Do you trigger people but you don't know why?

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KitLily
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21 Nov 2022, 8:31 am

I'm not even sure how to put this.

My no. 1 talent seems to be choosing the exact topic that a person doesn't want to talk about, or hitting an emotional sore point which upsets them. It is very uncanny. It happens with friends, acquaintances, relatives, strangers. I always manage it.

e.g. I had a very scientific, logical friend online. I got the idea to talk about how religion causes wars and division between people. It just came into my head one day. It turned out the scientific friend was a devout Christian and so he got angry with me.

e.g. I had a friend online who liked motorsport, as I do. I got the idea to talk about how selfish humans were becoming, I suggested it was because not many people have children now which was making more people self centred. The friend was furious and said she wasn't going to have children, she thought the Me Me Me philosophy was the best one as it guaranteed success.

e.g. A very slim neighbour I knew fairly well had a 2 year old child. I saw her at the hairdressers and she had a noticeable bump. I thought she must be having another baby, so I excitedly asked if she was. She glared at me and said no.

I have dozens of other examples. For some reason I seem to intuitively pick up the exact, precise subject that will annoy and upset a person...with no intention whatsoever! I am trying to make conversation, and be pleasant and chatty. I never want to upset people...but 9/10 I do.

One time I even complimented an acquaintance about how nice she looked in her lovely brown leather jacket. 'What do you mean?' she hissed. 'This is an old jacket of my husband's!'

Does anyone else do this? I am thinking of changing my name to Rogue because my X Men power is destructive...


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ToughDiamond
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21 Nov 2022, 11:04 am

There was a time when people got angry with me here and there, but it hardly ever happens these days as far as I know. I suppose it's because I don't mix with so many people any more (since retiring I just stick with a few carefully-chosen folks, a luxury I couldn't afford back in the day). And I've probably learned from my experiences.

As for your examples:

1. Religion is a thorny issue with a lot of people. I suppose it's because they get a lot of their sense of validation from their particular religious persuasion and they can feel threatened if anybody questions that persuasion. I can't say I'm completely immune to feeling some anger myself at times when religionists air their views, but my anger is mostly confined to cases where the religionist is being dogmatic or (in the case of evangelists) using mind-control tricks. In recent times I've put a lot of thought into how to diplomatically criticise what they say, but it's not easy and I can get quite scared because of their tendency to take offense, and I suppose my fear may spill over into aggression if I'm not careful. I keep my mouth shut more often than I used to, but it goes against my grain not to be able to say what I think. Politics is a similarly thorny issue but I think religion is thornier. I'd have expected better from a scientist, because as long as people stay objective there's less of a problem with debating, but I guess scientists have their human weaknesses too.

2. I have some sympathy with your child-free friend, because I don't agree that not having kids is particularly associated with selfishness and I wouldn't like that suggestion if I'd chosen not to have kids, but I hope I'd have been able to debate the issue calmly. It seems that her anger made her reason take wings (a common result of strong feelings) if she fell into the trap of promoting selfishness as the best way to be.

3. and 4. I think female vanity can be very brittle. Your mistakes were understandable but it seems you touched that nerve and it must have been very frustrating to see how hard it can be to avoid that. It's hard for me to empathise with female vanity, I just note it as a very regrettable fact that I suppose stems from the traditional social view that a woman's job is just to look pretty. I tend to avoid commenting on people's appearance for that reason and for other reasons.

I suspect your experiences are down to a mixture of Aspie mind-blindness and the kind of inevitable mistakes that will always happen if the people concerned are too "normal."



lostonearth35
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21 Nov 2022, 11:13 am

I know why I trigger people. They can't stand my telling them the truth about how and why humanity is doomed because they're all a bunch of drooling Pollyannas living in an Egyptian river. They're so stupid and ignorant they probably don't even know who Pollyanna is or even the name of the Egyptian river I'm referring to.



kraftiekortie
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21 Nov 2022, 11:22 am

My mother gets triggered by me LOL



KitLily
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21 Nov 2022, 11:26 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
There was a time when people got angry with me here and there, but it hardly ever happens these days as far as I know. I suppose it's because I don't mix with so many people any more (since retiring I just stick with a few carefully-chosen folks, a luxury I couldn't afford back in the day). And I've probably learned from my experiences.

As for your examples:

1. Religion is a thorny issue with a lot of people...I'd have expected better from a scientist, because as long as people stay objective there's less of a problem with debating, but I guess scientists have their human weaknesses too.

2. I have some sympathy with your child-free friend, because I don't agree that not having kids is particularly associated with selfishness and I wouldn't like that suggestion if I'd chosen not to have kids, but I hope I'd have been able to debate the issue calmly. It seems that her anger made her reason take wings (a common result of strong feelings) if she fell into the trap of promoting selfishness as the best way to be.

