'Satanists' are actually atheists who believe the world is here for us to enjoy before we all die (or something like that, right?)

Then you have what are known as "Luciferian Witches" which are not evil either, but actually do worship Lucifer and work with his demons because they believe these beings are simply misunderstood and are much more sympathetic and helpful to humans than God and his angels. This being evident by the centuries of oppression that The God of Abraham and his followers subjected people to around the world.

I can see where both are coming from.



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24 Sep 2022, 7:56 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
In fact I'm just going to be honest I think even Satanists have better 'morals' than your most devout right-wing Christian fanatic. They at least believe in religious freedom and don't think they have the right to force their beliefs on anybody the way Christians have done for centuries.

And contrary to what these Trump-worshipping Qanon morons believe, real Satanists are not a bunch pedophiles drinking baby's blood while secretly running the Democratic Party. But you cannot convince any of these dangerous useful idiots to Trump's textbook fascist agenda of this so frankly they can all die for all I really care. :roll:


I am a satanist, and yeah most satanists see satan as a symbol of rebelling against tyranny. We don't literally worship satan, and drink babies blood that is silly. in fact worshipping a deity would go against satanism. Most satanists are just people who grew up in Christianity and got fed up with it. Though there are satanists from other religious backgrounds as well.


What are the differences between the Satanic Temple and groups like, say, the LaVeyans?


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26 Sep 2022, 1:20 pm



SmAllest
PArts Synergy
oF ALL Words
Express More
Than Letters
As The Rest
Of Existence Does

NeW
NoW

Change
An Only Truth;

And Indeed A Reality of
Above So Below Within Inside
Outside And All Around That May

Be EXPReSSinG in Unlimiting Ways

As Long as Freedom of Expressing

Is Not Materially Reducing Through Censorship;

"Theocracy," Is Just Another Word For the Politics
of Materially Reducing Existence For Mastering

And Control of Change That is Always A Frigging

Illusion As Even Science Shows in Terms of Quantum

Mechanics, It's Impossible to Reduce Reality Through Just
A Five-Step-Old Antiquated Method Named A Scientific Method

That Only Measures What Is Possible to Observe; For Instance,

Our Conscious Thinking Minds That Neuroscience Approximates

As Half A Percent of Our Head to Toe, And SKiN And Hair, and Underneath

That Existence Not Counting of Course All the Connecting That Science

Has no Way to Measure in Terms of Innate, Instinctual, Intuitional Leaping

All LoGiC
As Such

Yet in ReaSon

of Chaos MaGiC
As Art Comes to Fruition
ThiS Way Beyond All Scientific

Measure For How Our Minds In Synergy
Even Work to Produce These Words On Page...

Yeah Baby, (Not Anyone In Particular) Go Ahead
And Try to Reproduce my Creativity More Unique
Than Any Finger Print i've Even Ever Dreamed As Of Now

This Avatar Existence in Terms of Words on Page; It's True,

Theocracy And Or Tradition; Or and Politics and Philosophy

Is What Some Folks May Do Their Best to Limit A Force So Large

So Small

As A Three
or Four Letter
Word Starting With
G Ending With E Starting
With L Ending in D; There Just

Are No Limits to Human iMaGiNaTioN
And Creativity When More Fully Unleashing and ReLeASinG

Yet You See, if You Can And Will (And Not Particularly Anyone HeaR)

i Score 100 Percent in Open Minded Ways of PerSoN And Human Potential;

Closed Minds Do Less in Ways of iMaGiNaTioN CREaTiViTY And More Left
Hemisphere Ways of Processing Our Existence in Smaller Picture Materially Reduced Ways;

There Really isn't at Essence

Much Difference Than

Scientism That Materially

Reduces All to Only What May
Be Observed Now And Measured;

And Theocratic Religion That Insists

That A Force of All That Is May Be Limited

to One Dead Little Brown Dude, Likely Dead on A Cross,
A Couple of Thousand of Years or So; Or How About A Three
Letter Word, or an 800,000 Or So Word Mix and Match Script Book
All Copy And Pasted Together Before Even Microsoft Windows Exists...

Freedom of Information; The Information Highway; All The Benefits of Technology
That Provide the Potential For Us NOT to Rely On Each Other As Social Animals to the

Point of Much
Depression,
Anxiety,

And Loneliness,

of A Culture of Wolves
Howling At the Moon Missing
A Vague Feeling of Human Love ToGeTHeR;
Dancing Naked Enough Whole Complete, Thriving For Real;

And HeaR Lies and Tells the Truth of the Current Human Conundrum
of Lonely Wolves At Hand, So Domesticated And Separate From Each Other Now;

Relatively Speaking
of Course, Per Face to
Face Warm Human Connecting
With About 150 Well felt and sensed
Acquaintances With Intimate Connecting For Real

For Maybe A Handful of Really Close FRiEnDS and Even Lover True...

