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Minder
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11 Nov 2022, 11:53 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
Minder wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
magz wrote:
Surprisingly equal, especially taking into account Biden's low notes and the general tendency for president's party to do poorly in midterms.
I wonder what other factors contributed. Republican voters of the silent majority turning their backs on Trumpism but Republican party still proposing Trumpist candidates?
Just a wild guess.

Can’t be that wild of a guess since that’s exactly what all of the talking heads from various news media & commentary programs are saying pretty much word for word.

republicans misjudged how overturning abortion rights would be received by people as well as made fatal errors in doubling down on trump & trumpism that it appears most people are just done with.


I would also guess that a lot of younger people are motivated to vote by climate change. While the Democrat response to that hasn't been great, the Republicans are actively hostile to the idea.


That may have well contributed to the election, along with student loan relief. I watched a news story on t.v. that stated a majority of young voters below 25 years of age were engaged to participate to protect their student loan interests. If certain people got elected, they campaigned that they would do everything they could to stop the student loan relief process. That ticked off the youngest generation that could vote as it directly affected their future financial plans.


Yeah, that would have also had a pretty big effect. Folks who feel like the relief was a lifeline will obviously not want to give it up.

I think the GOP shot themselves in the foot with some of their rhetoric as well. Most self-identified conservatives, for instance, do support abortion in cases of rape, incest, or when the mother's life is in danger. But there were a fair number of GOP candidates who vowed to prohibit abortion in all cases, like Doug Mastriano. As a result, some conservatives may have chosen to vote for the opposition or just stay home, which can make a big difference in a close election.



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11 Nov 2022, 12:34 pm

If Republicans want people to get high pay jobs because they don't want living wages, then how do they expect people to go to college only to drown in debt? I don't understand their logic. College used to not be expensive, even with inflation. My mom worked and still was able to pay her tuition and this was the 1970s. She was also able to still pay her rent and other bills. Her parents helped some, she has no student debt. Even she thinks this is ridiculous what Republicans want and she is a boomer.


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Minder
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11 Nov 2022, 12:41 pm

League_Girl wrote:
If Republicans want people to get high pay jobs because they don't want living wages, then how do they expect people to go to college only to drown in debt? I don't understand their logic. College used to not be expensive, even with inflation. My mom worked and still was able to pay her tuition and this was the 1970s. She was also able to still pay her rent and other bills. Her parents helped some, she has no student debt. Even she thinks this is ridiculous what Republicans want and she is a boomer.


The irony being that people who have money are more likely to be conservative. But if it's hard for people to get money, they'll never become conservative.

Though my understanding is that the high college rates come, at least in part, from administrative bloat. Enrollment is dropping, and it's no surprise; a degree is expensive, and unless it's in the right field, is of limited usage in the job market. That said, a degree is still better than no degree, so young people find themselves in a bad situation.

I think we need to drop the idea that so many people should go to college. I'm not sure how to do this though, since a lot of companies expect applicants to have degrees even though those degrees are not really necessary.



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11 Nov 2022, 1:35 pm

League_Girl wrote:
If Republicans want people to get high pay jobs because they don't want living wages, then how do they expect people to go to college only to drown in debt? I don't understand their logic. College used to not be expensive, even with inflation. My mom worked and still was able to pay her tuition and this was the 1970s. She was also able to still pay her rent and other bills. Her parents helped some, she has no student debt. Even she thinks this is ridiculous what Republicans want and she is a boomer.

Similar classist system here in Canada, too.

A guy I know in his mid 50's paid $500-700/year for tuition at what is now the most prestigious University in Western Canada. Now the average is around $7000 or so depending on the program. Housing used to be a few hundred a month, and now it's $1800/mo to rent a studio apartment on campus. Gone are the days where someone can work a Summer job and then maybe part time weekends and exist as a full time student without accumulating significant student debt.

If it weren't so insanely expensive I'd be a student right now. But instead I've been thinking maybe I'll work mostly full time and register for one class at a time part time - at much higher per course tuition fees vs. taking a full course load.. but it allows you to work full time and keep a roof over your head.

Same same pile of BS, though.. people want an educated society, but then make education only for the rich.


