Cant tell if this person loves me or hates me?

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RacoKula
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08 Jan 2023, 11:25 am

I've been wanting to get thoughts/insight on a situation I've found myself in with an acquaintance. Sorry it's a bit of a scroller. None of you are expected to read the whole thing.

Firstly, I haven't known this guy for very long - 6 months at most. So I'm only just about learning how he works/interacts. He was brought into an online group by a mutual friend and at least in text, I thought we got along really well. We have very similar senses of humor and tastes. I suspect he may be untreated ADHD for various reasons but not sure if that's relevant to what I'm about to explain.
Problems arise when we're NOT just messaging. In group calls, etc, he will hardly ever talk to me directly. He'll usually respond if I say something to him, but not seek to engage me. The ONLY exception seems to be the few occasions where we found ourselves alone (either as teammates on a game or just waiting for everyone). Once again, when he actually tries I feel like we get along super well. Maybe he's just being polite and pretending to be interested in what I'm saying? He's a very sociable person and doesn't seem to have a hard time talking to anyone, so I guess it's possible him just being nice could seem like genuine friendliness, right?

It gets even worse when we're physically in each other's presence. Remember me saying he has no problems chatting to other people^^? If I actually think about the one or two times I've tried to talk to him face-to-face. It's impossible. He won't even look me in the eye. It usually starts off with me saying something, him acting like he's suddenly noticed I'm there. Maybe I'm just below his eyeline coz he'll then let me repeat whatever I said into his ear. Followed by a quick. "Heh. Right." And then walks away or talks to someone else.

So maybe he's just distracted by the other people around? I thought so. Except the other day we found ourselves suddenly in each other's presence: I had stupidly left an ASOS package at my office and was complaining about it in the group chat. He mentioned my office was near his gym. I joked I'd give him a bottle of Baileys I got as an unwanted XMas present if he got it for me. He agreed. I told him there was no need as I could get it another day. He insisted. Free Baileys for the delivery and all.
He showed up at my house after the gym with the package, seemed cheerful enough to see me. I tried to make small talk with him...but he was immediately distracted by the dog. I quickly gave up and tried to give him the bottle, but he wouldn't take it. Said I was literally on his way home and he couldn't accept the payment. Walked away before I could argue. I went back inside, feeling guilty that I'd made him pick up the package for nothing, and texted him that his actions were appreciated, thank you, but completely unnecessary.
His exact response: "NAH that was too much for me to ask. You'll buy me a drink next time we see each other. Night!"
So I'm not in the clear, right? I still need to buy him a drink next time? It wasn't a gesture of friendship? Idk I guess as soon as I think we're becoming friendly, he acts... dismissive? Distant? I don't know how to describe it exactly.
I guess I'm confused as to why he doesn't seem to have any trouble getting along with anyone else. Then there just seems to be this sudden chill when it comes to me. Clearly not meant, but I sense it.



klanka
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08 Jan 2023, 11:36 am

That's a sign of a toxic person, someone who is sociable talks to everyone else but ignores you.
It's an unconcious tactic to chip away at your self esteem.

It's so common that they have a word for it: triangulation.

.
You can sense coldness from that person, that is your gut telling you something is wrong.

The people who get involved with psychos always say they wished they trusted their gut instincts about someone.



Last edited by klanka on 08 Jan 2023, 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Quantum duck
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08 Jan 2023, 11:44 am

You are 33. How old is he?

Is he shy? Does he have much dating experience?

It actually sounds like he could have a crush on you and be having a hard time dealing with it/not sure how to approach you.



LeafyGenes
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08 Jan 2023, 3:08 pm

There's a book and a film called "He's just not that into you" that you might like.
Also, I think, if it hurts, it isn't love. I hope you meet someone nice soon.


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Mona Pereth
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08 Jan 2023, 4:51 pm

klanka wrote:
That's a sign of a toxic person, someone who is sociable talks to everyone else but ignores you.
It's an unconcious tactic to chip away at your self esteem.

Maybe, but we don't yet know anywhere near enough about him, or the situation, to jump to this conclusion.

