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What type of people allow a 5 year old to transition!?

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TwilightPrincess
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29 Jan 2023, 3:33 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
I believe the point of the thread isn't to have a thoughtful discussion about this issue, but instead just to cause hysteria.


Underrated comment.


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Silence23
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29 Jan 2023, 3:43 pm

Quantum duck wrote:
Also, Silence23, I’m guessing you know few or no transgender people that you are aware of, or only those who transitioned as adults and had minimal plastic surgery. My former students are good looking young men. If you saw them on the street, you would identify them as men. One has a gf who sees him as a man. One has a bf who sees him as a man. The one mtf student I had who started hormones before graduation looked distinctly feminine.


For most men it simply doesn't matter if another man can successfully mimic being a woman by using surgery and hormones. For them it's still a man. Even the average desperate 25 year old virgin men will not want to have a relationship with them. Though there are some men who have fetish for "lady boys".



Last edited by Silence23 on 29 Jan 2023, 3:54 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Dengashinobi
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29 Jan 2023, 3:48 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The vast majority of men are XY; the vast majority of women are XX.

If 99% of people’s sex chromosomes correspond to the birth sex, that would leave about 80 million people whose sex chromosomes do not correspond to their birth sex—quite a large number.


Apparently the number of intersex people is 0.022%–0.05% not 1%. That would be arround 1.76-4 million people. Also the majority of those are satisfied with their assigned gender.
Intersex and gender dysphoria are two different things. Gender dysphoria is a mental condition while intersex is a somatic anomaly.



magz
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29 Jan 2023, 3:55 pm

Just to make some terms clear:

Sex - biology, mainly biology of reproduction;
Gender - social-cultural level of "masculinity"/"feminity".


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cyberdad
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29 Jan 2023, 4:05 pm

It never ceases to amaze me how much right wingers stick their nose in other people's lives. This is a matter for the parents and the child, Sky News needs to butt out.



Dengashinobi
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29 Jan 2023, 4:25 pm

magz wrote:
Just to make some terms clear:

Sex - biology, mainly biology of reproduction;
Gender - social-cultural level of "masculinity"/"feminity".


No no, you got it wrong. Sex and gender in english are two words that explain the same thing, male and female.

Gender as an independent notion from sex is a cult specific woke newspeak neologism. Don't expect the rest of us to take it as a matter of fact.



TwilightPrincess
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29 Jan 2023, 4:31 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Just to make some terms clear:

Sex - biology, mainly biology of reproduction;
Gender - social-cultural level of "masculinity"/"feminity".


No no, you got it wrong. Sex and gender in english are two words that explain the same thing, male and female.

Gender as an independent notion from sex is a cult specific woke newspeak neologism. Don't expect the rest of us to take it as a matter of fact.


Actually, most people here know that “sex” and “gender” are words that mean different things.


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Dengashinobi
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29 Jan 2023, 4:36 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Just to make some terms clear:

Sex - biology, mainly biology of reproduction;
Gender - social-cultural level of "masculinity"/"feminity".


No no, you got it wrong. Sex and gender in english are two words that explain the same thing, male and female.

Gender as an independent notion from sex is a cult specific woke newspeak neologism. Don't expect the rest of us to take it as a matter of fact.


Actually, most people here know that “sex” and “gender” are words that mean different things.


They mean to you and others who hold or are influenced by woke beliefs. They font mean the same thing to the English language and to the rest of us.



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29 Jan 2023, 4:56 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:

You are talking about gender after offering research on studies done on the topic of transitioning. This is like offering scientific data about climate change but also believing the earth is flat. The idea of multiple genders is just pure lunacy. Supposedly there is even e field on that, "Gender studies". The lunacy has gone so far as to actually develop whole disciplines. But apparently there are schools which teach creationism so nothing new.

I can prove the Earth is round.

I can prove that there is more than one gender.

Please prove that this is "pure lunacy", otherwise you're just asserting a groundless opinion.


I'm not the one to assert anything. You are the one that claims that somehow magically there are more than one genders. You are the one who must prove it. Otherwise I can just dismiss it.

OK. I am a man. That's one gender. I used to be a boy. That's two genders. Women and girls exist. That's four genders. And people who don't fit into these categories also exist, and have done since time immemorial [1] [2] [3].

This isn't magic - it's an observed fact. There are many more genders than just one. "As many as there are people" is probably the most accurate approach, but not necessarily a useful one.
Dengashinobi wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
The vast majority of men are XY; the vast majority of women are XX.

If 99% of people’s sex chromosomes correspond to the birth sex, that would leave about 80 million people whose sex chromosomes do not correspond to their birth sex—quite a large number.


Apparently the number of intersex people is 0.022%–0.05% not 1%. That would be arround 1.76-4 million people. Also the majority of those are satisfied with their assigned gender.
Intersex and gender dysphoria are two different things. Gender dysphoria is a mental condition while intersex is a somatic anomaly.

The number of intersex people is significantly higher than that, because most intersex people have XX or XY chromosomes but are intersex for other reasons, like androgen insensitivity or PCOS (sex is of course another thing that exists along a spectrum - for example, testosterone levels, sperm counts, height, and body fat percentage are all things that vary even within cis men).



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29 Jan 2023, 5:07 pm

^ I'll have to disagree with each of the conclusions you have drawn.


