Can you understand poetry as a person on the spectrum?

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naturalplastic
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16 Jan 2023, 12:30 pm

As well as the average NT does.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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16 Jan 2023, 2:07 pm

Just for fun, let's invert the question: "Can You Understand A Person On The Spectrum As A Poet?"


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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16 Jan 2023, 2:11 pm

And last night while not sleeping a railway poem learned of in a train book my parents gave me at end of the 1970s came to mind.

Web source, http://centralvermontrailway.blogspot.c ... veler.html
Which includes commentary relevant to this thread.

Quote:
Essex Junction is the location where a short branch to Burlington connects to the Central Vermont’s mainline. Until the late 1930s, that branch didn’t end at the CV main, it actually crossed itt as the Burlington & Lamoille branch of the CV (named after the original B&L RR).

As one of the key scenes on my layout I've done a lot of research on Essex Junction over the years. One of the most interesting things to turn up in my research is the following poem. (I'm not particularly into poetry . . . oh heck, I can't stand it and never read it after I finished school and didn't have to . . .) But the following goes to show just how classy this blog is - not just poetry but 19th century poetry no less.

A number of railroad towns have been immortalized in poetry and song over the years, and Essex Junction is no exception. The poem, “Lay of the Lost Traveler” is said to have been inspired when the author, the Honorable Edward J. Phelps, left Burlington on the so-called “shuttle train” for Boston via Essex Junction. He stepped off this train in Essex and waited for the arrival of the mainline train. The usual shifting of trains took place and Mr. Phelps, without inquiring, got on board the train he anticipated would take him to Boston. In fact, he had reboarded the “shuttle” train which promptly deposited Mr. Phelps back in Burlington, his starting point. There, on his arrival, he penned the following:


Quote:
The Lay of the Lost Traveler

With saddened eye and battered hat
And eye that told of black despair,
On wooden bench the traveler sat,
Cursing the fate that brought him there.
“Nine hours,” he cried, “we’ve lingered here
With thought intent on distant homes,
Waiting for that delusive train
That, always coming, never comes,
Till weary, worn
Distressed, forlorn
And paralyzed in every function!
I hope in hell
His soul my dwell
Who first invented Essex Junction!

“Here Boston waits for Ogdensburg
And Ogdensburg for Montreal,
And late New York tarrieth
And Saratoga hindereth all!
From far Atlantic’ wave-swept bays
To Mississippi’s turbid tide
All accidents, mishaps, delays,
Are gathered here and multiplied!
Oh, fellow man avoid this spot
As you would plague or Peter Funk shun!
And I hope in hell
His soul may dwell
Who first invented Essex Junction!

“And long and late conductors tell
Of trains delayed or late or slow,
Till the e’en the very engine’s bell
Takes up the cry, 'No go! No go!'
Oh! Let me from this hole depart,
By any route so’t be a lone one,”
He cried, with madness in his heart,
And jumped aboard a train – the wrong one.
And as he vanished in the smoke
He shouted with redoubled unction,
“I hope in hell
His soul may dwell
Who first invented Essex Junction!”


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skibum
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16 Jan 2023, 2:14 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Just for fun, let's invert the question: "Can You Understand A Person On The Spectrum As A Poet?"
I don't understand what you mean by that. But I have written magnificent poetry and many other Autistic people have as well.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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16 Jan 2023, 2:16 pm

skibum wrote:
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Just for fun, let's invert the question: "Can You Understand A Person On The Spectrum As A Poet?"
I don't understand what you mean by that. But I have written magnificent poetry and many other Autistic people have as well.


Perhaps a slight rearrangement would help?

"Can You As A Poet Understand A Person On The Spectrum?"


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Silence23
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16 Jan 2023, 3:27 pm

I felt extremely stupid when reading a book full of aphorisms. But typically I understand poetry. Also, I was high on cannabis when reading it. That didn't help :)



Last edited by Silence23 on 16 Jan 2023, 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kitesandtrainsandcats
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16 Jan 2023, 3:31 pm

Silence23 wrote:
I felt extremely stupid when reading a book full of aphorisms.


I just had to go look up what aphorism means!