3. and 4. I think female vanity can be very brittle.

I suspect your experiences are down to a mixture of Aspie mind-blindness and the kind of inevitable mistakes that will always happen if the people concerned are too "normal."


Yes, I assumed as a logical scientist, the guy wasn't religious! Usually scientists aren't.

With the childfree friend, I had absolutely no idea of her views on children. I thought she had children in fact, because she was in her late 30s. We were discussing 'Selfishness and Why People are Selfish', not whether people have children or not. I was just giving a logical reason for why I thought the world had got more selfish. I definitely wasn't targeting her, I was talking in general. But after that I did realise her entire life focused on herself, so we went our separate ways.

With 3 and 4, I thought I was giving a compliment. American women seem to like compliments and recommend giving compliments. British women however, do NOT. Brits generally hate compliments, so I've learned to ignore American advice and never, ever give compliments :roll: :roll:

But there are dozens more examples of me miraculously finding a person's weak sport completely without malice. I can't possibly list them all here.

I was just wondering how to turn this into a superpower and stop upsetting people. There must be a way.


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KitLily
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21 Nov 2022, 11:28 am

lostonearth35 wrote:
I know why I trigger people. They can't stand my telling them the truth about how and why humanity is doomed because they're all a bunch of drooling Pollyannas living in an Egyptian river. They're so stupid and ignorant they probably don't even know who Pollyanna is or even the name of the Egyptian river I'm referring to.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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KitLily
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21 Nov 2022, 11:29 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
My mother gets triggered by me LOL


Don't they all. I'm always making the wrong expression or saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing. If I do A she wants B. If I do B she wants A.
:roll: :roll:


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ToughDiamond
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21 Nov 2022, 2:11 pm

KitLily wrote:
Yes, I assumed as a logical scientist, the guy wasn't religious! Usually scientists aren't.

With the childfree friend, I had absolutely no idea of her views on children. I thought she had children in fact, because she was in her late 30s. We were discussing 'Selfishness and Why People are Selfish', not whether people have children or not. I was just giving a logical reason for why I thought the world had got more selfish. I definitely wasn't targeting her, I was talking in general. But after that I did realise her entire life focused on herself, so we went our separate ways.

With 3 and 4, I thought I was giving a compliment. American women seem to like compliments and recommend giving compliments. British women however, do NOT. Brits generally hate compliments, so I've learned to ignore American advice and never, ever give compliments :roll: :roll:

But there are dozens more examples of me miraculously finding a person's weak spot completely without malice. I can't possibly list them all here.

I was just wondering how to turn this into a superpower and stop upsetting people. There must be a way.


Surprisingly there are quite a few religious scientists. I met some in my workplace, but we rarely discussed religion. None of them were in the more intense religions though. I don't see how it would be possible to be a Pentecostal and a good scientist, but I read once that humans are able to somehow create a logic-tight barrier between inconsistent stuff in their heads. We aren't entirely rational beings.

I don't know what to make of your childfree ex-friend.

I didn't know there was a difference between British and American women about compliments. I tend not to much care what people look like so it rarely occurs to me to compliment anybody's appearance, and my idea of beauty is unusual so it would probably just arouse suspicion if I complimented them.

I can't think of a way of turning your weakness-finding trait into a benevolent thing, but it might make a good weapon to demoralise the unjust if you were pointed in the right direction.



KitLily
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22 Nov 2022, 4:11 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
I read once that humans are able to somehow create a logic-tight barrier between inconsistent stuff in their heads. We aren't entirely rational beings.

I don't know what to make of your childfree ex-friend.

I didn't know there was a difference between British and American women about compliments. I tend not to much care what people look like so it rarely occurs to me to compliment anybody's appearance, and my idea of beauty is unusual so it would probably just arouse suspicion if I complimented them.

I can't think of a way of turning your weakness-finding trait into a benevolent thing, but it might make a good weapon to demoralise the unjust if you were pointed in the right direction.


We aren't entirely rational beings...you don't say! :P But it does annoy me that we are expected to be logical and rational when we are basically animals.

I don't think logical is always the best way to be anyway. Instinct is often better- it is faster and more correct, e.g. when we are in danger, go with your instincts and get out of there. Don't waste time logically putting the pieces together. Also of course love isn't logical.

Yes I have noticed this. Americans are generally much more open and straightforward, they know how to give and take compliments, and how to talk clearly about their emotions. Brits could learn a hell of a lot from them. Brits have all these layers of what we should and shouldn't say e.g. we shouldn't take compliments because it's seen as big headed. We shouldn't give compliments in case they make people big headed. What a complicated and difficult social world Britain is! Especially for women. It's like treading on eggshells 24/7. At least British men tend to be more straightforward and call a spade a spade.

