Indonesia to ban sex outside of marriage

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cyberdad
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04 Dec 2022, 3:25 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
A long time ago, there had been such laws in America. Spokane had had a law against "lewd and vicious cohabitation." When I was in high school, someone realized the law was actually still on the books after who knows how many years, and so out of embarrassment it was removed from the municipal legal code.


In fuedal England this law applied as well.



cyberdad
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04 Dec 2022, 3:30 pm

KitLily wrote:
Be careful of our drinks on a night out (or even at a Christmas market, as happened to a friend of mine) in case they are spiked.
And many, many more...


Yes christmas is very dangerous, There's a lot of work functions at the moment and women do need to be extra vigilant when stumbling back to the carpark. There is supposed to be a rule especially for young women to be chaperoned home but plenty insist they can get home themselves.



cyberdad
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04 Dec 2022, 3:36 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Well that just ruined my day.

I can’t imagine going to a place like that. I’d be reporting it to police at every turn.

This is White Ribbon week so it makes it feel that much more traumatic.


In traditional collectivist societies (this applies in all of Asia) there is an unwritten rule that you don't take family disputes into the public arena, This unfortunately includes a spouse reporting DV to the police.

In any case the police in these countries will not interfere in DV as they claim it's a family matter to resolve. There are numerous cases of police taking a battered wife back to her husband,



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04 Dec 2022, 8:47 pm

cyberdad wrote:
In any case the police in these countries will not interfere in DV as they claim it's a family matter to resolve. There are numerous cases of police taking a battered wife back to her husband,


It happens in the western world too. I owned my house, and police wouldn't evict the person despite DV. They said they had no jurisdiction to remove the person from my house against his will.

They said it was a family matter and I would have to go through court at $500 / hour, while the other person would get a free lawyer because he went bankrupt and had drug addictions.

The system is misogynist. They're more than happy to assume female victims of DV can "flee" or go to a shelter, because the sexist assumption is that these women don't own their houses and they have no assets to leave behind. If I had gone to a shelter he would have gained possession and ownership of my house.

I ended up going the family court route, where he was allowed to attempt suing me for spousal support, and he tried to take the house from me even though it was in my name. The grand total for getting rid of this scumbag was close to $200,000.00. No, we weren't even married.



Kraichgauer
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04 Dec 2022, 9:36 pm

^^^
:evil: :cry: :( :o 8O :?: :x


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cyberdad
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05 Dec 2022, 12:57 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In any case the police in these countries will not interfere in DV as they claim it's a family matter to resolve. There are numerous cases of police taking a battered wife back to her husband,


It happens in the western world too. I owned my house, and police wouldn't evict the person despite DV. They said they had no jurisdiction to remove the person from my house against his will.

They said it was a family matter and I would have to go through court at $500 / hour, while the other person would get a free lawyer because he went bankrupt and had drug addictions.

The system is misogynist. They're more than happy to assume female victims of DV can "flee" or go to a shelter, because the sexist assumption is that these women don't own their houses and they have no assets to leave behind. If I had gone to a shelter he would have gained possession and ownership of my house.

I ended up going the family court route, where he was allowed to attempt suing me for spousal support, and he tried to take the house from me even though it was in my name. The grand total for getting rid of this scumbag was close to $200,000.00. No, we weren't even married.


That is atrocious. What a malicious man. I hope you don't share any kids with him?



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05 Dec 2022, 7:15 am

cyberdad wrote:
Yes christmas is very dangerous, There's a lot of work functions at the moment and women do need to be extra vigilant when stumbling back to the carpark. There is supposed to be a rule especially for young women to be chaperoned home but plenty insist they can get home themselves.


Bear in mind that young women may not be safe with 'a chaperone.' Maybe that man is one of the dangerous ones, we can't tell. My friend was 'chaperoned' by a man once- he got out a knife. She managed to escape by running to her boyfriend's house (where knife-man was chaperoning her to).

***It is very, very important for women to realise that the 'in between' places are the most dangerous. Walking to/from work. Walking to/from our car. Walking to/from the bus/train. Waiting for the bus/train etc. These are the places where we are alone with no friends or supporters, the gaps in the safety net. Tell your female relatives/friends.***

I can't imagine why someone thought it was funny to spike the drink of a woman at a Christmas market FFS! What is wrong with people.