So far, my own guesses are simply that, when he's in a group, either (1) there are other specific people whom he just happens to click with more, and whom he therefore pays more attention to, and/or, on the other hand, (2) when he's in a group chat, he prefers to focus more on getting to know people whom he's not yet in contact with privately.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 08 Jan 2023, 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mona Pereth
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08 Jan 2023, 4:56 pm

Quantum duck wrote:
You are 33. How old is he?

Is he shy? Does he have much dating experience?

It actually sounds like he could have a crush on you and be having a hard time dealing with it/not sure how to approach you.

This too sounds like a possibility, but we need more info about him before we can draw this conclusion.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 08 Jan 2023, 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mona Pereth
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08 Jan 2023, 6:19 pm

RacoKula wrote:
I've been wanting to get thoughts/insight on a situation I've found myself in with an acquaintance.

You describe him as an acquaintance. Is he, in any way, more to you than just an acquaintance? If so, how? For example, do you have a crush on him? Has he ever asked you out on a date? Is he a work colleague of yours? What, if anything, are you hoping for with him?

RacoKula wrote:
Sorry it's a bit of a scroller. None of you are expected to read the whole thing.

I've read the whole thing. I'm a firm believer in not responding to anything I can't be bothered to read.

RacoKula wrote:
Firstly, I haven't known this guy for very long - 6 months at most. So I'm only just about learning how he works/interacts. He was brought into an online group by a mutual friend and at least in text, I thought we got along really well. We have very similar senses of humor and tastes. I suspect he may be untreated ADHD for various reasons but not sure if that's relevant to what I'm about to explain.

It might be relevant. Attention issues certainly do affect a person's conversational style, including how they behave in group conversations vs. one-on-one conversations, or how they behave in in-person conversations vs. text-based chat.

RacoKula wrote:
Problems arise when we're NOT just messaging. In group calls, etc, he will hardly ever talk to me directly. He'll usually respond if I say something to him, but not seek to engage me.

Are there other people whom he does seek to engage in the group context?

If so, have you noticed any pattern as to whom he does or does not tend to focus on in a group context? For example, do the people he focuses on include the friend who brought him into the group? Or does he prefer to focus more on newcomers than on people whose private contact info he already has? Or does he prefer to focus on the most physically attractive people in the group? Does he prefer to focus more on men, or on women?

Personally, my own tendency in group chats is to focus primarily on newcomers. Many other people tend to be cliquish and focus primarily on the people they already know best.

Why is it a problem to you that he doesn't tend to address you directly in group chats?

RacoKula wrote:
The ONLY exception seems to be the few occasions where we found ourselves alone (either as teammates on a game or just waiting for everyone).

What kind of game are you referring to here? In-person games or online games?

RacoKula wrote:
Once again, when he actually tries I feel like we get along super well. Maybe he's just being polite and pretending to be interested in what I'm saying? He's a very sociable person and doesn't seem to have a hard time talking to anyone, so I guess it's possible him just being nice could seem like genuine friendliness, right?

That's possible. It's also possible that he genuinely likes you but there are other people in the group whom he likes better, or whom he feels more comfortable addressing in the group context for whatever reason.

You haven't yet told us enough to determine which of the above is the case.

RacoKula wrote:
It gets even worse when we're physically in each other's presence.

Have you ever been in his physical presence one-on-one, or just in the context of the afore-mentioned group? If so, what's his in-person behavior like one-on-one?

RacoKula wrote:
Remember me saying he has no problems chatting to other people^^? If I actually think about the one or two times I've tried to talk to him face-to-face. It's impossible. He won't even look me in the eye.

Many autistic people have difficulty with eye contact.

RacoKula wrote:
It usually starts off with me saying something, him acting like he's suddenly noticed I'm there. Maybe I'm just below his eyeline coz he'll then let me repeat whatever I said into his ear. Followed by a quick. "Heh. Right." And then walks away or talks to someone else.