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11 Nov 2022, 1:39 pm

League_Girl wrote:
If Republicans want people to get high pay jobs because they don't want living wages, then how do they expect people to go to college only to drown in debt? I don't understand their logic. College used to not be expensive, even with inflation. My mom worked and still was able to pay her tuition and this was the 1970s. She was also able to still pay her rent and other bills. Her parents helped some, she has no student debt. Even she thinks this is ridiculous what Republicans want and she is a boomer.

I suppose they want to de-subsidise it so that the many who can't afford it are forced to do menial jobs instead. There was a time when higher education was more or less open to all and filtered only by the academic merit of the would-be student, but they're rolling that back as fast as they can.



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11 Nov 2022, 2:29 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
If Republicans want people to get high pay jobs because they don't want living wages, then how do they expect people to go to college only to drown in debt? I don't understand their logic. College used to not be expensive, even with inflation. My mom worked and still was able to pay her tuition and this was the 1970s. She was also able to still pay her rent and other bills. Her parents helped some, she has no student debt. Even she thinks this is ridiculous what Republicans want and she is a boomer.

I suppose they want to de-subsidise it so that the many who can't afford it are forced to do menial jobs instead. There was a time when higher education was more or less open to all and filtered only by the academic merit of the would-be student, but they're rolling that back as fast as they can.


If they expect people to work menial jobs that pay low wages and not enough to live off of, then they can stop moaning about people being "lazy" and not working on skills to get a good pay job. How do they have the time if they need to work to stay off the streets and to even eat? They can't have their cake and eat it too. They can also stop moaning about the homeless too and blaming it on democrats.


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11 Nov 2022, 3:25 pm

League_Girl wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
If Republicans want people to get high pay jobs because they don't want living wages, then how do they expect people to go to college only to drown in debt? I don't understand their logic. College used to not be expensive, even with inflation. My mom worked and still was able to pay her tuition and this was the 1970s. She was also able to still pay her rent and other bills. Her parents helped some, she has no student debt. Even she thinks this is ridiculous what Republicans want and she is a boomer.

I suppose they want to de-subsidise it so that the many who can't afford it are forced to do menial jobs instead. There was a time when higher education was more or less open to all and filtered only by the academic merit of the would-be student, but they're rolling that back as fast as they can.


If they expect people to work menial jobs that pay low wages and not enough to live off of, then they can stop moaning about people being "lazy" and not working on skills to get a good pay job. How do they have the time if they need to work to stay off the streets and to even eat? They can't have their cake and eat it too. They can also stop moaning about the homeless too and blaming it on democrats.

They don't care.

Education, good paying jobs, healthcare etc are for them, their families, and their friends. They do not care one bit about the lower working class or people in poverty.

Their talking points about pulling oneself up by your bootstraps and becoming self reliant and building wealth + trickle down economic theory are complete BS intended to get gullible people to vote for them. That's it that's all.

Proof is in comparing what they say and what they do. Policies benefit the already wealthy at the continued expense of the working poor.


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11 Nov 2022, 6:25 pm

The House majority will likely be a narrow majority - regardless of party.

Still hopeful the DEMS will continue to retain House majorities. If teh GOP Wins (again narrowly) the House, let's remebr the half a dozen GOP House candidsates who won the 2022 Election - who are those GOPs Represenatives, who voted on such things as Biden’s gun safety legislation, and voted to impeach Trump.

In short, the "moderate" GOP members can be influential - provided that these half-dozen GOP members are willing to "reach across the aisle."



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11 Nov 2022, 7:18 pm

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12 Nov 2022, 5:25 am

Democratic Sen. Mark Kelly re-elected in Arizona, defeating Republican Blake Masters

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Democratic Sen. Mark Kelly is the winner of the Arizona Senate race, NBC News projects, defeating Blake Masters, a Republican backed by former President Donald Trump.

Kelly's projected victory on Friday comes three days after polls closed, and as Arizona officials continued counting ballots that were mailed or dropped off, particularly in the vote-rich Maricopa County, home to Phoenix. It gives Democrats 49 Senate seats, one short of securing a majority, with Nevada still counting votes and Georgia's contest headed to a Dec. 6 runoff.

Kelly ran as a moderate, breaking with President Joe Biden on issues like immigration as he sought to navigate headwinds generated by Biden’s low approval rating and widespread economic pain due to rising inflation. He promised to protect abortion rights and build on Democrats’ achievements in recent years, including laws to boost competition with China and to lower prescription drug costs.

