What type of people allow a 5 year old to transition!?

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magz
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31 Jan 2023, 12:09 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Is a woman interested in things not a woman?
Is a man interested in people not a man?
Have these "well documented studies" been tested against the WEIRD bias?
There are flactuations within each sex, this is an assessment on average. Of course you will find some men more interested in people than some women and some women more interested in things than some men. I'm talking about the general inclination of each sex, which would explain the cultural landscape of the difference in choice of profession for example. That would explain why men are more underepresented in some field's and why women are underepresented in other fields. There is a study that shows how in countries with a high standard of living, like Sweden, a country with a high standard of living and with a culture predisposed towards gender equality, this separation of choice of profession between the sexes was even more pronounced than in poorer countries with a more patriarcal culture. If economic stressors and societal stereotypes are diminished, people are more prone to do what they feel good about. And apparently the data shows men's and women's diference in choice of ocuppation becomes even sharper in such environments.
We can't completely cross the culture out unless we see these phenomena everywhere in the world (like e.g. we observe lower fertility rates after reaching some level of economic development).

And what do we do with all those people who are away from "average"?


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Dengashinobi
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31 Jan 2023, 1:09 pm

magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Is a woman interested in things not a woman?
Is a man interested in people not a man?
Have these "well documented studies" been tested against the WEIRD bias?
There are flactuations within each sex, this is an assessment on average. Of course you will find some men more interested in people than some women and some women more interested in things than some men. I'm talking about the general inclination of each sex, which would explain the cultural landscape of the difference in choice of profession for example. That would explain why men are more underepresented in some field's and why women are underepresented in other fields. There is a study that shows how in countries with a high standard of living, like Sweden, a country with a high standard of living and with a culture predisposed towards gender equality, this separation of choice of profession between the sexes was even more pronounced than in poorer countries with a more patriarcal culture. If economic stressors and societal stereotypes are diminished, people are more prone to do what they feel good about. And apparently the data shows men's and women's diference in choice of ocuppation becomes even sharper in such environments.
We can't completely cross the culture out unless we see these phenomena everywhere in the world (like e.g. we observe lower fertility rates after reaching some level of economic development).

And what do we do with all those people who are away from "average"?


We accommodate them, if we live in a relatively free society. If say a woman wants to work in a field dominated by Men, she can do that. Same for a man.



Silence23
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31 Jan 2023, 3:19 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
I believe that there are societal problems that need to be addressed. Intimidating people by cancelling them or calling them out, whichever term you prefer, is not a good way to do that.


Pressure on individuals to be conformist with even the most ridiculous ideas (e.g. some religious practices) probably was quite common even before written history begins.

I always thought that was a neurotypical thing to do however. Because it's quite stupid. It inhibits progress, cultural evolution, etc. It's a very conservative thing to do. By people who want everything to stay the same, by people who want to force their will on other people using methods of bullying, threats, etc.

I'm surprised there are autists who would defend this. Maybe it's some kind of Stockholm syndrome, where they side with those who bullied them when they were kids?

In my case, I was already non-conformist in elementary school, and became more and more non-conformist with age. Maybe it has something to do with the issues I had with my parents though.

Bullying me in an attempt to make me submissively submit to some social code will always result in defiant behaviour from my side. They might as well threaten me with murder if I didn't submit, and I'd still be defiant. Give me liberty or give me death.

So when I see people getting bullied because they don't conform to social codes, I typically automatically empathize with the "heretic", the "witch", the "unbeliever", the "outcast", etc. The group who attacks the individual for not complying with social codes, uses "forbidden" words etc, are the mentally backward and intolerant aggressors, who cause suffering and inihibit sociocultural evolution.



Dengashinobi
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31 Jan 2023, 4:41 pm

Silence23 wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I believe that there are societal problems that need to be addressed. Intimidating people by cancelling them or calling them out, whichever term you prefer, is not a good way to do that.


Pressure on individuals to be conformist with even the most ridiculous ideas (e.g. some religious practices) probably was quite common even before written history begins.

I always thought that was a neurotypical thing to do however. Because it's quite stupid. It inhibits progress, cultural evolution, etc. It's a very conservative thing to do. By people who want everything to stay the same, by people who want to force their will on other people using methods of bullying, threats, etc.

I'm surprised there are autists who would defend this. Maybe it's some kind of Stockholm syndrome, where they side with those who bullied them when they were kids?

In my case, I was already non-conformist in elementary school, and became more and more non-conformist with age. Maybe it has something to do with the issues I had with my parents though.

Bullying me in an attempt to make me submissively submit to some social code will always result in defiant behaviour from my side. They might as well threaten me with murder if I didn't submit, and I'd still be defiant. Give me liberty or give me death.

So when I see people getting bullied because they don't conform to social codes, I typically automatically empathize with the "heretic", the "witch", the "unbeliever", the "outcast", etc. The group who attacks the individual for not complying with social codes, uses "forbidden" words etc, are the mentally backward and intolerant aggressors, who cause suffering and inihibit sociocultural evolution.


Yeap, same here. I strongly identified with the word 'anticonformism' since I was about fourteen years old. Since then I've been that. I despise anything collective. I never understood NT's capacity for collective madness. You see immorality happen by seemingly good people just because are instictively following the euphoria of the group. I want no part in that.



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03 Feb 2023, 10:13 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Some people believe that gay people choose to be gay, but I don't believe that. I think gay people are born gay and it's not something you suddenly decide. But not being gay myself, I don't know for sure. But I know it's not a mental illness or a result of being abused. I think homosexuality is a natural thing.


I'm gay and I know that I didn't choose to be. Personally I went into puberty expecting to like boys and was quite surprised when that didn't happen. This can be a jarring experience. Even before puberty I had a picture of what my life was going to be like. It can take a bit of getting used to when what you're experiencing doesn't fit into what you assumed true of yourself. Not for everyone mind you, some people accept themselves right off the bat. I wasn't such a person. Some people search for a reason, an explanation as to why this is occurring. Which is why you sometimes hear gay people speculating that they are gay because of (external reason in their life). My reaction was to Google about it, which led me to various documentaries.

--- (This next part is more of a general post to the thread, rather than a directed reply like the above). ---

Back to the subject at hand, ultimately - this is just another internet forum discussion. Trans people are going to exist. They're out there - and here, on this forum. Most aren't Olympian athletes...since most people in general aren't Olympian athletes. Wouldn't it be great if we could find some miracle cure that could get rid of gender dysphoria instantly, making people feel comfortable with their birth sex? Sure. Boom. Problem solved. However, we don't have that and I sincerely doubt that's going to be a future possibility.

There's this weird tendency within these conversations to talk as if trans people are a hypothetical. Yet whether it suits your sensibilities or not, there are trans people in the world living their lives. People you do not know are trans. 'Oh, you can always tell!' no - I call nonsense on that one. When you try to enforce strict rules, such as the former North Carolina bathroom bill, you end up with situations where people who have transitioned are thrown out or treated in disgust when they follow the law. Essentially creating a situation where they can't win. They're not going anywhere - if you're expecting to have a conversation with a trans person that ends with the response "Wow, you're so right, I now feel connected with my birth sex, guess I'll just stop being being trans now!' - I have some bad news. :lol: (although you may get this response sarcastically mind you. :P )

Unless we're planning to have sex, I don't think someone's genitals are any of my business.


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