Why do people honestly hate capitalism so much now?

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DeathFlowerKing
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11 Jan 2023, 11:27 am

Is it because there's legit reasons for thinking it's the most "oppressive" system in the world or is it simply because certain naive types (aka 'useful idiots') of the West are being convinced that they have to hate it by the Marxist Propagandists spreading lies mixed with truths on the internet?

In the simplest way I can explain it, it seems to me that in a way we are repeating the history of when it was Communism vs Fascism vs Democracy in Europe during WW2. Only this time that idealogical battle for supremacy have come to the US.

Given how it nearly tore countries like Germany apart I guess we shall see how it works out for places like Ammmuurrica as we seem to be on the brink of another civil war thanks to our incompetent leaders and being a nation full of dangerous angry morons with easy access to guns. :roll:



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11 Jan 2023, 11:41 am

It's because hard workers are being treated unfairly. We are humans, but we are treated like robots.

The price of living has gone up. People are struggling to feed their families, heat their homes. Some can't even afford homes.

No matter how hard they work the profits are syphoned off by the richest of the rich.

They aren't being brainwashed that other systems are better. So far no system has been perfect. There is no alternative at the moment, but this isn't working. They see that their lives are not good under this structure.



Aspiegaming
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11 Jan 2023, 11:59 am

Capitalism solved the problems created by feudalism. In recent decades, it created problems of its own and our politicians think that to solve the problems created by capitalism is with more capitalism which is making everything worse.

More and more people are looking to socialism as the answers.

All the antisocialism news and propaganda you see are just products of the rich not willing to share any of the money and power they've accumulated.


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kraftiekortie
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11 Jan 2023, 12:49 pm

The UK certainly has got to get better with their heating and AC.



DeathFlowerKing
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11 Jan 2023, 1:52 pm

It seems to me like while Capitalism is failing people no doubt, they're basically becoming too eager to replace it with a system that was broken in most other countries.

What exactly makes people think that the US would somehow become the exception of implementing a 'successful' Marxist regime to replace capitalism?

Frankly I don't see it happening with us. If we're going to fix the system what we really need is to invent a new ideaology that would work for everyone.

Of course that's much easier said than done...



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11 Jan 2023, 1:57 pm

hurtloam wrote:
It's because hard workers are being treated unfairly. We are humans, but we are treated like robots.

The price of living has gone up. People are struggling to feed their families, heat their homes. Some can't even afford homes.

No matter how hard they work the profits are syphoned off by the richest of the rich.

They aren't being brainwashed that other systems are better. So far no system has been perfect. There is no alternative at the moment, but this isn't working. They see that their lives are not good under this structure.

Thx, saved me a lot of typing.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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11 Jan 2023, 2:07 pm

I'm going to say a thing as though it were a documentable, peer-reviewed, fact which is universally accepted as self evident; the problem is not any given economic system, the problem is the inherent sin nature of the humanity who do any given economic system. Therefore any and all economic systems will eventually become twisted by abuse.
Economic problems arise from the inherent nature of humanity and those economic problems will persist until the inherent nature of humanity is reversed.

And,

Using some manner of AI to manage economies is not the utopian answer it might seem at a surface look as that AI will have been created and deployed by that same humanity.


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The_Walrus
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11 Jan 2023, 2:36 pm

There are a few issues:

1) as always, Russia and China try to amplify existing divisions online. This particularly applies to big social media.

2) most people use "capitalism" as a shorthand for "the way things are right now", without considering economics, comparative politics, or history.

3) a subset of people do this as a deliberate motte and bailey - they sell you an agreeable premise ("society should be changed somewhat") as a way of getting you to buy their less agreeable conclusion ("we should try socialism again!").

4) general failure to identify the issues - i.e. blaming rich people in general, rather than landlords



DeathFlowerKing
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11 Jan 2023, 2:41 pm

^That all sounds about right. Especially this last one.


The_Walrus wrote:

4) general failure to identify the issues - i.e. blaming rich people in general, rather than landlords


That's pretty much how the French Revolution got kicked off and many people who didnt really deserve to die in this got sentence to the Guillotine.

I don't want anything like that to happen in my country...



goldfish21
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11 Jan 2023, 2:48 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
4) general failure to identify the issues - i.e. blaming rich people in general, rather than landlords


Mmhmm, because Most of the gains of the last half century going to the top <1% isn’t a major reason why plebs are pissed. :roll:

If people were paid fairly for the value they produced, wealth would be more evenly distributed, Billionaires wouldn’t exist, and we wouldn’t have the most extreme wealth divide in the recorded history of capitalism.

But okaaaaay, let’s not point fingers at the people hoarding most of the money supply when it must be the fault of landlords. Sure, some landlords are part of the problem, but it’s ridiculous to suggest that the very wealthy are not.