Tradition, What We Commonly Call Shared Symbols and Ideologies as
Politics, Religions, And Philosophies Mutually Understood And Doing Them Together
For Real is What Human Animals At Best Do to Survive and Thrive ToGeTHeR As Long

As They Need
Each Other to
Do This Human
Way of Being STiLL;

Nope, Not so Much Now;

And People are Hurting From the Reality
of No Longer Being Part of Some Kind of
Tradition That Bonds and Binds Folks ToGeTHeR;

The Christian Religion is Dying Slowly Yet Still Dying;

i LiVE iN An area that Once Held the Most Churches Per Capita
in Locality; i Get Around as A Participant Anthropology Observer For

Real And See What's Mostly Left And Reducing of A Most Gray Haired Demographic Now;

It's Sort of Like Agriculture, Hospitality, And Construction in Florida; The Average Age of Workers
is Increasingly Older Middle Aging Folks, Without Much Replacement in Attrition, Except For Immigrants

Like the Ones Around my Block With Green Cards Who Tore Shingles off And Replaced Them on
A Roof in 98F Degree Heat With Just Four of them, in One-Day-Span of Work, Just SO Motivated to Do

Another Roof Tomorrow For Close to Florida's New 11 Dollar Minimum Wage Starting September 30th, 2022.

Not Only is Religion Dying; Tradition As A Whole is Dying too as Part of That True; And That's A Problem;

And That's A Real Problem

As At Core Humans

Bond and Bind

Over Common
Symbols and Ideologies

For the Human Warmth That
Brings in Terms of the Neurohormone
Oxytocin And the Rest of Neurohormones
And Neurochemicals In Synergy; Best Balancing Force of Thriving True...

in My Studies of the Christian Religion As A Really EPiC Long Form Poem
Writer And Participant Anthropology Observer, i Understand the Limitations

of What Tradition Will Bring yet i Understand the Joy of Being Human Connecting
With Unconditional Love and True At Least i Can and Will Pick Those Jewels Out of Their

Sacred Text and

Leave the Ignorant

Mud Behind Just Replacing

All of that With Terms of FearleSS UNConDiTioNaL Love

As i Mean, After All, What are They Gonna Do, Lie And Say John Didn't Say 'God is Love'...

All i Have to Do to Fit in With them is Understand their Sacred Text in Close to Photographic
Memory Better Than the Pastors and Priests Hehe; Other than that Love is What's Left Over on

The Sunday
Dinner Plates
to Do Plus a Lot of
Free Food From A Lot of
Nationalities Who Are Part of
The Catholic Church; One Week it is
Hispanic; A Couple Weeks Later From
American-Pacific Islanders; It's True, We Really,

Overall, Need Tradition and Freedom of Human Expressions
in Terms of Yin and Yang No Matter Where We Go, Once Again,

Above So Below Within Inside Outside And All Around i Visit the
Globe All the Way Around Each and Every Day And it is the Bond

of Fearless Love Binding

That Works Everywhere

Psychopathic Leaning

Folks Aren't Consuming

The Oxygen of Love in The Room
And Not Returning it For Real Living Life Fun...

Honestly, We have As Much to Fear From Losing
Tradition, Remaining a Stable Society, As We Do

From Each and Every Person Going Their own Ways

And Never Connecting in Flesh and Blood Again Sort of

Like the Elders in Japanese High Rises Who Have no Living Connections
in Face-to-Face-Interaction

With Other Humans,

Where 'Clean Up Crews'
Clean Up What's Remaining

After They Go Away As No One Else

Was Even Aware They Existed in Flesh and Blood Life

At least enough to Care to Check on if they Exist at all Now...

i Suppose For those of Us Who Understand the Ups and Downs of

Both Sides of Tradition and Freedom in Change We at Best Are Careful

For What
We Wish
for Next;
Lest We Don't
End up A Bad TV
Show on A 'Twilight
Zone' of Our Own Pre-made Hell,

Without Any Tradition At All Just
Anarchy And Chaos Sort of Like a
Prison Without Rules in Seattlish AS Such.

i Have No Problem Fitting in, in Rome; Just Look
Like You Can And Will Hit A Home Run on the First
Baptist Soft Ball Team And You Get Free Reign of the Church...

Or On the Other Hand When Folks Judge Your Singing Voice as That
of an Angel on High Yet of Course Just Another Autistic Savant Skill Born

On Date As such...

And of Course As
Always Evidence
By Request;

Full of
Surprises
All Around
Open Minded So Free
Zero Percent Neurotic too, hehe...

