Mammon

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17 Dec 2022, 8:56 pm

Sunday Bible class
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he
will hate the one, and love the other; or else
he will hold to the one, and despise the other,
Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

So...what's mammon you ask?
money, material wealth, or any entity that promises wealth, and is associated with the greedy pursuit of gain.

In both Gospels the term is associated with unrighteousness and represents something that is at odds with service to God. Given that both passages are contextualized within a discussion of one's treasures in heaven, the word is usually understood as the acquisition of material wealth or the idolatry of material riches.

So how does this sit with the ultra capitalist pro-republican christian fundamentalists??
How does one claim to be christian but serve mammon??

Why do wealthy christians judge those who are poor as less/beneath than them?
Didn't jesus say "Whatever you do, to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me"?

DeathFlowerKing
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17 Dec 2022, 9:07 pm

I hate corrupt greedy people as much as anybody.

But I don't believe much in the bible or the teachings of Jesus. I'd rather worship flawed Gods and Goddesses of antiquity than be terrified and guilted into worshipping a God who pretends to be perfect when he's clearly anything but.

And frankly I think ALL Christians are the same. Not just the 'American' ones, every Christian Institution in Europe had a vile and sh***y history too. Sorry but not sorry for honestly feeling that way.

Texasmoneyman300
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17 Dec 2022, 9:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Personally I think the safest thing as a Christian is to belong to a church where all money and property is held in common in a community of goods like Acts 2 and Acts 4.I dont know if God will send people to Hell for investing money for retirement.I would give my trust fund away to my future church but my parents made that impossible for me in their will or whatever.My church teaches its members how to be multi-millionaires with Dave Ramsey but that does not feel right to me.

Last edited by Texasmoneyman300 on 17 Dec 2022, 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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17 Dec 2022, 9:26 pm

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

Personally I think the safest thing as a Christian is to live in a income and wealth sharing intentional Christian community with all money and assets held by the church.I would give all my trust fund away to the church but my parents wont let me do that after they die.

Almost all evangelical churches stipulate members share 10% of their wealth/income with the church. A number of sects demand more of their members. But Mammon is pretty powerful. One of the benefactors of a church my parents used to attend rented out one of his investment buildings to conduct church services. What the members didn't know is that he registered the building (which was 40 floors and only one floor was the church) as a place of worship so he paid no tax on the building. Basically he was making money out of being christian.

cyberdad
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17 Dec 2022, 9:28 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

And frankly I think ALL Christians are the same. Not just the 'American' ones, every Christian Institution in Europe had a vile and sh***y history too. Sorry but not sorry for honestly feeling that way.

Even though self-identifying as christian is no longer fashionable It is still the bedrock of most of the western hemipshere and the basis of much of the power structure.

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17 Dec 2022, 9:35 pm

cyberdad wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

Even though self-identifying as christian is no longer fashionable It is still the bedrock of most of the western hemipshere and the basis of much of the power structure.

And you know how they got that way? By destroying and oppressing people just like me all over the world. First it started in Europe when Emperor Charlemagne decided everyone he conquered in Europe would be forced into the conversion of Christianity under threat of death, then once it sunk into the way of life of Europeans they would spread this oppression to other parts of the world through colonization.

Bad Religion. :ninja:

Texasmoneyman300
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17 Dec 2022, 9:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

Interesting.My church does not require anyone to give anything to the church its just all free will offerings.Its up to the individual to decide how much to give at my church.You could put nothing in the plate every week and be in as good standing with the church as someone who gives 70 percent of their gross income to my church of Christ.

cyberdad
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17 Dec 2022, 9:55 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

Even though self-identifying as christian is no longer fashionable It is still the bedrock of most of the western hemipshere and the basis of much of the power structure.

Ill-gotten gains? I'm afraid the narrative you will hear is "we are not responsible for the sins of our fathers"
"Now, where is Gomez and Maria, we need our house cleaned, laundry done and cooking finished"

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17 Dec 2022, 9:57 pm

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

Most mainstream churches (Anglican and catholic) don't mandate donations (I think they called them tithes in the old days) which were collected by an usher during mass.

DeathFlowerKing
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17 Dec 2022, 10:07 pm

cyberdad wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

Even though self-identifying as christian is no longer fashionable It is still the bedrock of most of the western hemipshere and the basis of much of the power structure.

And all this comtempt many people like myself feel towards Christians is something they entirely brought on themselves.

Texasmoneyman300
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17 Dec 2022, 10:14 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

Most mainstream churches (Anglican and catholic) don't mandate donations (I think they called them tithes in the old days) which were collected by an usher during mass.

Okay interesting..I wonder who Jesus considers too rich for Heaven.I wonder if investing for retirement is a sin if you retire with 1 million net worth.I wonder if thats too rich for Jesus.I heard that the Mormon church requires you to turn your tax returns into the bishop every year or at least thats what I heard on the internet.

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17 Dec 2022, 10:29 pm

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

Being a christian is not mean't to be easy. If you read scripture it makes perfect sense. The more you desire material wealth, the harder it is for you to enter the kingdom of heaven. It's literally a mirror image of the buddhist mantras. where those who are unable to give up desire for materialism will find themselves reborn again and again and again.

Texasmoneyman300
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17 Dec 2022, 10:38 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

I know being a Christian is very hard.I.I would give all my money to the church but the thing is my parents wont let me give my trust fund away.Rich people are going to Hell but is one million dollars rich to you because its not even enough to retire on where I live.One million dollars just generates 30 to 50 thousand a year to live on for 30 years.I would just like enough money to live the middle class American Dream.

Last edited by Texasmoneyman300 on 17 Dec 2022, 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DeathFlowerKing
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17 Dec 2022, 10:46 pm

Don't worry, rich people aren't going to hell and neither are poor people. There is no hell.

Texasmoneyman300
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17 Dec 2022, 10:48 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

Don't worry, rich people aren't going to hell and neither are poor people. There is no hell.

Well as a Christian I believe that all billionaires are going to Hell most likely.Thats just my 2 cents.

techstepgenr8tion
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17 Dec 2022, 10:56 pm

I think in the end Darwinian fitness is what wins, and people will generally choose mammon if their fitness is being hampered by making any other choice. Some people will still chose to live by principle but they're outliers.

This seems to be a constant across history, it plays itself out with the beliefs of the times, and really the people who can rake in the most benefit are those who can lip-service the heck out of doing the good/right thing while doing anything but that and focusing strictly on their own gains (which then ends up in litanies of very personally gainful 'mistakes', 'accidents', or other claimed unintended consequences that lined their pockets quite well).

You could say the same thing about woke grifters, effective altruism grifters (eg. SBF), just about anyone who knows that saying the right things and pretending to do the right things wins you lots of bonus points while you're really just covertly doing what you wanted to do anyway and distorting reality to help yourself get what you wanted.

Sadly this is a big part as well of how 'pure replicator' types (ie. algorithmic climbers - effectively sociopaths playing life like it's a video game) end up doing well while honest people just get buried, treated like garbage, and barely seem to have a chance in life.

_________________
“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin

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