Do you struggle to understand the societal structure?

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Adamantus
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28 Oct 2022, 2:10 pm

I think I need to understand the structure of society in order to cope. In the past it was just a simple pyramid of power but now it seems to be much more complicated, or no structure at all. How do you cope? How does it work now?



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29 Oct 2022, 11:09 am

I tend to focus on the small picture, not the big picture. I just try to get by in my social situation. (I'm Autistic so I guess I shouldn't claim to really understand my social situation...but I try to get by, anyways.)


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04 Nov 2022, 1:47 am

Yes and the struggle had become more real since before the pandemic. I’m having a terrible time adapting to all the changes and the new way most people are behaving. They’re more cold and rude and always in a hurry and no patience for anyone or anything. I notice things most people don’t and I’m very intuitive and also I’m an energy sponge and lately I’ve been having to spend a lot of time alone because most peoples energy is so negative I can’t deal with it. I was in sore last week and the lady working accused me of stealing a bra. I couldn’t believe she was serious so I pulled my shirt up and told her, look I don’t have your bra. If accusing an innocent person of stealing I don’t want to be like her. She’s supposedly normal? Ya right. LOL Then I’d be looking at something and she’d yell across the store, you don’t need that, you won’t like it. I’d try to talk and she’d either talk over me or finish my sentences. Oh boy when I got home I was tore up from being around her. It took me a few days to recover from it. I could she had too much testosterone was why she’s so aggressive and rude. I’m told I’m rude often because I’m blunt but this was a truly rude loud person



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04 Nov 2022, 5:17 pm

Don't know, I've never tried. When I worked at the university I often didn't know who was who in the pecking order, and didn't want to know. There were exceptions, but generally speaking I just treated everybody like an equal.

I'm somewhat attracted to fathoming the power structure of an organisation if the plan is to manipulate or subvert it, but I've never seriously had any such plans.

As for other things about the relations between others, it's much the same. I understand that group members tend to stick together if an outsider threatens them, but I rarely threaten anybody. Apart from that, I usually see people as individuals rather than as members of a group. I'm not really a political animal, I just try to make friends on a one-to-one basis.



stratozyck
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04 Nov 2022, 10:42 pm

Adamantus wrote:
I think I need to understand the structure of society in order to cope. In the past it was just a simple pyramid of power but now it seems to be much more complicated, or no structure at all. How do you cope? How does it work now?


All societies are structured with the "Marxist Pyramid" so you were close - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_o ... ist_System

All societies work this way, even communist ones (something Marx didn't anticipate because he was an ideologue).

At the top are the people who own the means of production. The bottom is the people who work the means of production.

The middle part of the pyramid are the mechanisms by which the people at the top use to enforce the relationship status quo. This can be religion, the police, the military, laws, etc. Anything that enforces the people at the top's power and the people at the bottom's submission to the arrangement.

Most people in their lives will never meet someone at the top. The people are the top aren't the ones in a big house you drive by - they are the ones flying over the big house in a private jet.



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04 Nov 2022, 11:46 pm

stratozyck wrote:
All societies are structured with the "Marxist Pyramid" so you were close - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_o ... ist_System

I'm familiar with that. A strongly left-wing friend gave me a copy of it, with slightly modified artwork, entitled "A Wedding Cake For Prince Charles." I got the idea, but what use is it to ordinary people, except as one of many ways of showing how unequal and unfair the political system of nations is? Is that what the OP needs to know? That's not a rhetorical question, and no disdain meant about your post, I'm just not sure what the OP is asking for. I assumed something more local.



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04 Nov 2022, 11:54 pm

I've never really thought about the societal structure before. I just go about getting through each day the best that I can. I do wonder why some people want to cling onto traditional values regarding gender and gender roles, but that's about it.


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06 Nov 2022, 6:13 am

I worked with animals for years and understand power structure, can read it clearly in any room by watching other people's interactions. I don't know what you mean by societal structure... surely that is different in every level from family structure to structure of countries or even the world. If we take a look at history we can see people repeat the same behavior patterns over and over and that most societies only last a certain time before they break down and the cycle repeats itself yet again. People will always be human animals, their behavior will always be based on their animal characteristics. I have stopped worrying about things I can't control and try to focus on local, personal, and topics I can address and be helpful with ( think globally, act locally - sort of) I hope you are able to sort it out and find some kind of personal peace over it all!


