A lot easier to find love if your gay?

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IsabellaLinton
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13 Dec 2022, 5:01 pm

It's not that I don't believe you. I just have a problem with social science statistics in general.
I don't know anyone who has ever been interviewed on any of these topics for autistic people.
I participated in a big research panel for the government but that was more about public policy.


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Nades
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13 Dec 2022, 5:04 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
It's not that I don't believe you. I just have a problem with social science statistics in general.
I don't know anyone who has ever been interviewed on any of these topics for autistic people.
I participated in a big research panel for the government but that was more about public policy.


Judging from what you said, it'll be highly unlikely you would have known about this study.



kraftiekortie
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13 Dec 2022, 5:09 pm

Social science studies don't apply to individuals.

I would NEVER go by the results of a social science study. I disregard them as not being applicable to ME. I'm not going to go by the results of this study, and conclude that "autistic men are less fertile than non-autistic men."

There are people who just don't want to have kids----it's not that they are INCAPABLE of having them. Both NT and autistic.

There happen to be many diagnosed autistic people on this Site who have children. And are raising them successfully. I happen to not have kids----but I could, before my prostate surgery, most definitely, father them. My testosterone is still in the "normal" range, even after my prostate surgery.



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13 Dec 2022, 5:10 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Social science studies don't apply to individuals.

I would NEVER go by the results of a social science study. I disregard them as not being applicable to ME. I'm not going to go by the results of this study, and conclude that "autistic men are less fertile than non-autistic men."

There are people who just don't want to have kids----it's not that they are INCAPABLE of having them. Both NT and autistic.

There happen to be many diagnosed autistic people on this Site who have children. And are raising them successfully. I happen to not have kids----but I could, before my prostate surgery, most definitely, father them. My testosterone is still in the "normal" range, even after my prostate surgery.


But Jamesy clearly isn't mentioning an individual. He's mentioning entire demographics of people as a whole which social sciences cover nicely.



naturalplastic
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13 Dec 2022, 5:20 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Where do they get those stats?
What about undiagnosed men who have kids?
Seems to me most men who get diagnosed as adults, do so because they have trouble dating.
That would skew the results.

(The ones who don't have trouble dating / being married don't necessarily bother getting assessed.)

Also were you queried in that study?
Were any of the men here interviewed?

It seems to me it can't be comprehensive.

Gawd. Do you also have doubts that 'water is wet' too?

I would guess that NT gay men marry more women and sire more kids than do straight autistic men.

A population of people who's most outstanding trait is social ineptitude are not going to do well in the dating game. That kinda self evident I would think.

Where are you coming from? Why is something as obvious as 'water being wet' so hard for you to accept as being likely to be true?



kraftiekortie
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13 Dec 2022, 5:21 pm

I don't use demographics to determine how to proceed in life.

Too many people here use demographics, and conclude things which might very well not be true as far as THEY are concerned. They might be "true" in the form of the composite. But individuals are not composites.



rse92
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13 Dec 2022, 5:24 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Social science studies don't apply to individuals.

I would NEVER go by the results of a social science study. I disregard them as not being applicable to ME. I'm not going to go by the results of this study, and conclude that "autistic men are less fertile than non-autistic men."

There are people who just don't want to have kids----it's not that they are INCAPABLE of having them. Both NT and autistic.

There happen to be many diagnosed autistic people on this Site who have children. And are raising them successfully. I happen to not have kids----but I could, before my prostate surgery, most definitely, father them. My testosterone is still in the "normal" range, even after my prostate surgery.



I am pretty sure you understand that fertility rate means the number of children birthed per man (or woman) over a population, and that you are being intentionally obtuse that it means capability of having children (if so, how could the ratio ever exceed 1 to 1?).

That being the case, if you had to bet your life that autistic men had on the average less children or as many children as non-autistic men, you know what you would choose. Social study or not.



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13 Dec 2022, 5:27 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't use demographics to determine how to proceed in life.

Too many people here use demographics, and conclude things which might very well not be true.