Yes...men can get drunk if they want and generally not be accosted or attacked. Some are but I think it is less likely because an angry, drunken man can do a lot of damage if he's attacked.

It's just the constant, constant, constant vigilance we women have to maintain. One slip...and we're done for. And all the naysayers pipe up with: 'why wasn't she doing XYZ? Why didn't she take the other route home? Why didn't she have a rape alarm?' Why why why why.

We went to buy our 16 year old daughter new ankle boots. She wanted some with pencil heels, very elegant. But I said no, she must have boots with low heels and grippy soles so she can run if necessary. She walks from her college to the bus in the dark, I want her to be able to sprint out of trouble if she has to, not break an ankle.

Vigilant, vigilant, vigilant you see.


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05 Dec 2022, 8:30 am

KitLily wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Yes christmas is very dangerous, There's a lot of work functions at the moment and women do need to be extra vigilant when stumbling back to the carpark. There is supposed to be a rule especially for young women to be chaperoned home but plenty insist they can get home themselves.


Bear in mind that young women may not be safe with 'a chaperone.' Maybe that man is one of the dangerous ones, we can't tell. My friend was 'chaperoned' by a man once- he got out a knife. She managed to escape by running to her boyfriend's house (where knife-man was chaperoning her to).

***It is very, very important for women to realise that the 'in between' places are the most dangerous. Walking to/from work. Walking to/from our car. Walking to/from the bus/train. Waiting for the bus/train etc. These are the places where we are alone with no friends or supporters, the gaps in the safety net. Tell your female relatives/friends.***

I can't imagine why someone thought it was funny to spike the drink of a woman at a Christmas market FFS! What is wrong with people.

Yes...men can get drunk if they want and generally not be accosted or attacked. Some are but I think it is less likely because an angry, drunken man can do a lot of damage if he's attacked.

It's just the constant, constant, constant vigilance we women have to maintain. One slip...and we're done for. And all the naysayers pipe up with: 'why wasn't she doing XYZ? Why didn't she take the other route home? Why didn't she have a rape alarm?' Why why why why.

We went to buy our 16 year old daughter new ankle boots. She wanted some with pencil heels, very elegant. But I said no, she must have boots with low heels and grippy soles so she can run if necessary. She walks from her college to the bus in the dark, I want her to be able to sprint out of trouble if she has to, not break an ankle.

Vigilant, vigilant, vigilant you see.


I get that women are more afraid but aren't most cases of rape committed by someone the victim knows rather than strangers on the street?



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05 Dec 2022, 11:50 am

Jono wrote:
I get that women are more afraid but aren't most cases of rape committed by someone the victim knows rather than strangers on the street?


It doesn't go straight to rape though, there is a vast range of nasty things that can happen that aren't rape:

Shouting abuse, groping, rubbing up against someone, name calling, throwing things, upskirting, general threatening, following, mugging, spraying something, spiking drinks, hitting.

Many more that I can't think of right now. These may seem trivial compared to rape but when you're alone/ at night/ in an unfamiliar place (or all 3), they are scary- we don't know what the man's intention is. What is his goal? Raping or killing us? Trying to be funny? Anything in between? One of the 'minor' offences can be the prelude to worse.

e.g. many times I've been going somewhere on my own/ at night/ in an unfamiliar place (or all 3) and a man has shouted 'ugly b**ch' at me, even approached to shout in my face. He turns to his gang of laughing mates, all jeering and mocking. I stop for a second in shock. What should I do? Run? Shout rude things back? Laugh? Erm... And what happens with each of those responses? If I run, would they chase me? If I shout rude things back, would it make them angry, or lead them on? If I laugh, is that giving the message that shouting rude things at women they don't know is fine and okay?

So many calculations to make in a split second. What. Should. I. Do?

And secondly, this sort of thing happens every day to women. Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time...

It gets wearing, tiring, it drains us. Every day, strangers on the street making rude comments or doing rude things to us. We are exhausted, yet have to be on the alert every second, just in case. Every. Second.


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Last edited by KitLily on 05 Dec 2022, 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KitLily
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05 Dec 2022, 11:57 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In any case the police in these countries will not interfere in DV as they claim it's a family matter to resolve. There are numerous cases of police taking a battered wife back to her husband,


It happens in the western world too. I owned my house, and police wouldn't evict the person despite DV. They said they had no jurisdiction to remove the person from my house against his will.

