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IsabellaLinton
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06 May 2023, 7:20 pm

Joe,

You started a thread saying you didn't want to be considered a narcissist, because you care about people and you have a lot of empathy. Other people commented in your thread by posting narcissism tests, which are related to whether we care about other people's feelings. Your thread seems to be why the topic of empathy has come up, and no offence but you're the main person who ever raises that topic because you're concerned about autistic people having a stigma about no empathy. You've started many threads about autism and empathy over the years. That's where the kajillion posts come from. Otherwise I seldom see empathy mentioned by other members.


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06 May 2023, 7:21 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
Joe90 wrote:


That post has nothing to do with empathy ( well slightly). it is more to do with being socially clueless and realising that not everyone wants a solution if they rant. Some people do want solutions and find it helpful. You need to read the social clues and know the person well to respond in a manner that will not offend them.

SharonB actually agreed with your point about validating but then said she is guilty of being a problem solver.

What's the issue?


I didn't say there was an issue. I thought you wanted the thread so that we can carry on our conversation there instead of here.

But among all the kajillion posts that bring up empathy on this forum (and probably all other autism forums), it usually explains somewhere that empathy is required for people to bully, gaslight, and lots of other toxic intentions.


I didn't think I could add anything useful as I agreed with your comment and ShazzaB comment was her behaviour.


There are three types of empathy on a sliding scale and AFAIK everyone has a form of empathy , even psychopaths ( who are high in cognitive empathy)


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Joe90
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06 May 2023, 7:23 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Joe,

You started a thread saying you didn't want to be considered a narcissist, because you care about people and you have a lot of empathy. Other people commented in your thread by posting narcissism tests, which are related to whether we care about other people's feelings. Your thread seems to be why the topic of empathy has come up, and no offence but you're the main person who ever raises that topic because you're concerned about autistic people having a stigma about no empathy. You've started many threads about autism and empathy over the years. That's where the kajillion posts come from. Otherwise I seldom see empathy mentioned by other members.


You keep using the word empathy in some of your posts lately. Also I think I've only ever started one empathy thread. The most recent empathy thread was started by someone else.


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06 May 2023, 7:29 pm

I just did a side by side comparison of yours and Isabella's post and although it's not accurate as join dates are different and entries could be other posters the results are as follows:

Number of times Empathy was used in a post.

Joe90 = 650
Isabella = 194

You were also the first one to bring up empathy in your Just a Ramble thread from February.

What I'm getting at is , you really need to try and stop thinking about what others think of you here, it's irrelevant. It may feel important to you but unless you are talking about your friends it should be water off a ducks back.


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Last edited by Recidivist on 06 May 2023, 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IsabellaLinton
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06 May 2023, 7:35 pm

Joe90 wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:

I also don't get why people who say they have extremely high levels of empathy make threads to gaslight other people and claim it's normal human behaviour, or that others are lying if they don't do it too.


Yes. I wrote this. I'll admit it was a reference to your thread. Not just you as a member, but the whole thread. I don't understand why you keep saying you have a lot of empathy (which I believe) but you continue making threads which lowkey gaslight everyone here by suggesting we have bad thoughts about you, or we think you're a narcissist.

I don't remember seeing anyone here call you a narcissist but the entire thread is based on a supposition that "members" think you are, and that "members" don't think you have any empathy. Your thread is in The Haven so it was difficult for some of us to know how to reply. The accusation that we think you are a narcissist is, as far as I know, unfounded. I've never heard anyone say that. Same with the insinuation that we think you don't have empathy. You keep telling us you do, and we believe you. (Well, I do anyway, I shouldn't speak for others but I've never heard anything to the contrary.)

Your thread went on to say it's normal for people to gossip about others. I understand you're trying to be openminded but that was also hurtful. It's a suggestion on a public site that everything we'd written to you in the thread was disingenuous or we weren't telling the truth and we were really ganging up on you behind the scenes by calling you a narcissist. It was The Haven, meaning you were allowed to get sympathy for feeling maligned but we weren't really allowed to say it wasn't true without it seeming like we'd broken Haven rules.

When I said I didn't gossip about people, especially when it doesn't concern me or I'm not affected by the situation, it was suggested that I wasn't being honest. You had me in a Catch-22. I don't know what I was supposed to say to make you feel better. I said I don't consider you to lack empathy but then you started thinking maybe my friends don't like you, and they must have said bad things to me about you. That didn't happen. If we're going to be honest here like you said, you actually wrote to me wanting to discuss my friend. I said no to you, but your thread continued to suggest I (or we, or members) are the ones doing gossip. If you truly believe it's normal to gossip or malign people behind their backs and "everyone does it", then why are you making a thread in The Haven to accuse others as if they did something wrong?

That's why I see the thread as gaslighting, whether it was your intention or not.


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Joe90
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06 May 2023, 7:49 pm

And then people wonder why I take things personally when people make references in other threads and think it's about me or a thread I have made. This time it WAS about a thread I'd made, after all this time trying to tell me that people don't do it.
So cheers, you've just set off my paranoia again.

Quote:
I also don't get why people who say they have extremely high levels of empathy make threads to gaslight other people and claim it's normal human behaviour, or that others are lying if they don't do it too.


I didn't actually imply that you were lying about that. You've said enough times that you never gossip, so I believe you. I was just talking about people in general. And it is normal human behaviour but I'm not talking about you.