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Adamantus
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06 Nov 2022, 7:18 am

autisticelders wrote:
I worked with animals for years and understand power structure, can read it clearly in any room by watching other people's interactions. I don't know what you mean by societal structure... surely that is different in every level from family structure to structure of countries or even the world. If we take a look at history we can see people repeat the same behavior patterns over and over and that most societies only last a certain time before they break down and the cycle repeats itself yet again. People will always be human animals, their behavior will always be based on their animal characteristics. I have stopped worrying about things I can't control and try to focus on local, personal, and topics I can address and be helpful with ( think globally, act locally - sort of) I hope you are able to sort it out and find some kind of personal peace over it all!


I suppose it's just the power structure and knowing where we stand in this society. In a dictatorship everyone knows where they stand but in western society / democracy I have no idea where I am.

Also, people talk about "equality", but people are not equal. Different people have different levels of intelligence, physical abilities, social abilities etc..



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13 Nov 2022, 6:51 am

not sure that in a dictatorship everybody knows where they stand, from the dictator we know where we stand but all the levels of the group that is being dictated to will still find various levels of power and works within the dictatorship, and of course power structures everywhere are constantly shifting. Maybe it would take a life time of study to comprehend all the stuff that goes on "behind the scenes". Interesting question/ thread/ topic. thanks for the post


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Adamantus
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13 Nov 2022, 7:16 am

autisticelders wrote:
not sure that in a dictatorship everybody knows where they stand, from the dictator we know where we stand but all the levels of the group that is being dictated to will still find various levels of power and works within the dictatorship, and of course power structures everywhere are constantly shifting. Maybe it would take a life time of study to comprehend all the stuff that goes on "behind the scenes". Interesting question/ thread/ topic. thanks for the post


But everyday people don't have any of that power.



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13 Nov 2022, 7:34 am

Vaguely. With the culture I'm born into, it can get more confusing.

And even if I know how or why the social structure works and exists, this also doesn't mean I know the "etiquettes" or what terms to use on interactions, or every unspoken whatever really...

The same thing with knowing feelings from knowing what to do with it.
Same thing with knowing that every convo has a starting point and an ending point, yet still doesn't know when or how to appropriately initiate and when or how to appropriately end one.


I just got lucky with my Sped teacher explaining me such.

And, knowing social structures and the hierarchies doesn't exactly encourage me to find an equal because taking account of those things are just (and always will be) unnatural to me.
Like a lot of things involving people, having to have to "remind" myself of the existence of such. :roll:


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Carl Friedrich Gauss
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13 Nov 2022, 2:10 pm

Maybe you need to read some books, just to get an idea of different perspectives. Because there is no exact answer to such questions. You have to find your answer. I read all answers above, but they are just starting point for you to think on.

I read some books on such issues and as one shared before, i guess, Marxism's answer is the best one so far. But it also has insufficiencies like other theories. Because it claims there is a center. But if you read Foucault or some other postmodernist people. You can see there may be no center.

In this case (social structure), there are many agents: power, biological instincts, beliefs, religion, psychology of crowds, and so on...



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13 Nov 2022, 2:36 pm

Yes I think a complete and utter dictatorship, although not necessarily simple, would be easier to understand than what we have here and now, which is very complicated. I view that as a dictatorship diluted by many things whose effectiveness depends on the context.

There's a quote attributed to John von Neumann:

You never understand things, you just get used to them.


The quote was referring to mathematics, but it's given me some comfort when I've applied it to a number of complicated matters I don't understand, and I think it may help people who try to understand societal structure.



princegeorge99999
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13 Nov 2022, 3:23 pm

I feel like I understand the structure more than the actual people. Structures make sense (even if they are evil or perpetuate injustice). Have you ever read any social theorists or political philosophy? Maybe you would be interested learn how different thinkers theorize about politics, economics, social groups, etc. When I read Karl Marx's "Capital" and learned his theories on commodification, Base & Superstructure, and other aspects of Political Economy, that was eye opening. I studied economics in college which was also eye opening. Maybe watch some Youtube videos about "decision theory" or "public choice theory". I'm just throwing things out there and from different perspectives so I don't sound biased. That's the other annoying part, so many people, especially NTs have agendas, whereas I think NDs are genuinely more interested in actually understanding how the stuff works without trying to become a new dictator.

Hopefully that makes sense. And I'm happy to elaborate and/or make reading & watching suggestions, this is a deep interest of mine.



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14 Nov 2022, 1:48 am

Reading

Niccolo Machiavelli
Thomas Hobbes
Jean Jacques Rousseau

Can be a good starting point. I guess.