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DeathFlowerKing
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11 Jan 2023, 2:52 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
4) general failure to identify the issues - i.e. blaming rich people in general, rather than landlords


Mmhmm, because Most of the gains of the last half century going to the top <1% isn’t a major reason why plebs are pissed. :roll:

If people were paid fairly for the value they produced, wealth would be more evenly distributed, Billionaires wouldn’t exist, and we wouldn’t have the most extreme wealth divide in the recorded history of capitalism.

But okaaaaay, let’s not point fingers at the people hoarding most of the money supply when it must be the fault of landlords. Sure, some landlords are part of the problem, but it’s ridiculous to suggest that the very wealthy are not.



I'm sure they're not the only problem with with why our system collapsing.



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11 Jan 2023, 3:00 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
It's because hard workers are being treated unfairly. We are humans, but we are treated like robots.

The price of living has gone up. People are struggling to feed their families, heat their homes. Some can't even afford homes.

No matter how hard they work the profits are syphoned off by the richest of the rich.

They aren't being brainwashed that other systems are better. So far no system has been perfect. There is no alternative at the moment, but this isn't working. They see that their lives are not good under this structure.

Thx, saved me a lot of typing.


So I suppose that living under a totalitarian dictatorship which lies and refers to itself as The 'People's' Republic of anything is somehow the better alternative?



goldfish21
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11 Jan 2023, 4:37 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
4) general failure to identify the issues - i.e. blaming rich people in general, rather than landlords


Mmhmm, because Most of the gains of the last half century going to the top <1% isn’t a major reason why plebs are pissed. :roll:

If people were paid fairly for the value they produced, wealth would be more evenly distributed, Billionaires wouldn’t exist, and we wouldn’t have the most extreme wealth divide in the recorded history of capitalism.

But okaaaaay, let’s not point fingers at the people hoarding most of the money supply when it must be the fault of landlords. Sure, some landlords are part of the problem, but it’s ridiculous to suggest that the very wealthy are not.



I'm sure they're not the only problem with with why our system collapsing.


No, they’re not the only ones But they’re a significant source of the problem. Paretos law - they’re the vital few vs the trivial many. Just like other problems like the top 100 most polluting corporations in the world do more environmental damage than all humans combined. When solving problems, start with the biggest contributors to the problem.


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goldfish21
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11 Jan 2023, 4:37 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
It's because hard workers are being treated unfairly. We are humans, but we are treated like robots.

The price of living has gone up. People are struggling to feed their families, heat their homes. Some can't even afford homes.

No matter how hard they work the profits are syphoned off by the richest of the rich.

They aren't being brainwashed that other systems are better. So far no system has been perfect. There is no alternative at the moment, but this isn't working. They see that their lives are not good under this structure.

Thx, saved me a lot of typing.


So I suppose that living under a totalitarian dictatorship which lies and refers to itself as The 'People's' Republic of anything is somehow the better alternative?


Maybe that’s what you suppose but I never said that.


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DeathFlowerKing
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11 Jan 2023, 5:15 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
It's because hard workers are being treated unfairly. We are humans, but we are treated like robots.

The price of living has gone up. People are struggling to feed their families, heat their homes. Some can't even afford homes.

No matter how hard they work the profits are syphoned off by the richest of the rich.

They aren't being brainwashed that other systems are better. So far no system has been perfect. There is no alternative at the moment, but this isn't working. They see that their lives are not good under this structure.

Thx, saved me a lot of typing.


So I suppose that living under a totalitarian dictatorship which lies and refers to itself as The 'People's' Republic of anything is somehow the better alternative?


Maybe that’s what you suppose but I never said that.


No you didnt but we've seen this story repeat itself in other parts of the world in the last century. It's most likely what we're going to end up having happen to us.



goldfish21
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11 Jan 2023, 5:44 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
It's because hard workers are being treated unfairly. We are humans, but we are treated like robots.

The price of living has gone up. People are struggling to feed their families, heat their homes. Some can't even afford homes.

No matter how hard they work the profits are syphoned off by the richest of the rich.

They aren't being brainwashed that other systems are better. So far no system has been perfect. There is no alternative at the moment, but this isn't working. They see that their lives are not good under this structure.

Thx, saved me a lot of typing.


So I suppose that living under a totalitarian dictatorship which lies and refers to itself as The 'People's' Republic of anything is somehow the better alternative?


Maybe that’s what you suppose but I never said that.


No you didnt but we've seen this story repeat itself in other parts of the world in the last century. It's most likely what we're going to end up having happen to us.


If trumplestiltskin ever regained power, yeah, sure, that could happen.


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