They said it was a family matter and I would have to go through court at $500 / hour, while the other person would get a free lawyer because he went bankrupt and had drug addictions.

The system is misogynist. They're more than happy to assume female victims of DV can "flee" or go to a shelter, because the sexist assumption is that these women don't own their houses and they have no assets to leave behind. If I had gone to a shelter he would have gained possession and ownership of my house.

I ended up going the family court route, where he was allowed to attempt suing me for spousal support, and he tried to take the house from me even though it was in my name. The grand total for getting rid of this scumbag was close to $200,000.00. No, we weren't even married.


That is disgraceful but I am not surprised. There is so much misogyny everywhere and we are supposed to just work with it, somehow!


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IsabellaLinton
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05 Dec 2022, 12:14 pm

It would have been easier if we were married, because the laws are more clear about division of assets etc. ^

My marriage was a whole other shite show when it came to divorce and equalisation. I owned my house in that case too, and he left after having an affair with a man (outside of our marriage, and he wasn't married to the man). I wonder what they'd say about that in Indonesia?



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05 Dec 2022, 12:22 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
It would have been easier if we were married, because the laws are more clear about division of assets etc. ^

My marriage was a whole other shite show when it came to divorce and equalisation. I owned my house in that case too, and he left after having an affair with a man (outside of our marriage, and he wasn't married to the man). I wonder what they'd say about that in Indonesia?


Yes but do you want to be married to a tosspot like that?

That would be a complicated one for Indonesia! Gosh.


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05 Dec 2022, 12:53 pm

No I don't want to be married to anyone.
That's why I prefer sex outside of marriage. :wink:



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05 Dec 2022, 3:32 pm

KitLily wrote:
We went to buy our 16 year old daughter new ankle boots. She wanted some with pencil heels, very elegant. But I said no, she must have boots with low heels and grippy soles so she can run if necessary. She walks from her college to the bus in the dark, I want her to be able to sprint out of trouble if she has to, not break an ankle.
.


My 17 year old walks to school, We buy her runners but she likes the old fashioned black school shoes. She knows about stranger danger, has a phone but of course....nothing in life



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05 Dec 2022, 3:41 pm

KitLily wrote:
I get that women are more afraid but aren't most cases of rape committed by someone the victim knows rather than strangers on the street?

It doesn't go straight to rape though, there is a vast range of nasty things that can happen that aren't rape:

Shouting abuse, groping, rubbing up against someone, name calling, throwing things, upskirting, general threatening, following, mugging, spraying something, spiking drinks, hitting.

Many more that I can't think of right now. These may seem trivial compared to rape but when you're alone/ at night/ in an unfamiliar place (or all 3), they are scary- we don't know what the man's intention is. What is his goal? Raping or killing us? Trying to be funny? Anything in between? One of the 'minor' offences can be the prelude to worse.

e.g. many times I've been going somewhere on my own/ at night/ in an unfamiliar place (or all 3) and a man has shouted 'ugly b**ch' at me, even approached to shout in my face. He turns to his gang of laughing mates, all jeering and mocking. I stop for a second in shock. What should I do? Run? Shout rude things back? Laugh? Erm... And what happens with each of those responses? If I run, would they chase me? If I shout rude things back, would it make them angry, or lead them on? If I laugh, is that giving the message that shouting rude things at women they don't know is fine and okay?

So many calculations to make in a split second. What. Should. I. Do?

And secondly, this sort of thing happens every day to women. Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time...

It gets wearing, tiring, it drains us. Every day, strangers on the street making rude comments or doing rude things to us. We are exhausted, yet have to be on the alert every second, just in case. Every. Second.





Thank you for such a brilliant post, Kit. ^

Image

I'd add exploitation, forced parenting, and trafficking to your list. Not to mention femicide.



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05 Dec 2022, 3:50 pm

KitLily wrote:

We went to buy our 16 year old daughter new ankle boots. She wanted some with pencil heels, very elegant. But I said no, she must have boots with low heels and grippy soles so she can run if necessary. She walks from her college to the bus in the dark, I want her to be able to sprint out of trouble if she has to, not break an ankle.


I wish they'd force abusers and rapists to wear pencil heels along with the ankle bracelet.
It would make a nice look and help give us the advantage.