So anyway, I don't give compliments anymore, it's easier.

Maybe that's it. Point me at the bad guys and let me destroy them. Not a fun life but maybe I'll be useful one day. I am just like Rogue...


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temp1234
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22 Nov 2022, 6:05 am

I have a talent in making people uncomfortable in coversation, but in my case it seems to do with my weirdness in how I talk, tone of voice, facial expression, gesture, timing of talking, topic etc. I am always successful in silencing people and driving them away.

However, I wouldn't have made the mistakes you made in your four examples.

In 1 and 2, you criticize a certain group of people. I avoid criticizing people because criticizing people makes you look like a negative person. People may think that you are kind of person that badmouths others behind their backs. Also, like your examples, there is a risk that the person you are talking to may belong to the group you are criticizing.
In 3 and 4, you are commenting on people's appearance. I avoid making comments on people's appearance because it makes you look like a judgmental person. Even positive comments on how someone looks is unnecessary. Some people don't like others judging their appearance.

I'm not saying I'm better at making conversations than you are (I'm sure you are not as bad as I am), but in your examples, you made clear mistakes.

I do criticize people and talk about people's appearance on WP (such as criticizing fat people and trash), but that's a different story.



KitLily
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22 Nov 2022, 11:45 am

temp1234 wrote:
I have a talent in making people uncomfortable in coversation, but in my case it seems to do with my weirdness in how I talk, tone of voice, facial expression, gesture, timing of talking, topic etc. I am always successful in silencing people and driving them away.

However, I wouldn't have made the mistakes you made in your four examples.

In 1 and 2, you criticize a certain group of people. I avoid criticizing people because criticizing people makes you look like a negative person. People may think that you are kind of person that badmouths others behind their backs. Also, like your examples, there is a risk that the person you are talking to may belong to the group you are criticizing.
In 3 and 4, you are commenting on people's appearance. I avoid making comments on people's appearance because it makes you look like a judgmental person. Even positive comments on how someone looks is unnecessary. Some people don't like others judging their appearance.

I'm not saying I'm better at making conversations than you are (I'm sure you are not as bad as I am), but in your examples, you made clear mistakes.

I do criticize people and talk about people's appearance on WP (such as criticizing fat people and trash), but that's a different story.


Maybe it's my tone of voice or facial expression etc. too? I do wonder that sometimes because I often say exactly the same things as other people but my comments are ignored or mocked or people get angry. Why? I never know.

I don't think I made mistakes at all.

It's very, very well known that religion causes wars and division, much has been published about that. How is that criticising a group of people? If I'd said 'all religious people are nutters', that is criticising a group of people. But I didn't.

I was suggesting a reason that people are getting more selfish, how is that criticising a group of people? If I'd said 'all childfree people are selfish', that is criticising a group of people. But I didn't.

I was excited that my neighbour might be having a baby, how wonderful would that be!

I was complimenting someone about how nice they looked. Now that really was bizarre. Who wouldn't want a compliment? If I'd said how awful she looked, fair enough for her to take offence, but I was doing the opposite.

I don't talk about people's appearance generally except to give compliments.

But anyway, I keep myself to myself now. It's supposed to be 'actions speak louder than words' but in fact it's 'words speak louder than actions.' You can be the nicest, kindest person in the world but if you say one wrong word, you're cancelled :roll:

I also wonder why it seems to be fine for people to say horrible things to me but when I hit back, it's ME who is the bad one.


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kraftiekortie
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22 Nov 2022, 2:56 pm

I still give compliments. If somebody wants to be an idiot about it, that's their problem.



KitLily
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23 Nov 2022, 3:15 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I still give compliments. If somebody wants to be an idiot about it, that's their problem.


Yes...I stopped talking to that woman after the compliment incident. She took offence about everything, she ganged up with another woman against me, she was very difficult to talk to. She also refused to change her daughter's diet when the daughter had gluten allergy. She said 'it doesn't matter if she gets a bad tummy. It's easier than changing the whole family's diet to accommodate her.' Jeez.

Maybe if people react weirdly to my comments they're not the right friends for me? haha.


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23 Nov 2022, 12:57 pm

KitLily wrote:
We aren't entirely rational beings...you don't say! :P But it does annoy me that we are expected to be logical and rational when we are basically animals.

I don't think logical is always the best way to be anyway. Instinct is often better- it is faster and more correct, e.g. when we are in danger, go with your instincts and get out of there. Don't waste time logically putting the pieces together. Also of course love isn't logical.

Yes I have noticed this. Americans are generally much more open and straightforward, they know how to give and take compliments, and how to talk clearly about their emotions. Brits could learn a hell of a lot from them. Brits have all these layers of what we should and shouldn't say e.g. we shouldn't take compliments because it's seen as big headed. We shouldn't give compliments in case they make people big headed. What a complicated and difficult social world Britain is! Especially for women. It's like treading on eggshells 24/7. At least British men tend to be more straightforward and call a spade a spade.

