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nellos121
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10 Aug 2007, 5:53 am

Personal opinion.

I accept I lack "Theory of Mind" of their minds, do they accept they lack "Theory of Mind" of my mind?



jijin
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10 Aug 2007, 5:57 am

Interesting hypothesis.

I'm not entirely sure NTs have a Theory of Mind at all. See the other thread about ToM.


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GhostsInTheWallpaper
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10 Aug 2007, 7:36 am

Ah...the truth that "autism experts" don't want you to know 'cause it will hurt their careers and credibility is that NTs very often make the same dumb mistake of assuming other people are like them that autistics supposedly make. Hence, we assume that when other NTs, or autistic-spectrum people (whose spectrum status we are usually not aware of so we assume they're NT), perform certain behaviors for roughly the same reason we would. Unless we're taught (often by experience) to think otherwise. So, if we get silent or are brutally honest when we're angry or trying to hurt someone's feelings, we assume Spectrum people - or other NTs whose temperaments lead them to be silent and brutally honest even when they're not angry - are doing the same, when really they're just being themselves, or even trying to be kind by letting us know the truth. (For the record, I'm one of those relatively silent and blunt NTs by nature, although if I'm thinking carefully enough I have learned to leave some things unsaid if necessary. I don't like to lie.)

It's hard for people who think and perceive very differently from one another to imagine how the other thinks and perceives. I've tried to use mental flexibility to imagine some of my AS bf's quirks, but it's just not easy to imagine the "binary thinking" and the experience of emotions on a one-dimensional scale of positive and negative. It can be kind of frustrating, because I really am curious what it would be like, and would want to be able to predict how something would make him feel. But if he feels things so differently...


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mariag
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10 Aug 2007, 11:44 am

GhostsInTheWallpaper wrote:
Ah...the truth that "autism experts" don't want you to know 'cause it will hurt their careers and credibility is that NTs very often make the same dumb mistake of assuming other people are like them that autistics supposedly make. Hence, we assume that when other NTs, or autistic-spectrum people (whose spectrum status we are usually not aware of so we assume they're NT), perform certain behaviors for roughly the same reason we would. Unless we're taught (often by experience) to think otherwise. So, if we get silent or are brutally honest when we're angry or trying to hurt someone's feelings, we assume Spectrum people - or other NTs whose temperaments lead them to be silent and brutally honest even when they're not angry - are doing the same, when really they're just being themselves, or even trying to be kind by letting us know the truth. (For the record, I'm one of those relatively silent and blunt NTs by nature, although if I'm thinking carefully enough I have learned to leave some things unsaid if necessary. I don't like to lie.)

It's hard for people who think and perceive very differently from one another to imagine how the other thinks and perceives. I've tried to use mental flexibility to imagine some of my AS bf's quirks, but it's just not easy to imagine the "binary thinking" and the experience of emotions on a one-dimensional scale of positive and negative. It can be kind of frustrating, because I really am curious what it would be like, and would want to be able to predict how something would make him feel. But if he feels things so differently...


I absolutely agree with you, i loved your message, i can relate completely with everything you said as I just felt the same with my ex (AS), and still do with my mum and sis who are Aspie too.
I´m a blunt NT like you said by nature, dont like to lie either, though I know when I better leave some things unsaid if necessary.

Thanks for your reply again, I couldnt have said it better, :wink:



Koldune
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10 Aug 2007, 11:49 am

One of the biggest land hardest essons I've learned (actually, I relearn it almost daily) in my dealings with others is that what's obvious to one person quite often isn't to another. I doubt it matters whether we're talking AS spectrum or NT, either.


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Zara
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10 Aug 2007, 11:54 am

I just thinking about this a bit ago.
Aren't the NT people routinely expecting everyone else to live the way they do? Aren't they assuming everyone does the same things they do?

So then aren't they the ones who lack a "Theory of Mind"? I thought that what it is from what I understood.



Aradford
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10 Aug 2007, 12:06 pm

Everyone does... It is absurd to think that anybody doesn't at some point in there life. Afterall we're all human.

I have come to the conclusion that I only know how I want to live and what I want. I can guess what others may want and may be correct.

The herd instinct tends to influence the majority to develop and become very uniform. Many people expect others to marry, get a family and work a full-time job etc.... It is just how society has developed.