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Dengashinobi
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29 Jan 2023, 5:39 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
OK. I am a man. That's one gender. I used to be a boy. That's two genders. Women and girls exist. That's four genders. And people who don't fit into these categories also exist, and have done since time immemorial [1] [2] [3].

This isn't magic - it's an observed fact. There are many more genders than just one. "As many as there are people" is probably the most accurate approach, but not necessarily a useful one.


You didn't explain anything yourself. You are just postulating that there are as many genders as they are individuals. But what exactly is a gender as opposed to sex as a woke idiom (because remember, gender and sex are two words that explain the same thing in English). You only posted three links and expect me to do the hard work of reading them and analise them without any contribution by you. Can you explain why gender is different from sex and why that is a fact in your own words?

Anyway I went briefly through them and there is nothing but postulatiouns, ambiguous wordplay and some questionable data. Like the one stating that in Dutch youth 4 point something percent of males and 3 point something of females self reports some level of gender dysphoria. That's nuts. Gender dysphoria is arround 0.005% to 0.014% in males and even more rare in females.

The_Walrus wrote:
The number of intersex people is significantly higher than that, because most intersex people have XX or XY chromosomes but are intersex for other reasons, like androgen insensitivity or PCOS (sex is of course another thing that exists along a spectrum - for example, testosterone levels, sperm counts, height, and body fat percentage are all things that vary even within cis men).


Not according to Wikipedia.



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29 Jan 2023, 6:42 pm

PragerU

:lmao:

Oh wow. I could make an entire thread about them.


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Quantum duck
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29 Jan 2023, 7:05 pm

Hang on, sex and gender mean the same thing, and gender is biology - so is biology genotype or phenotype? Because from a phenotype viewpoint those with xy chromosomes and androgen insensitivity are female, and from a genotype viewpoint, they are male, and you still haven’t told me which they are in your “no additional genders” view.

Also, Webster:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender

Which is a pretty authoritative reference for the English language.

Or is the English language not allowed to evolve? When did it freeze? If we invent new stuff, can we give it new names?



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29 Jan 2023, 7:08 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
PragerU

:lmao:

Oh wow. I could make an entire thread about them.


If people want to be taken seriously, they should probably avoid PragerU. They are known for manipulating data, logical fallacies, and general dishonesty.

They are good for a laugh, though!


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29 Jan 2023, 8:03 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
OK. I am a man. That's one gender. I used to be a boy. That's two genders. Women and girls exist. That's four genders. And people who don't fit into these categories also exist, and have done since time immemorial [1] [2] [3].

This isn't magic - it's an observed fact. There are many more genders than just one. "As many as there are people" is probably the most accurate approach, but not necessarily a useful one.


You didn't explain anything yourself. You are just postulating that there are as many genders as they are individuals. But what exactly is a gender as opposed to sex as a woke idiom (because remember, gender and sex are two words that explain the same thing in English). You only posted three links and expect me to do the hard work of reading them and analise them without any contribution by you. Can you explain why gender is different from sex and why that is a fact in your own words?

Anyway I went briefly through them and there is nothing but postulatiouns, ambiguous wordplay and some questionable data. Like the one stating that in Dutch youth 4 point something percent of males and 3 point something of females self reports some level of gender dysphoria. That's nuts. Gender dysphoria is arround 0.005% to 0.014% in males and even more rare in females.

The_Walrus wrote:
The number of intersex people is significantly higher than that, because most intersex people have XX or XY chromosomes but are intersex for other reasons, like androgen insensitivity or PCOS (sex is of course another thing that exists along a spectrum - for example, testosterone levels, sperm counts, height, and body fat percentage are all things that vary even within cis men).


Not according to Wikipedia.


Um, biologically there are just two genders; male and female. These days gender is becoming "how you feel" rather than your biology. I still go for the biology, like you don't need to conform to gender stereotypes to be that gender but you still are that sex.

People that are born with both female and male genitals...I don't know, I'll have to educate myself further on that one. But I think that is a medical malformation (sorry if that word is offensive, I'm not trying to be offensive, I just couldn't think of a better word because I'm stupid) or a gene glitch or something, I don't know.

If a person was born female but got a sex change to a male then that person is now a male. Same for people that are born males who got a sex change to a female, they're now females. That has been going on for years and it makes sense, so it isn't a contemporary woke/PC thing.


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TwilightPrincess
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29 Jan 2023, 8:08 pm

Gender is a spectrum that differs from biological sex.

Quote:
The World Health Organisation regional office for Europe describes sex as characteristics that are biologically defined, whereas gender is based on socially constructed features. They recognise that there are variations in how people experience gender based upon self-perception and expression, and how they behave.

Gender is increasingly understood as not binary but on a spectrum. Growing numbers of people are identifying as somewhere along a continuum between man and woman, or as non-gendered (neither man nor woman) (see Gender Spectrum). Therefore, they often have their own words to describe themselves rather than using pre-defined categories of male and female (for more information, see Gender Identity Workshop, Summary of Discussions). While more people are identifying as non-binary, this is not a new concept and has existed for many years across different cultures around the world.


https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environm ... 2019-02-21

I’m not sure if this article has been quoted yet, so sorry if it’s a repeat.


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