So maybe he's just distracted by the other people around? I thought so. Except the other day we found ourselves suddenly in each other's presence: I had stupidly left an ASOS package at my office and was complaining about it in the group chat. He mentioned my office was near his gym. I joked I'd give him a bottle of Baileys I got as an unwanted XMas present if he got it for me. He agreed. I told him there was no need as I could get it another day. He insisted. Free Baileys for the delivery and all.
He showed up at my house after the gym with the package, seemed cheerful enough to see me. I tried to make small talk with him...but he was immediately distracted by the dog. I quickly gave up and tried to give him the bottle, but he wouldn't take it. Said I was literally on his way home and he couldn't accept the payment. Walked away before I could argue. I went back inside, feeling guilty that I'd made him pick up the package for nothing, and texted him that his actions were appreciated, thank you, but completely unnecessary.
His exact response: "NAH that was too much for me to ask. You'll buy me a drink next time we see each other. Night!"
So I'm not in the clear, right? I still need to buy him a drink next time? It wasn't a gesture of friendship?

Or he might just be taking literally your own repeated reluctance to accept the favor and your own repeated insistence on repaying the favor?

RacoKula wrote:
Idk I guess as soon as I think we're becoming friendly, he acts... dismissive? Distant? I don't know how to describe it exactly. I guess I'm confused as to why he doesn't seem to have any trouble getting along with anyone else. Then there just seems to be this sudden chill when it comes to me. Clearly not meant, but I sense it.

Are you sure he is really singling you out for what you describe as that "sudden chill"? Are you sure there are no other people in the group whom he is in contact with privately, but whom he tends not to engage directly in the context of the group?


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RacoKula
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08 Jan 2023, 7:20 pm

klanka wrote:
That's a sign of a toxic person, someone who is sociable talks to everyone else but ignores you.
It's an unconcious tactic to chip away at your self esteem.

It's so common that they have a word for it: triangulation.

.
You can sense coldness from that person, that is your gut telling you something is wrong.

The people who get involved with psychos always say they wished they trusted their gut instincts about someone.


I've never actually thought about this. Is there any particular way to tell if this is happening or things I could look out for?

Thing is about the gut feeling...I'm getting hot AND cold. If we was fully cold all the time I'd dismiss him outright. Part of me feels like he's just as unsure about me as I am of him.



RacoKula
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08 Jan 2023, 7:24 pm

Quantum duck wrote:
You are 33. How old is he?

Is he shy? Does he have much dating experience?

It actually sounds like he could have a crush on you and be having a hard time dealing with it/not sure how to approach you.


Not sure exactly but a few years older. At least 36?
He's definitely NOT shy. If anything I'd say he's quite popular/outgoing. People like him naturally and he is extremely friendly in return. If you're talking about how he is with women? I'm not sure. There are other women in the group but he treats them the same as the guys.

Funny you mentioned about that... two of our friends mentioned something similar on separate occasions.



RacoKula
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08 Jan 2023, 7:41 pm

Sorry Mona I'm trying to get through yours in as much detail as possible. Appreciate the thoughts.

Mona Pereth wrote:
You describe him as an acquaintance. Is he, in any way, more to you than just an acquaintance? If so, how? For example, do you have a crush on him? Has he ever asked you out on a date? Is he a work colleague of yours? What, if anything, are you hoping for with him?

I don't really know him well enough to make a firm decision, if that makes sense? He's an attractive/charismatic guy definitely but this kind of hot/cold attitude makes me question how much I want to interact with him at all.
He's joked about dating me, if that's anything.

Mona Pereth wrote:
Are there other people whom he does seek to engage in the group context?

If so, have you noticed any pattern as to whom he does or does not tend to focus on in a group context? For example, do the people he focuses on include the friend who brought him into the group? Or does he prefer to focus more on newcomers than on people whose private contact info he already has? Or does he prefer to focus on the most physically attractive people in the group? Does he prefer to focus more on men, or on women?

Personally, my own tendency in group chats is to focus primarily on newcomers. Many other people tend to be cliquish and focus primarily on the people they already know best.

Why is it a problem to you that he doesn't tend to address you directly in group chats?