Not Everyone is Fearless and Loving
Free It's Like An Every Day Religion
For Real Unique And Fitting in As Well an Art of Thrive For Real...

Politicians Have Been Using Abrahamic Religions As A Cash Cow
For Thousands of Years to Master And Control Others; And Restrict
Their Freedoms For Power, Status, And Material Gains, Whether You Call

'Em Politicians, Priests, Pastors, Philosophers, Or Even Mommy And Daddy AS Such At Home;

And Of Course Other Religions, Cultures, Still Do the Same; The Cash Cow of the Christian Religion
is Dying Slow in America; 70 Percent of Catholics Don't Even Believe That the Priest Can Literally Change
A Wafer of Bread into a Flesh And Blood Real Eucharist of Jesus From A Dead Dude 2,000 Or so Years ago....

Too Much Freedom of
Information and Expression
For Myths Like that to continue
to Be taken Literally By the Majority
of Church Go'ers And Increasing Stay at

Home Christians No Longer Tithing 10 Percent
of Their Earnings For Building More Churches Tax-Free...

When the Cash Cow of Politics is Gone Another Will Arise

As Long as Traditional Ways of Getting Out to Vote Stick together

on the Same
Sheet of
Choir Music

'Bringing in the Sheaves', etc...

If Only 'Those Sheaves' Could Be
Kindness in the Ways of Fearless
Unconditional Love For All; Alas

A Lad, It's Just Not Human Nature; All We
Can Really Handle Close According to 'Dunbar
Number' is About 150 in This One Life; Togetherness

is Our Rule And Separate is The Reality too; Bringing in the Sheaves,

This and That Flavor Separate Indeed As Change Continues the Only Real Reality New Now...

Christian Theocracy is Only A Temporary Grey Scare in the United States; NuMBeRS Don't Lie

When Many

Are Dying Away...

Ironically, it is the Immigrants
Who Stand to Potentially Breathe
Life Support into Christianity; The
Hospitality Industry; Agriculture;
And Construction, Particularly in Florida

My Current Place of Abiding Now; What A 'Real Fool'

The Current DeSaTaNiS Governor is Today He is Going

to Need Every Set of Migrant Hands to Replace Roofs in Florida Sooner Than Soon

As 'Ian' Will Have A Final Word HeaR For What Roofs Come and Go; Yes, Very, Very Soon...

And True, Church
Roofs are Not Exempt...

Or Stained Glass Windows
Lacking Love For Hands That Heal
Bringing Temple Roofs and Stained Glass

Windows Back to Life...

So Often Brown Hands
Calloused And Strong

With Feet

So Often

in Sandy Sandals
Just Waiting To Return to Church...

Indeed, Humans So Fascinating to
Watch RiSinG
FaLLinG

RiSinG

FaLLiNG Again and Again For Real...

Fortunately, All i Have to Do is Watch IT; 'The Circus,' And 'Clowns'..:)



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26 Sep 2022, 1:59 pm

Don't fret, Canada will allow a referendum for the USA to become our next Province.

Then no one will care who, what, or if you worship AND everyone will have access to basic healthcare so they don't have to rely on praying to stay alive. 8)


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26 Sep 2022, 3:13 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Don't fret, Canada will allow a referendum for the USA to become our next Province.

Then no one will care who, what, or if you worship AND everyone will have access to basic healthcare so they don't have to rely on praying to stay alive. 8)


Sounds good to me :wtg:



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26 Sep 2022, 3:20 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Don't fret, Canada will allow a referendum for the USA to become our next Province.

Then no one will care who, what, or if you worship AND everyone will have access to basic healthcare so they don't have to rely on praying to stay alive. 8)


Sounds good to me :wtg:

:heart: :heart: :heart:


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26 Sep 2022, 10:52 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Don't fret, Canada will allow a referendum for the USA to become our next Province.

Then no one will care who, what, or if you worship AND everyone will have access to basic healthcare so they don't have to rely on praying to stay alive. 8)

Canadians are not masochists.


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27 Sep 2022, 12:54 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Don't fret, Canada will allow a referendum for the USA to become our next Province.

Then no one will care who, what, or if you worship AND everyone will have access to basic healthcare so they don't have to rely on praying to stay alive. 8)

Canadians are not masochists.

Lol maybe not all Canadians, but I definitely know some kinky ones that would probably be into breaking in new citizens.. :p


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27 Sep 2022, 1:26 am

Since religion has been in steep decline in the west it’s not going to return without some major supernatural event preceding it.

There’s more chance of the Nazi’s returning if you had to put odds on it.


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27 Sep 2022, 2:09 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
They could actually bring back the sodomy laws and heretic burnings for all we know. And I guarantee you many of these people are hoping for this.


Lynchings have been a recreational passtime in the US from the 1600s all the way to the mid 1960s