We are no longer allowed to protest in Britain. At all.

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kraftiekortie
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14 Nov 2022, 9:25 am

^I absolutely agree with what you say.



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14 Nov 2022, 9:36 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm not for all those idiots blocking roads, either. Let me emphasize.

And some of them are unemployed----whether by choice or by circumstance.

But I don't believe in getting rid of the right to peaceful protests, as long as it doesn't cause much inconvenience. People have a right to voice their grievances in a democratic society. We are heading along a not-so-good road towards something like dictatorship or absolutism. We must stem the tide. Democracy was the thing that enabled "progress" in the first place. And it enabled the perpetuation of "progress."

Under the Soviet system, as an example, there was brief "progress"----but the absolutism of minds lead to apathy and stagnation, and hence a slow, steady decline in "progress" within the Soviet Union. Vodka overtook working for a living.


Theyre not removing the right to peaceful protest. Hostile protest that puts people in danger and damages peoples incomes are the ones being targeted. They need to be kicked to the curb now.



kraftiekortie
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14 Nov 2022, 9:39 am

The potential is there for the police to abuse their powers. The intent of the law might not have been nasty----but there are cops, prosecutors, etc. who would interpret it in a nasty way.

This has happened in the US throughout history.


I understand folks who say "one thing can lead to another." This measure very well COULD lead to more drastic measures if the tide isn't turned.



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14 Nov 2022, 9:46 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The potential is there for the police to abuse their powers. The intent of the law might not have been nasty----but there are cops, prosecutors, etc. who would interpret it in a nasty way.

This has happened in the US throughout history.



Nope that's not happening. The jury decides and the police will have to arrest based on previous jury decisions.



kraftiekortie
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14 Nov 2022, 10:10 am

We have to hope those juries consist of people who have a sensible way of looking at things.



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14 Nov 2022, 10:45 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
We have to hope those juries consist of people who have a sensible way of looking at things.


Common sense isn't needed just yet with deciding what to do with them. Everyone who blocks a road, glue themelves to stuff and sprays paint during their protest needs to be punished.

Immediately outside of those criteria I imagine a juries will be generous with what they allow.



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14 Nov 2022, 10:48 am

Like I said, I don’t agree with the extremes in behavior you mentioned—but there are those who might believe moderate behaviors are “extreme.”



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14 Nov 2022, 10:24 pm

I consider blocking traffic passive aggression. People trying to travel that road have places to be, time is valuable. What if they have a business appointment that feeds their family? Or time sensitive cargo?

To me, peaceful protest is standing, holding signs, chanting and the like. No one is harmed, no one has their progress impeded.

Preventing someone from reaching a destination is not peaceful, it agitates them and causes bad feelings toward the cause as well as the protestors.


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auntblabby
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14 Nov 2022, 11:35 pm

blocking traffic is on the edge of being a guerilla tactic.



magz
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15 Nov 2022, 4:41 am

Persephone29 wrote:
To me, peaceful protest is standing, holding signs, chanting and the like. No one is harmed, no one has their progress impeded.

True.
However, when there are really a lot of protesters, they will naturally block traffic.

Still, when traffic blocking is not the intent...
Image
Headline translation: Life corridor during a protest. "Drivers should learn from them."


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15 Nov 2022, 5:07 am

magz wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
To me, peaceful protest is standing, holding signs, chanting and the like. No one is harmed, no one has their progress impeded.

True.
However, when there are really a lot of protesters, they will naturally block traffic.

Still, when traffic blocking is not the intent...
Image
Headline translation: Life corridor during a protest. "Drivers should learn from them."


Interesting post actually. A protest similar to the ones in your pics will almost certainly be allowed in the UK under this new law. Rather than say 10 protestors blocking traffic, thousands of protestors (a clear sign of public opinion) are protesting and letting emergency vehicles through.

Nothing wrong with that.