He engages with everyone equally...except me. It makes me feel singled out occasionally. Like I said he would be popular so I feel like I get drowned out when he's there.

Mona Pereth wrote:
What kind of game are you referring to here? In-person games or online games?

Most of this is online.

Mona Pereth wrote:
That's possible. It's also possible that he genuinely likes you but there are other people in the group whom he likes better, or whom he feels more comfortable addressing in the group context for whatever reason.

This makes sense, yes.

Mona Pereth wrote:
Have you ever been in his physical presence one-on-one, or just in the context of the afore-mentioned group? If so, what's his in-person behavior like one-on-one?

The only time we've been together 1-1 was when he dropped off the parcel and spoke to the dog instead of me, hahah.

Mona Pereth wrote:
Many autistic people have difficulty with eye contact.

This occurred to me. I know I've had to train myself into it. But it's not something I've noticed with other people.

Mona Pereth wrote:
Or he might just be taking literally your own repeated reluctance to accept the favor and your own repeated insistence on repaying the favor?

You mean that he only mentioned buying a drink because I insisted something?

Mona Pereth wrote:
Are you sure he is really singling you out for what you describe as that "sudden chill"? Are you sure there are no other people in the group whom he is in contact with privately, but whom he tends not to engage directly in the context of the group?

I don't know for sure if there are other people he talks to privately. Probably his friend who brought him in. I DO know that there are some personal things he's told me that other people didn't know. He brought one or two up before and other people were visibly surprised.
He's also pretty equal in how he talks to other members. Again, this is why I see the contrast so clearly.



Mona Pereth
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08 Jan 2023, 8:01 pm

RacoKula wrote:
I don't know for sure if there are other people he talks to privately. Probably his friend who brought him in. I DO know that there are some personal things he's told me that other people didn't know.

Are you sure he hasn't told other people some of these things? How do you know?

In general, do you think it's likely that he has more private conversations with you than with anyone else in the group (except maybe the friend who brought him in)?

RacoKula wrote:
He brought one or two up before and other people were visibly surprised.
He's also pretty equal in how he talks to other members. Again, this is why I see the contrast so clearly.

If indeed you are correct that he has shared more things privately with you than with anyone else in the group, then perhaps either:

(1) he doesn't feel a need to address you in the group context, because he will have plenty of opportunities to talk to you later, privately, whereas he doesn't have those same opportunities with everyone else, or

(2) he might feel that he overshared with you, and hence perhaps might feel slightly embarrassed when talking to you. This might him feel slightly uncomfortable talking to you in the group context as if you were just another member of the group.

Another possibility I'm wondering about is whether you might have inadvertantly said something that offended him, and he hasn't confronted you about it yet.

How long have you felt singled out for being ignored by him in the group context? From the moment he first joined the group? Or did this suddenly start happening at some point? Was there a precipitating incident? Can you remember when he started ignoring you in the group context, and what else was happening at around that same time? Or was there no time when it suddenly started happening, but just a slowly-developing trend?


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RacoKula
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09 Jan 2023, 5:46 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Are you sure he hasn't told other people some of these things? How do you know?

In general, do you think it's likely that he has more private conversations with you than with anyone else in the group (except maybe the friend who brought him in)?


I guess I don't know 100%. But it's based on people's reactions when he finally says it to the group, together with an air of "please don't tell this to anyone" when he let some information slip.

Surprisingly...yes? Those conversations tend to be pretty sporadic but when we do finally chat it goes on forever and ranges from the usual jokes to more serious stuff.

Mona Pereth wrote:
If indeed you are correct that he has shared more things privately with you than with anyone else in the group, then perhaps either...

Yes I suppose either of these could be true.


Mona Pereth wrote:

Another possibility I'm wondering about is whether you might have inadvertantly said something that offended him, and he hasn't confronted you about it yet.