The reason I made the thread was because I saw a post somewhere saying about covert narcissism, so I looked it up and freaked out because I thought narcissism meant loving oneself, not the opposite.

But I suppose I should know by now that I mustn't make any negative threads any more. I'll go someplace else to express my anxieties.

I did write this in my post in the narcissist thread that you might have missed, because I knew you'd think I meant you were lying otherwise.
Quote:
But I'm not saying Isabella is lying or anything. But I wouldn't care either way (I meant that in a nice way).


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06 May 2023, 7:54 pm

What I don't get: When people reassure me that their rants aren't referring to me or my threads, yet they go and do it!

(Yes, I've done it now too).


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06 May 2023, 8:10 pm

What I don't get: insult by insinuation.
Or is is association?

For example if someone says they hate people who like X, and they know you happen to like X, is that an insult against you personally?
I'm told it's not an insult.
But I think if they know it is triggering to you it's being done to be hurtful.


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Joe90
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06 May 2023, 8:12 pm

Quote:
Joe90 = 650
Isabella = 194


Well I have been here longer than her, 13 years to be precise.


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06 May 2023, 8:13 pm

^^ Are you talking about that weirdo singer from BMTH ? :P


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Edna3362
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06 May 2023, 8:15 pm

I don't get : how to take responsibility for something so involuntary and unpredictable without the accessibility to solve it.

Sure, I'll put up with this in another 2 years -- that's when I'm sure I can afford to AND crossing certain time lines of my development.

But am I still patient enough for dealing with emotional liability?
Or, can I actually resolve and grow that fast within a span of two years?

Figuring is fine, I get the hows from the higher knowledge but...
Expecting me to just will the damn out of it?? I wish. :| I wish it is that easy. I don't get how people could just say as if it's that easy.

They never elaborate the tricky or hard parts, they just assume.
Even if their intent is to reassure that it isn't, it's pissing me off and it's patronizing.



What I do get : having to convince myself that I'm this person, trapped by a condition and conditioning.
And I just need to find a cure for this condition or be unconditioned from that so I can be myself again.

So I keep telling people I'm not like always this. Or that I am not like this. Because I fear being judged or being put in a label.

I'm turning 28 soon.
I either fight, solve and figure it for good just as I do all these years or...

In two weeks, I'm giving in for good.
"Start" there for good. That I cannot convince myself anymore, I cannot do it alone anymore.

.. Then I'll give myself another 7 years before shifting my gears in a significant way.


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Raleigh
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06 May 2023, 8:17 pm

Recidivist wrote:
^^ Are you talking about that weirdo singer from BMTH ? :P

Amongst other things.


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06 May 2023, 8:17 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
Joe90 = 650
Isabella = 194


Well I have been here longer than her, 13 years to be precise.


Like I said , it was an accurate representation and was more a fun thing to do that actually prove anything.

You first used the word 'empathy' in 2015 so it's a 2 year difference between the two of you.


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Last edited by Recidivist on 06 May 2023, 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Joe90
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06 May 2023, 8:24 pm

Recidivist wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
Joe90 = 650
Isabella = 194


Well I have been here longer than her, 13 years to be precise.


Like I said , it was an accurate representation and was more a fun thing to do that actually prove anything.

You first used the word 'empathy' in 2015 so it's a 2 year difference between the two of you.


I think I used the word long before 2015. It seems those results only goes up to 2015. Yes I suppose that says that I've used the word empathy a trillion times then. :roll:

I just can't believe, Isabella, that you would tell me that you don't make veiled posts referring to me or other members or my or their threads, yet you did it here. Also I can't believe you accused me of calling you a liar when I clearly stated that I was not calling you a liar. All you do is accuse me of lying, gaslighting, bragging, and everything else I can think of, then you wonder why I worry that my reputation is of a narcissist. Accusing someone of doing those things makes them appear to be toxic people, which is what I don't like and is why I question myself and my sanity a lot if the time.


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06 May 2023, 8:26 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Fairfield wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
...I don't think it's fair to keep throwing the word empathy around on an autism forum, because it's a sore subject for some of us...

:skull: :skull: :skull:

Empathy is a common human emotion and something that autistic people commonly have a problem with. I don't see why anyone needs to stop talking about it on an autism forum just because a couple people don't like it. Legit just skip over things mentioning it and I promise you'll survive it being mentioned. lmao


I don't think autistic people have a problem with empathy any more or less than NTs. Although Funeralxempire says I have black and white thinking, I don't think I do, because I know that empathy is not all or nothing. NT1 and ND1 can lack empathy for situation A but can both feel empathy for situation B. NT2 and ND2 can feel empathy for situation A but can lack empathy for situation B.

And empathy can be discussed but I mean going around saying that people here lack empathy (sorry Isabella but you did sort of say that, better to say names really). It's like NTs have a right to not have to feel empathy for everything but autistics must feel empathy for everything otherwise people are quick to yell out "you lack empathy!"


To be fair, I said that you might, not that you do. I can't tell where things are being put into overly black and white understandings, only that it would provide an explanation for why it'd occurred.

I know that intellectually you know nuance exists, but at times it seems like you might have two understandings, one more intellectual and one more intuitive, and when they conflict it leads to (generally good) questions about the nature of empathy.


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IsabellaLinton
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06 May 2023, 8:32 pm

Raleigh's here?
Hold on. I need to back up.


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