Why many women dislike socially awkward men

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Jayo
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06 Oct 2022, 6:26 pm

I've always had a certain interest in socio-anthropological psychology, despite being more in the technical field... and while I've since moved on from my younger dating "trial and error" days, married with a family and career, it always got me that us male Aspies lacked the "privilege" of others.

A few years before I was diagnosed (in my early twenties), I saw that some young women had this compulsion to "fix" their boyfriend, and their "ailment" was usually aggression, belligerence, or - heaven forbid - narcissistic personality disorder (yeah, good luck fixing THAT one, ladies! :P ) And I wondered, well, I've got some kind of unlabelled ailment that causes me to behave and communicate differently from the vast majority, so why doesn't a girl come along and try to "fix" ME?? And it dawned on me even back then, before I'd heard of Aspergers (which it was at the time), that she felt embarrassed to be seen with me, that I'd never be accepted by her social circle, or that she saw me as "weak" in some way. Even though I had good looks and a good body from working out, and worked in IT with a good salary.

So, I just viscerally knew from an anthro-psych perspective, that I wouldn't be considered a good protector; I was just thin-sliced as a weirdo and perpetual bully victim who could never be a good provider and protector. Even in our modern techy society, we still have some evo-psych remnants in our mammal brains. At least, the NTs do, more than us. :(

So then I did some online research, and get this, I found this comment in one forum from a woman which I found ignorant as hell but could understand why she would say/think this (WARNING: this may upset some folks here based on the apparent invalidation of Aspie struggles) - she basically said that not reading nonverbal cues is a sign of testing boundaries (yeah, WTF, right??) - below:

"First, let’s clarify. There are socially awkward men, and then there are the selectively socially awkward men. The second group are absolute nightmares. They’re the guys who blow past your body language and then “have no idea why you’re upset.” I cut these men zero slack, because no one is that clueless. They’re simply betting on the fact that if they blow past the boundaries enough and ignore more subtle signals, they’ll get what they want because women have been socially conditioned not to give a hard no."

When I saw that, I immediately thought back to when I was 21, that I got behind-the-back comments that I was "passive-aggressive" and didn't respect boundaries. And I thought, wow, I'm not the psycho-rapist type at all!! I was more of what they would call "incel" today, I suppose...but to think that there are women out there who would sooner assume that not reading body language is intentional, than an honest oversight. 8O

But maybe I digress a tad.

When I looked at other comments, they were definitely "right between the eyes" and not sugarcoating...sort of along the same lines as the archetypal nice guys, or short guys, or really skinny guys.

"Because she won't feel safe with a socially awkward guy, that's all.
If he's afraid of social situations, how can he protect and provide for her and her children?

Socially awkward men seem weak and low status. Even they are good looking and earn good money, that's still how it is, because at heart, we are still cavemen evolved to deal with hunter gatherer world. The fact that we now have cars, computers and representative government in some places, doesn't change that fact. We're still cavemen."



Last edited by magz on 07 Oct 2022, 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.: Generalization removed from title

lostonearth35
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06 Oct 2022, 9:04 pm

Why is this posted on GAD and not the Loathe and Hating forum?



r00tb33r
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06 Oct 2022, 9:13 pm

Incel paradise.


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CockneyRebel
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06 Oct 2022, 9:37 pm

Why do people dislike socially awkward people?


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magz
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07 Oct 2022, 2:23 am

 ! magz wrote:
The thread has been moved and a warning to it is issued:

It is acceptable to discuss painful individual experiences.
It is not acceptable to generalize such experiences to whole demographics (i.e. certain gender).

Stay within these boundaries or the thread is removed.


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magz
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07 Oct 2022, 2:28 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
Why do people dislike socially awkward people?

That's the best summary I've seen here :D

Socially awkward people struggle with other people. In every context. That's what social awkwardnesss is all about.


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amykitten
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07 Oct 2022, 10:00 am

As men who are social awkward are more likely to be narcissist so you got a bad deal tbf. Not saying all social awkward men are, but its more likely so women tend to avoid them.



QFT
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07 Oct 2022, 12:05 pm

amykitten wrote:
As men who are social awkward are more likely to be narcissist so you got a bad deal tbf.


And why is this the case? Is it

1) Because social skills is a "litmus test" for personality. So they "first" become narcissist, and "after that" they become socially awkward

Or

2) Because social awkwardness produces self-pity that leads to narcissism. So they "first" become socially awkward and "after that" become narcissist?

Or

3) Other (explain)

What is your theory?