So anyway, I don't give compliments anymore, it's easier.

I can't say I've noticed a difference, though my experience is limited to few people in a small number of places. Certainly that's the received-wisdom stereotype.

There may be one upside to it for Aspies though, if it exists:
For a start, I've noticed people in the U.K. tend to avoid eye contact very often, not just on the streets or on the bus among strangers, but also face to face ..

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showth ... ?t=5031388

No idea if that anecdotal snippet is correct or not, but it would very neatly explain why so many Americans here worry about pressure to give eye contact, and why I keep telling them they'll be fine if they ignore it.

This article isn't very good but I found one or two ideas in there that interested me:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2016 ... -bad-thing

According to that, it's less unhealthy to hide emotions where it's the cultural norm to do so. Another point it makes is:

Emotional suppression can occasionally have an upside. Take the so-called Blitz Spirit: showing stoicism and determination to carry on in the face of difficult situations, such the aftermath of the 7/7 bombings in London. Emotions can be contagious; expressing panic and distress in a context like this could be disastrous. If we see others just gritting their teeth and getting on with things, it can leave us feeling encouraged instead. Social support is known to be a buffer against mental illness.


Maybe Americans haven't yet realised that their country's safe days of rapid market expansion are over, while Britain's expansion curve hit the ceiling much earlier and the inhabitants know that their living standards are constantly under attack. It's not quite the directly panic-inducing environment of bombs and bullets of course.

Me, I feel reasonably healthy with regard to knowing and expressing my emotions. I usually notice them, and when I hide them I think there's usually a good reason. My happiness and sorrow are often caused by things that most others wouldn't relate to. I'm always on the lookout for exceptions. But take the current situation - if I opened up about my negative feelings towards Thanksgiving, or expressed my joy about having just cooked up a large batch of my mashed potato recipe that will give me an enjoyable, labour-free meal every day for the next 10 days, they'd put me away.

I do this thing to express my emotions, where I briefly appear to slightly fly off the handle at the slightest frustration, so I might growl or come out with a minor expletive in a slightly raised and animated voice, and come out with a bit of exaggerated sarcasm about the situation, rather than bottle it and risk building up internal pressure. It works for me, but I've noticed people can take it too seriously and start trying to help me as if I've seriously cried for help. In a way it's my own fault for overblowing my annoyance at obstacles to my perfect comfort, but it's very cathartic, and in theory I can always explain to others that I wasn't really being serious.



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23 Nov 2022, 3:23 pm

KitLily wrote:
I'm not even sure how to put this.

My no. 1 talent seems to be choosing the exact topic that a person doesn't want to talk about, or hitting an emotional sore point which upsets them. It is very uncanny. It happens with friends, acquaintances, relatives, strangers. I always manage it.

e.g. I had a very scientific, logical friend online. I got the idea to talk about how religion causes wars and division between people. It just came into my head one day. It turned out the scientific friend was a devout Christian and so he got angry with me.

e.g. I had a friend online who liked motorsport, as I do. I got the idea to talk about how selfish humans were becoming, I suggested it was because not many people have children now which was making more people self centred. The friend was furious and said she wasn't going to have children, she thought the Me Me Me philosophy was the best one as it guaranteed success.

e.g. A very slim neighbour I knew fairly well had a 2 year old child. I saw her at the hairdressers and she had a noticeable bump. I thought she must be having another baby, so I excitedly asked if she was. She glared at me and said no.

I have dozens of other examples. For some reason I seem to intuitively pick up the exact, precise subject that will annoy and upset a person...with no intention whatsoever! I am trying to make conversation, and be pleasant and chatty. I never want to upset people...but 9/10 I do.

One time I even complimented an acquaintance about how nice she looked in her lovely brown leather jacket. 'What do you mean?' she hissed. 'This is an old jacket of my husband's!'

Does anyone else do this? I am thinking of changing my name to Rogue because my X Men power is destructive...

My first thought was that you don't exactly bring up easy subjects.

You wrote that you wanted to discuss "how religion causes wars and division between people". This could mean that people think that you are a person who want to talk about how bad religion is. People can think that you want to ridicule people who have certain believes.
Also, I don't buy into what you wrote about wars. I think you are simplifying a lot...but that is not our topic right now.



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23 Nov 2022, 4:36 pm

yes and even afterwards i still dont understand why they are so offended

at work last week a coworker said he worked for the company a very long time so gets extra holiday days to take

i said "is that why your always on holiday " and he took offense and said he isnt always on holiday

umm but he does always seem to be on holiday like every month he has a week off


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