Indonesia to ban sex outside of marriage

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03 Dec 2022, 11:04 pm

In the "Western", "Civilized" countries the difference is legitimate reasons to be scared are considerably fewer, but they still very much exist. Whatever happened to #MeToo anyway?

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cyberdad
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04 Dec 2022, 12:29 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

As a gay man myself I wouldn't travel to any of these countries even if I was paid to go. As much hate as my own country gets from the world I know that there are much worst places out there than the US for somebody like me to have been born in.

One of the great contradictions in both Indonesia and Malaysia are the "Pondans". These are cross dressing men who sell their services to mostly muslim men. You also find versions of these men in Singapore, Thailand and Cambodia. They are extremely attractive.

I spoke to a muslim man who sought their services and was surprised. He said that in islam it is not "haram" to have relations with a pondan because they are men?? it's all overlooked by the religious police (who probably also seek their services).

This is my first time of hearing such a thing. Sounds rather interesting. I mean, I'm not actually attracted to cross-dressing men but as a cultural thing I think I would be interested in how that works and how they avoid being punished by the religious authorites.

Yes it fascinated me how the religious authorities mysteriously turn a blind eye to these men. I recall walking the streets of Kuala Lumpur and quickly my attention turns to an long legged attractive girl in a short skirt a few metres away. As I get closer it dawns on me "wait...those cheekbones". I can see why Kanye and Eddie Murphy found them attractive although I was never tempted myself.

IsabellaLinton
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04 Dec 2022, 12:31 am

^

Do they allow trans men as well? (Assigned female at birth)? Or is there a double standard?

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cyberdad
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04 Dec 2022, 12:34 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

^

Do they allow trans men as well? (Assigned female at birth)? Or is there a double standard?

Good question. I never delved into that topic while living there. I do suspect there is a double standard.

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04 Dec 2022, 12:40 am

cyberdad wrote:

I lived in Malaysia and they already have religious police who hunt for unmarried muslim couples. What Indonesia doesn't realise is these laws will impact on tourism, particularly young single/unmarried travellers in case they have to prove they are married if they are trying to check in as a defacto couple.

they may not even WANT the rest of the world as tourists.

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04 Dec 2022, 12:41 am

i would not visit such a backwards place.

IsabellaLinton
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04 Dec 2022, 12:53 am

Cyber,
If they push marriage so strongly do they also allow divorce, especially in the case of DV or marital abuse?

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cyberdad
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04 Dec 2022, 4:22 am

auntblabby wrote:

i would not visit such a backwards place.

I as more adventurous in my younger years. I kind of felt like a 19th century explorer (sorry that sounds somewhat demeaning). But I learned a lot of about life and was a different person when I returned to Oz.

cyberdad
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04 Dec 2022, 4:24 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Cyber,
If they push marriage so strongly do they also allow divorce, especially in the case of DV or marital abuse?

Oh yes that happens, but its quite rare compared to western countries. Mostly a middle class educated thing.
Traditional families and lower-middle class/village people stick it out because there is social stigma over divorce, especially as a lot of marriages are pre-arranged.

And yes, DV is a big problem but goes unreported. You can hear the screaming next door though.

naturalplastic
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04 Dec 2022, 5:08 am

cyberdad wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

i would not visit such a backwards place.

Sounds like an awesome experience.

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04 Dec 2022, 5:55 am

naturalplastic wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

i would not visit such a backwards place.

Sounds like an awesome experience.

Yes travel as a single person is a bit of an adventure, it opened my eyes to new experiences/perspectives.

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04 Dec 2022, 10:15 am

cyberdad wrote:

It's scary being a woman in the cultures that have deemed women to be subject to spousal and state control.

It's scary everywhere, on different levels. We must:

Always make sure we wear shoes we can run in if we have to.
Plan a route home that is 'safe' (we hope)
Text friends what we are doing, where we are going and when we are back safely.
Always reverse park when we go somewhere so if we are followed back to the car, we can just jump in and drive off without manoeuvring.
Always check the backseat of our car before we get in, in case someone is hiding there.
Carry a rape alarm ready to use just in case, but make sure not to set it off by accident or we could get blamed.
If we're in a taxi with friends, make sure we're not the last one to be dropped off in case the taxi driver takes advantage.
Be careful of our drinks on a night out (or even at a Christmas market, as happened to a friend of mine) in case they are spiked.
And many, many more...

I can't possibly list all the precautions women have to take but men don't think twice about.
And if we forget just one of these precautions, we leave ourselves open to attack...and all the 'why wasn't she doing X, Y or Z?' comments.

It seems we can't trust policemen either now. The murder of Sarah Everard scared the sh|t out of us.

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KitLily
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04 Dec 2022, 10:16 am

cyberdad wrote:

That is a bizarre double standard isn't it.

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KitLily
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04 Dec 2022, 10:19 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Whatever happened to #MeToo anyway?

It mysteriously fizzled out, probably due to being suppressed, not being taken seriously.

Who knows

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IsabellaLinton
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04 Dec 2022, 10:44 am

cyberdad wrote:

And yes, DV is a big problem but goes unreported. You can hear the screaming next door though.

Well that just ruined my day.

I can’t imagine going to a place like that. I’d be reporting it to police at every turn.

This is White Ribbon week so it makes it feel that much more traumatic.

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04 Dec 2022, 2:39 pm

A long time ago, there had been such laws in America. Spokane had had a law against "lewd and vicious cohabitation." When I was in high school, someone realized the law was actually still on the books after who knows how many years, and so out of embarrassment it was removed from the municipal legal code.

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