Extrapolate your reasoning though. You just said because you can do something then all autistics can or at least are capable of to some extent.

If this was about employment rather than fertility, I'm sure this reasoning of social studies being low quality will quickly fall to the wayside when pointing out the employment difficulties between in NT's and autistics here on WP.



kraftiekortie
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13 Dec 2022, 5:31 pm

It's irrelevant to me.

If I wanted to father a child, I would have.

I'm autistic, and I was fertile until I got my prostate removed. Autism did not affect my ability to father children. And it doesn't affect the ability of many other autistic men and women to have children. And I'm "classic" autistic, rather than having "Asperger's."

There are people on this site with multiple children.



rse92
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13 Dec 2022, 5:34 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
It's not that I don't believe you. I just have a problem with social science statistics in general.
I don't know anyone who has ever been interviewed on any of these topics for autistic people.
I participated in a big research panel for the government but that was more about public policy.


I guess I'd say the same thing. If you had to bet your life that autistic men had on the average less children or as many children as non-autistic men, you know what you would choose.

Some things are plainly obvious.

Signed, autistic father of two daughters.



rse92
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13 Dec 2022, 5:35 pm

I think if I posted here that the sun rises in the east, someone would post no it doesn't.



kraftiekortie
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13 Dec 2022, 5:39 pm

It does rise in the east.

Maybe it's true that autistic people, on average, have less children than non-autistic people. But I don't believe it has anything to do with their biology. It has to do with many factors other than biology. It might be biology if there is a co-morbid chromosomal disorder associated with their autism.

Therefore, when I, as an autistic person, read the results of these studies, I don't go by them. They are irrelevant to me.

I wish people would not believe that autistic people are "defective" in some way, because they are allegedly "less fertile" than non-autistic people.

This is the crux of the problem----this assumption of "defectiveness." An assumption that people with autism are genetically "defective." I am NOT genetically defective. I would be proud to pass my genes over to any kid I create with my woman.



Jamesy
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13 Dec 2022, 6:02 pm

Do people with Down syndrome have children of there own?



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13 Dec 2022, 6:06 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Do people with Down syndrome have children of there own?


They can but again it's unlikely due to their own social skills problems and the fact many people wouldn't want the social stigma of looking like they exploited someone with downs syndrome by having a kid with them.

I think they have overall issues with sperm and egg quality though.



kraftiekortie
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13 Dec 2022, 6:08 pm

A few Down Syndrome women have given birth to children. The percentage is very low, though. Probably because they have an extra chromosome. People with Down Syndrome almost always have 47 chromosomes instead of the usual 46 chromosomes. Every human being has 23 sets of chromosomes. The chromosomes are almost always arranged in pairs. People with Down Syndrome have three Chromosome 21's, instead of the usual two. This fact might be behind the reason why they usually cannot conceive children.



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13 Dec 2022, 6:13 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It does rise in the east.

Maybe it's true that autistic people, on average, have less children than non-autistic people. But I don't believe it has anything to do with their biology. It has to do with many factors other than biology. It might be biology if there is a co-morbid chromosomal disorder associated with their autism.

Therefore, when I, as an autistic person, read the results of these studies, I don't go by them. They are irrelevant to me.

I wish people would not believe that autistic people are "defective" in some way, because they are allegedly "less fertile" than non-autistic people.

This is the crux of the problem----this assumption of "defectiveness." An assumption that people with autism are genetically "defective." I am NOT genetically defective. I would be proud to pass my genes over to any kid I create with my woman.


Autism is certainly a defect though. I wouldn't want to have kids on the off chance it'll be autistic and have to endure a life of feeling alienated from society and not being able to feel connected with anyone.

How are we honestly going to improve our lives when we can't even admit the barriers in our way and the problems that have caused them?

(not looking at you) But it gets tiring when people here post about the barriers and hurdles autism have caused them on the dating market and then being immediately invalidated by people saying these problems don't exist and speaking of them might offend others on the forum who are having bigger issues with dating.

This is a theme that keeps rearing it's head here in L&D and the threads just turn into waffling drivel which doesn't even make any sense.