Kelly carried moderates by a margin of 63% to 33% and independents by a margin of 55% to 39%, NBC News exit polls showed. Kelly won women by 12 points and lost men by 4 points. Kelly and Masters broke even with white voters but Kelly carried the state's large Latino electorate by 18 points, assuring his victory.


A Trump Backlash, Like All the Others - Noah Rothman for Commentary
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We’ve seen it before. Far too often, in fact. And so far, the cycle is playing out in predictable stages.

First, Donald Trump or his disciples turn in a poor performance at the polls, leaving the GOP to mourn the loss of what were winnable races. Next, the pundits, politicians, and institutions on the right that haven’t had much use for Trump in the recent past bury the president and his movement in condemnations. Even some sources ensconced in Trump’s orbit appear to share the establishmentarians’ concerns, but not so much that they want to incur consequences for echoing them on the record. So, they share them with reporters on the condition of anonymity.

That’s where we are today in the immediate aftermath of a depressing midterm cycle for Republicans in which voters sought to cleanse the landscape of Trump’s hand-picked cronies and neophytes. If the cycle continues as it has in the past, this outburst of recriminations will soon face a retrograde counterattack from the forces that owe their political relevance to Trump. In the end, the fear of alienating the Republican voters who make up the base of the party’s primary electorate usually wins out over the instinct to appeal to a broader universe of voters. Trump’s critics stifle. His fans posture as though they’ve won something. Everyone retreats to their respective corners, and the GOP goes on losing.

That’s what we might expect to see soon enough, though we haven’t seen it just yet. The backlash against Trumpism—focusing less on MAGA-flavored policy preferences and more on the surly affectation the former president cultivates in his mimics—is coming from some auspicious quarters.

Former Trump adviser Jason Miller, who joined a select few who spent election night in Trump’s company, doesn’t evince any compunction about telling reporters that he’s advising Trump to keep his head down for a while. “Georgia needs to be the focus of every Republican in the country right now,” Miller said of the forthcoming runoff election between Sen. Raphael Warnock and Hershel Walker.

Is Trump even capable of making a positive contribution to that cause? Former Trump-era Press Sec. Kayleigh McEnany doesn’t think so. “I think he needs to put it on pause,” she told reporters. “I think we’ve got to make strategic calculations.” By contrast, she added, “Gov. DeSantis, I think he should be welcomed to the state, given what happened last night. You’ve got to look at the realities on the ground.”

The acute threat these admonitions present to Trump’s ego are unlikely to go unanswered. And, according to Jonathan Swan’s reporting in Axios, they won’t. While many of the courtiers caught in the former president’s realm are reportedly begging Trump to postpone a presidential announcement until the heat dies down, “he has no intention of listening to that advice.” And why should he? If Trump is looking for evidence that this burst of enthusiasm will fade like all the rest, he is getting the familiar feedback he needs.

“Several well-known Republicans declined an opportunity to tell Swan on the record that they feel it’s time to move on from Trump,” Axios reported. Indeed, the dispatches that reporters are filing from Mar-a-Lago are replete with unsourced quotes from people close to Trump who would not otherwise speak candidly about their boss’s predicament. And aspiring Republican ladder-climbers seem unwilling to give up.

In statements provided to the New York Times upon the paper’s solicitation, some MAGA-friendly current and future lawmakers turned in lifeless and perfunctory but nevertheless illustrative endorsements of their embattled leader.

“It is time for Republicans to unite around the most popular Republican in America who has a proven track record of conservative governance,” read Rep. Elise Stefanik’s endorsement of Trump’s presumed 2024 campaign.

The nature of this particular backlash against Trump feels different only because it is occurring alongside the emergence of a real competing power center inside the GOP. Within the ocean of disappointments for the GOP, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis presides over an island of hope. Previously, when the power dynamic inside the GOP was unipolar, Trump could weather intra-party criticisms. The rise of a rival pole within the Republican infrastructure complicates things for Trump.

The abject cowardice of Trump’s unnamed critics and his rote endorsers is frustratingly familiar to those who have seen similar anti-Trump insurrections put down.

Maybe this time is different. Who knows? But it doesn’t look different yet.