Actually from a previous comment and your own ideas, I DID start thinking about something I probably misinterpreted:

As a group, we have a sort of banter that involves some innuendoes/flirting/hyping each other up. I noticed quite quickly from some things I said and others said, that he DOES NOT like to be flirted with. Be it from me, the other girls, other guys. It's one of the few times he'll actually disengage completely from the group, or try to quickly change the subject. (innuendos or non-directed jokes are fine)

There was a point where, during one of our chats he was being hard on himself. I made an awkward attempt at assuring him that he's liked, a nice guy, etc etc. He quickly left the call after that and I felt he didn't want to speak to me for a few days. Eventually I messaged him to apologize. He assured me that he was just dealing with the emotional issues bringing him down and it wasn't me.
In fairness, he seemed to pull away from the group as a whole for a few weeks after that. He's back to himself now as far as I can see.

Mona Pereth wrote:
How long have you felt singled out for being ignored by him in the group context?

...HOWEVER, even with that situation in mind, I don't notice any difference in how he participates in the group. Like I described, fine over text. Mixed over calls. Completely impossible in person. The above happened in the middle of all this, so I was already feeling some weirdness before. We had also already met face-to-face and the behavior was the same weird moments of him acting like I wasn't there until I spoke directly to him. Have to say, he got a BIT better as he got drunk, but still would speak directly to other people in the circle and not me. Like I remember I made a joke that actually made him burst out laughing. He repeated the same joke to one of the other guys and went off on a tangent about it right in front of me, but didn't include me in the discourse.



Mona Pereth
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09 Jan 2023, 6:36 am

Perhaps, during your next private chat with him, you could just come out and say something to him like the following?

"I've noticed that you seem very uncomfortable with me in our group meetings. I would appreciate it very much if you could tell me exactly what, if anything, I've been doing that makes you feel uncomfortable, so I can stop doing it if possible. Also I get the feeling I might have inadvertently offended you in some way. If so, please let me know exactly what it was, so I can apologize or do whatever else is necessary to set it right."


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RacoKula
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09 Jan 2023, 11:28 am

That definitely would be a start. But what are the odds I'm going to get one of those NT responses that say things are ok even though they aren't?



Mona Pereth
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09 Jan 2023, 1:40 pm

RacoKula wrote:
That definitely would be a start. But what are the odds I'm going to get one of those NT responses that say things are ok even though they aren't?

If he responds that way, then perhaps say something like the following?

"If indeed nothing is wrong, then I would appreciate it very much if, when we are in the group together, you could stop treating me differently from the way you treat everyone else. It's not pleasant for me to be the one and only person in the group whom you tend to ignore. On the other hand, if something IS wrong, then please don't deny it just to spare my feelings. You are NOT, in fact, sparing my feelings by bad-vibing me endlessly in the group instead of just coming right out and telling me (privately) what your problem with me is."


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klanka
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09 Jan 2023, 4:19 pm

Hot/cold behaviour is the hallmark of the toxic abusive person.

Here's an article called 'why does the narcissist blow hot and cold'
It's written by an actual narcissist who describes what he does and why:
https://narcsite.com/2022/08/24/why-doe ... -part-1-5/

Reading these articles is the key to your freedom cos the confusing behaviours make you want to figure him out like a puzzle. But the articles give you all the answers so you'll not have to.

There are terms used in the articles that you'll have to learn like 'fuel' and 'ipps' .

And..

Quote:
He engages with everyone equally...except me. It makes me feel singled out occasionally. Like I said he would be popular so I feel like I get drowned out when he's there.

This isn't flirting or anything,if you got involved with this person this behaviour would continue and never stop.

Here's a quote from another article:
Quote:
Insider Jokes
We will engage in making comments which cause members of our devout coterie to laugh and giggle but you are left in the dark as to what is so funny. We will use terms that amuse us and our followers considerably but seem meaningless to you. This will make you feel uncomfortable and isolated and if you should commence some kind of protest we will point out that we have not involved you because you would be bored by the silliness (thus inferring you have no sense of humour but making it seem as if you are above our schoolboy sniggering and this is a good thing) or that you would not be interested in our style of humour because you are too highbrow for such base comments and observations.


Making you feel uncomfortable and isolated.
..