It's just tiny groups as low as two people who have almost none of the general public on their side intentionally causing huge disruption who will be ending up in prison.



magz
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15 Nov 2022, 5:37 am

^ Unless the jury were hardcore opponents of the protesters' cause, I'm afraid... it was about a divisive topic on the photos above.
Well, we don't have a jury system anyway and these protests were officially illegal because of covid restrictions of the time. I find it yet another plot twist in the whole discussion...


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16 Nov 2022, 10:12 am

In context: Public Order Bill - 26 October

Quote:

The bill to crack down on protests passed in the Commons last week by 283 votes to 234 – but why is it so controversial?

What’s in it?
Dubbed the anti-protest bill, the legislation aims to end any protests which are considered disruptive to public order. It does this by creating a new offence relating locking-on tactics deployed by protesters, extending police stop and search powers to allow officers to conduct suspicion-less searches, and introducing Serious Disruption Prevent Orders to prohibit individuals from attending protests or even being with particular people.

Why has it been brought forward?
Essentially the UK Government wants to put a stop to action by groups such as Extinction Rebellion or Just Stop Oil which have, in recent months, caused chaos. Cities have been brought to standstill and transport routes have been impacted by people gluing themselves to roads and other infrastructure in a bid to grab headlines for their cause. A ring of protesters even glued themselves in a chain around the Speaker’s chair in the Commons last month, and of course there is the notorious soup/Van Gogh incident.

Former home secretary Priti Patel, who introduced the bill in June, said it would put a stop to “criminal, disruptive and self-defeating guerrilla tactics, carried out by a selfish few in the name of protest”.

Who’s against it?
According to Suella Braverman, who was home secretary at the time the bill was ungoing its third reading, only “Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati” would argue against it. Only Conservative MPs and one independent voted for it though – Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems all voted against.

Some Tory backbenchers also raised concerns, though only three ultimately voted against the proposals.

Outside of parliament, human rights groups, climate activists, lawyers, faith groups and community organisations have also been critical of the bill. They warned it will have serious implications for free speech and the right to protest.

While the government insist it would not affect “peaceful protest”, organisations like Amnesty International say it will “create a significant chilling effect on our ability to stand up to power… as well as sweeping more and more people into the criminal justice system for doing so.”

Didn’t I hear something about abortion clinics?
Yes – one of the amendments supported by MPs will see buffer zones introduced around abortion clinics and hospitals in England and Wales. It would make it an offence to intimidate or harass women accessing abortion care.

What about strike action?
Another major part of the bill is to create a new offence on interfering with or obstructing national infrastructure. There have been concerns this would therefore cover, for example, the rail strikes which have seen multiple days with almost no train services.

But the bill is not intended to be used to respond to strike action – instead Braverman said the government is investigating other legal moves which would see a minimum service level requirement introduced to cover strike days.

Will the bill apply in Scotland?
Since the bill covers policing and transport matters – both devolved areas – none of it will apply in Scotland. However, as the SNP’s Joanna Cherry and Lib Dem Wendy Chamberlain pointed out in the debate, it will cover Scots when they travel south of the border to protest. It will also mean extra training is required for Police Scotland officers when they are deployed to police protests in England and Wales.

What happens next?
The bill still has to go through the House of Lords before it becomes law. Parts of it are likely to face significant opposition – for example the introduction of Serious Disruption Prevent Orders. The government previously tried to pass a similar measure to ban individuals from attending protests in its Police, Crime, Sentence and Courts Act, but that section was removed by an amendment in the Lords.

While the title of the thread is hyperbole this part “extending police stop and search powers to allow officers to conduct suspicion-less searches, and introducing Serious Disruption Prevent Orders to prohibit individuals from attending protests or even being with particular people.” is authoritarian. There is no way to put it.


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magz
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16 Nov 2022, 10:53 am

Quote:
According to Suella Braverman, who was home secretary at the time the bill was ungoing its third reading, only “Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati” would argue against it.
That's a red flag: attacking your critics instead of responding to their criticism.


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kraftiekortie
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16 Nov 2022, 11:01 am

Yep....very......Trumpian.....



magz
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16 Nov 2022, 11:40 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep....very......Trumpian.....

Not only. It's a general tactics of deepening polarisation.
Very damaging in the long run.


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