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13 Nov 2022, 7:57 am

Democrats maintain control of Senate, NBC News projects, defeating many Trump-backed Republicans

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Democrats defied historical trends and defeated several candidates backed by former President Donald Trump to keep control of the Senate, providing enormous relief for President Joe Biden.

The battle for the House, meanwhile, remains too close to call.

The picture in the Senate became clear late Saturday after Democratic Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada narrowly defeated Republican Adam Laxalt to win re-election, putting her party over the threshold, NBC News projected Saturday.

"Thank you, Nevada!" Cortez Masto said in a tweet Saturday evening after its two most populous counties, Clark and Washoe, finished counting mail-in ballots.

Democratic Sen. Mark Kelly of Arizona won his re-election contest in Arizona, NBC News projected Friday evening, directing all eyes to Nevada. Both Laxalt and Masters were endorsed by Trump and promoted his false claims about the presidential race he lost.

"I feel good for the country. Because so many people worried — I did — about this democracy," Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said at a news conference late Saturday. "America showed that we believe in our democracy. That the roots of our democracy are deep and strong. And that it will prevail as long as we fight for it."

He added that Republicans were hampered by "flawed challengers who had no faith in democracy, no fidelity to the truth or honor.”

Masto's victory means Democrats will hold the Senate regardless of the outcome of Georgia’s Dec. 6 runoff election, when Democratic Sen. Raphael Warnock and Republican Herschel Walker will face each other again after neither cleared the 50% threshold required under state law.

A Walker win would keep the Senate 50-50, where Vice President Kamala Harris casts the tie-breaking vote for Democrats.

A Warnock victory would make it 51-49, giving Democrats one extra vote in a chamber where they have often been stymied by internal dissent from members like Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia.

Biden can now count on partners in the Senate to confirm his judicial and administration appointments, even if his legislative agenda ends up effectively blocked because of a Republican takeover of the House.

“I feel good and I’m looking forward to the next couple years," Biden told reporters, reacting to the Senate result at close to 11 a.m. local time in Cambodia where the president is attending a summit of world leaders. He credited the quality of the candidates and said they were all "running on the same program."

Addressing whether Democrats can keep control of the House, Biden said it's "perilously close," adding, "we can win it, but whether we're going to win it remains to be seen."


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13 Nov 2022, 9:09 am

I genuinely believe Republicans miscalculated the impact of trumpism - not taking into account a group of voters that may not be particularily happy with Democrats but vividly opposing Trumpists.
A group that might have otherwise not voted at all, but trumpist candidates mobilised them to vote against them.


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13 Nov 2022, 12:08 pm

magz wrote:
I genuinely believe Republicans miscalculated the impact of trumpism - not taking into account a group of voters that may not be particularily happy with Democrats but vividly opposing Trumpists.
A group that might have otherwise not voted at all, but trumpist candidates mobilised them to vote against them.

Plus the group of republicans/conservatives that aren't necessarily usually pro democrat party or policies, but switched to voting for democratic candidates just to keep the conspiracy theorist trumpist republican candidates out of office.

It wasn't all just independents deciding to vote blue. There were plenty of long time republican voters going on the record with various reporters & polls to say they were voting democrat for the first time in years/decades/their lives.

Makes sense to me. We often vote similarly here in Canada and I'm sure others do around the world.. we don't necessarily vote for who we want, but rather, against who we don't want.


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13 Nov 2022, 12:13 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
we don't necessarily vote for who we want, but rather, against who we don't want.

True.


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13 Nov 2022, 12:14 pm

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13 Nov 2022, 1:41 pm

magz wrote:
I genuinely believe Republicans miscalculated the impact of trumpism - not taking into account a group of voters that may not be particularily happy with Democrats but vividly opposing Trumpists.
A group that might have otherwise not voted at all, but trumpist candidates mobilised them to vote against them.


I hear more younger generation voted than before, GenZ, so yes your vote does make a difference. If everyone thought "my vote won't make a difference" and not vote, Republicans would still be in power. But they all went and voted and because they thought "I'm going to vote against them because I'm pissed what is happening right now so I hope everyone else does the same."

This was why I made sure to vote this time and drop off my ballot. I would be a hypocrite if I didn't vote, then I would have no right to whine about Republicans and their BS laws they want to impose.


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Last edited by League_Girl on 13 Nov 2022, 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.