Last time I can remember using or encountering that term was in school in the 1970s! :lol:


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16 Jan 2023, 4:56 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
skibum wrote:
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Just for fun, let's invert the question: "Can You Understand A Person On The Spectrum As A Poet?"
I don't understand what you mean by that. But I have written magnificent poetry and many other Autistic people have as well.


Perhaps a slight rearrangement would help?

"Can You As A Poet Understand A Person On The Spectrum?"
If specifically, me, yes. If any other poet, I guess it would depend on the poet. :D


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Gammeldans
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16 Jan 2023, 5:22 pm

Why are we supposed to be bad at interpreting poetry?

I think one of the biggest issue is all the reference used in poetry. Reading a poem from 1891 might be difficult for people nowadays because they won't get all the references.
I doubt that many people would understand this poem nowadays: https://johnirons.blogspot.com/2011/11/ ... f.html?m=1

The reference to guitar and accordion is probably not understood by most people nowadays.
I had to listen to people explaining it. Such a lovely poem. But I only line it when it is recited or sung.
This has nothing to do with ASD, I think.

I really disslike reading poetry. It must be recited or sung.


"They may have difficulties with interpreting both verbal and non-verbal language like gestures or tone of voice, or it may take them a little longer to understand. Some autistic people have a very literal understanding of language, and think people always mean exactly what they say. They may find it difficult to use or understand:

facial expressionstone of voicejokes and sarcasmvague or abstract concepts

These traits can express themselves in different ways. For instance, someone with Asperger syndrome may be very funny or sarcastic themselves, but they may not always pick up on sarcasm. 

People with Asperger syndrome usually have good language skills, but they may still find it hard to understand the expectations of others within conversations, perhaps repeating what the other person has just said (this is called echolalia) or talking at length about their own interests. "

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-gu ... they%20say.

When I read this I have to say that it sounds like they think that I cannot enjoy listening to people reciting poetry because I cannot understand prosody.
This is not true at all.
I can also see the emotions in people who recites with facial expressions.
This is very different from how people behave in a social situation.

But I guess interpreting things like Fawlty Towers can take longer time for us. We might not get social situations as quick as NTs but...I'm sure most NTs are confused about socializing and interpreting people or poetry or facial expressions.



Last edited by Gammeldans on 16 Jan 2023, 5:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

naturalplastic
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16 Jan 2023, 5:48 pm

Gammeldans wrote:
Why are we supposed to be bad at interpreting poetry?

I think one of the biggest issue is all the reference used in poetry. Reading a poem from 1891 might be difficult for people nowadays because they won't get all the references.
I doubt that many people would understand this poem nowadays: https://johnirons.blogspot.com/2011/11/ ... f.html?m=1

The reference to guitar and accordion is probably not understood by most people nowadays.
I had to listen to people explaining it. Such a lovely poem. But I only line it when it is recited or sung.
This has nothing to do with ASD, I think.

I really disslike reading poetry. It must be recited or sung.

I like the poem. It still stands up IMHO. Back then they only had accoustic guitars. They didnt have amplified electric guitars. And guitars were not used much in orchestral music either. So guitar music was associated with wistful quiet songs probably...in contrast to the roucass sound of a squeeze box.

But I get what you mean. Was thinking about this the other day. The fact that with some poetry you need a scholar to explain the references from another historic time in order to 'get it'.

What the OP was talking about was how autistics are supposed to be 'literal minded', and supposedly 'cant read between the lines' the way NTs do all of the time supposedly. So he is suggesting the autistics would be impaired in understanding poetry. Maybe. Maybe not.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 16 Jan 2023, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gammeldans
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16 Jan 2023, 6:04 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Gammeldans wrote:
Why are we supposed to be bad at interpreting poetry?

I think one of the biggest issue is all the reference used in poetry. Reading a poem from 1891 might be difficult for people nowadays because they won't get all the references.
I doubt that many people would understand this poem nowadays: https://johnirons.blogspot.com/2011/11/ ... f.html?m=1

The reference to guitar and accordion is probably not understood by most people nowadays.
I had to listen to people explaining it. Such a lovely poem. But I only line it when it is recited or sung.
This has nothing to do with ASD, I think.

I really disslike reading poetry. It must be recited or sung.