ToughDiamond
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07 Oct 2022, 12:18 pm

In my early teens I got some feedback from a friend, to the effect that reason the girls at the youth club didn't want to date me was because I was socially awkward, or as he put it, "they tell me you look kind of lost." I rather took it to heart, and I think I began to work on my image so that I'd come over as more confident and generally likeable. It was a slow process but I think it contributed to my eventual (relative) success in finding partners. I think men usually put on an act so they'll be more appealing to women. In fact I think most people do some kind of work on their self-presentation so that they'll be more socially acceptable, rather than just letting the world see their real selves. Men in particular often don't like to air their feelings of insecurity. And I think there's probably some truth in the notion that women have evolved to prefer strong (or apparently strong) men, at least in mainstream society. Who in their right mind would want to start a family with a weak man as their only protection against the cruel world?

I've been watching Doc Martin recently. It struck me as rather unlikely that in real life he'd have attracted a girlfriend, as he's so socially inept and awkward. And yet he does seem to have something of the "alpha male" aura about him, saying what he thinks regardless of how it might go down, and bluntly ordering people about.

I hope I haven't made any offensive generalisations in what I've written. I'm often surprised to see how readily people can be "triggered" by certain statements if the author hasn't checked their wording for whatever it is that might upset people. I don't have a very strong grasp of people's sensitivities to such things, probably because I don't myself easily take offense or feel threatened by politically-incorrect language, and when I do notice they're over-generalising, I usually find it very easy to point out the inaccuracy of what they're saying, so I don't usually feel threatened by their words. I'm also aware that when somebody is upset, they might say rude things, and I think it's wise and kind to make allowances for that.



ToughDiamond
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07 Oct 2022, 12:27 pm

amykitten wrote:
As men who are social awkward are more likely to be narcissist so you got a bad deal tbf. Not saying all social awkward men are, but its more likely so women tend to avoid them.

Interesting theory, but it'll take more detail than that to convince me that it's correct. I thought narcissists were socially adept people, skilled at manipulating others. But maybe we need a working definition of "socially awkward" before any argument on this matter one way or the other can make much sense.



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08 Oct 2022, 4:50 am

Being judged negatively and feeling devalued due to having various social difficulties has been the main blight on my life. It is the way of the world, (or at least as much of the world as I am familiar with) and not just certain hard nosed and opinionated women on line in forums about the opposite sex. People absolutely are massively judged on their social skills, verbal abilities, and quick wit (or not, as the case may be.)

It's been hard not to internalise all of this.

However, my late in life diagnosis at 51 is helping a great deal. Mainly because I finally understand why I am like I am now. If other people don't understand and judge, it often still hurts, but at least I have now a way of getting over this whenever it still happens.

Since my diagnosis my outlook on all things to do with people skills has swung on a pendulum from "I am Autistic so that's why I suck at this" (and I can't do much about it so I'm not even going to try and let's see how that goes) to "I can still learn / remember certain rules and tips that can improve various social situations"



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08 Oct 2022, 6:51 am

I doubt that most socially awkward people are “narcissists”. Equating awkwardness and narcissism is ridiculous.

Certain words are used far too often—“psychopath” and “narcissist” are prime examples.



cyberdad
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08 Oct 2022, 7:01 am

amykitten wrote:
As men who are social awkward are more likely to be narcissist so you got a bad deal tbf. Not saying all social awkward men are, but its more likely so women tend to avoid them.


That's an unfair generalisation.



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08 Oct 2022, 7:11 am

amykitten wrote:
As men who are social awkward are more likely to be narcissist so you got a bad deal tbf. Not saying all social awkward men are, but its more likely so women tend to avoid them.


That's an unusual perspective.

Based on what other women have told me about previous relationships it's the charismatic charming ones that tend to be more narcissistic. They reel you in with charm then drop the act once they've got you and then use you for whatever they want.

Socially Clueless men and women sometimes can't read their partner and accidentally ignore needs, but it's not the same thing. The way to tell if they're not selfish is if they are genuinely sorry for not noticing and want to work towards a solution.



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08 Oct 2022, 7:17 am

Someone on Twitter was talking about the uncanny valley effect us Neurodivergent people give off. It's like that Sophia robot. They've programmed some recognisable mannerisms into her, but it's still a bit off and in a noticeable way.

We make people uncomfortable. Most folks don't enjoy schadenfreude and it's painful for them to watch us car crash socially.

It is what it is. I've been fortunate enough to find my tribe with a bunch of oddball friends, but I know I still make normies uncomfortable.



kraftiekortie
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08 Oct 2022, 7:21 am

It’s an unfair and FALSE comparison.