I like the poem. It still stands up IMHO. Back then they only had accoustic guitars. They didnt amplified electric guitars. And guitars were not used much in orchestral music either. So guitar music was associated with wistful quiet songs probably...in contrast to the roucass sound of a squeeze box.

But I get what you mean. Was thinking about this the other day. The fact that with some poetry you need a scholar to explain the references from another historic time in order to 'get it'.

What the OP was talking about was how autistics are supposed to be 'literal minded', and supposedly 'cant read between the lines' the way NTs do all of the time supposedly. So he is suggesting the autistics would be impaired in understanding poetry. Maybe. Maybe not.

Lovely interpretation. I also think guitar was more high status/class and accordion lower status back then.


I doubt that we are impaired in understanding poetry because of the difficulties reading between the lines or things like that.

I think most of us would not have much trouble with "My luve is like a red, red rose".

I guess some of us would have difficulties with "can you open the window?".



Last edited by Gammeldans on 16 Jan 2023, 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JustFoundHere
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16 Jan 2023, 6:07 pm

Considering my experience with the Autism Spectrum, I sense that even the slightest understanding of poetry depended on context of how poetry is presented.

For example, the context which resonated was the 1990s TV Series, 'Northern Exposure' - the radio-host in the TV Series often recited poetry. I sense the excellent writing, and quirky nature of the TV-series is what resonated most.

Excellent-point that people on the Autism Spectrum might find it challenging to understand the dynamics of poetry.

-----

Any people on the Autism Spectrum who's poetry was published? - Poetry receiving ample interest online?



Gammeldans
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16 Jan 2023, 6:18 pm

JustFoundHere wrote:
Considering my experience with the Autism Spectrum, I sense that even the slightest understanding of poetry depended on context of how poetry is presented.

For example, the context which resonated was the 1990s TV Series, 'Northern Exposure' - the radio-host in the TV Series often recited poetry. I sense the excellent writing, and quirky nature of the TV-series is what resonated most.

Excellent-point that people on the Autism Spectrum might find it challenging to understand the dynamics of poetry.

-----

Any people on the Autism Spectrum who's poetry was published? - Poetry receiving ample interest online?

I agree. When it is presented in a text it can be boring.
Like this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BpyosZg2WRw
I just watched it and laughed or smiled a bit. We interpret in our own ways.



naturalplastic
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16 Jan 2023, 8:13 pm

Gammeldans wrote:
JustFoundHere wrote:
Considering my experience with the Autism Spectrum, I sense that even the slightest understanding of poetry depended on context of how poetry is presented.

For example, the context which resonated was the 1990s TV Series, 'Northern Exposure' - the radio-host in the TV Series often recited poetry. I sense the excellent writing, and quirky nature of the TV-series is what resonated most.

Excellent-point that people on the Autism Spectrum might find it challenging to understand the dynamics of poetry.

-----

Any people on the Autism Spectrum who's poetry was published? - Poetry receiving ample interest online?

I agree. When it is presented in a text it can be boring.
Like this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BpyosZg2WRw
I just watched it and laughed or smiled a bit. We interpret in our own ways.


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16 Jan 2023, 9:21 pm

I understand the words
The metre and the verbs
I’ve studied it for years
For tranquil peace and tears


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17 Jan 2023, 3:10 am

I don't understand poetry that doesn't rhyme.

I do love 'Ode to Spot' by Lieutenant Commander Data in Star Trek: The Next Generation:

Felis Catus
is your taxonomic nomenclature
An endothermic quadruped
carniverous by nature
Your visual, olfactory,
and auditory senses
Contribute to your hunting skills
and natural defenses.
I find myself intrigued
by your sub-vocal oscillations
A singular development
of cat communications
That obviates your
basic hedonistic predilection
For a rhythmic stroking of your fur
to demonstrate affection.
A tail is quite essential
for your acrobatic talents
You would not be so agile
if you lacked its counterbalance
And when not being utilized
to aid in locomotion
It often serves to illustrate
the state of your emotion
Oh Spot,
The complex levels of behavior you display
Denote a fairly well developed cognitive array
And though you are not sentient, Spot, and do not comprehend
I nonetheless consider you a true and valued friend.