Aretha Franklin song ‘Natural Woman’ deemed offensive

Post Reply New Topic

That's been my argument the whole time, so I'm a little surprised at how you've just admitted it. If you know what I mean. (Not being snarky or anything, I'm just being logical).

I like women to feel that I'm a "natural man."

I had to watch Big Chill last night because of that song.

I lusted me some Kevin Kline.

I’m not sure what you mean.

I could never be as accomplished as those guys in the "Big Chill."

But at least I've done sort of okay, ultimately.

mmmmm Kevin


I was looking for the Natural Woman scene where he shags his wife’s friend but can’t find a link.

I wonder how "Kevin" looks in 2023.

idk

He’s one actor I’ve always found incredibly hot. I’m not usually into actors or celebrities unless they play a six string.

I wish I could find that scene. Weird it’s not available online considering it’s the climax of the film. No pun lol

Do you mean "transwoman" as in a person who was born a man but had a sex change, or do you mean it as in a woman who doesn't identify as a gender?
If you're talking about the former, yes I agree. In my eyes a man who has had a sex change to a woman (and vice versa) is a woman to me.
If you mean the latter then I'm surprised...

Transwoman means the person was assigned male at birth presumably because of a penis, but they are female / transition to being female either with medical and hormone treatment, or by their own gender expression and personal identity. It doesn’t have to involve a sex change operation. If the person was born to feel / be a transwoman then it’s natural because that’s how they were made.

Non-binary people are natural too, whether that means naturally non-binary or naturally fluid. I consider myself a "natural woman" even though my self-perception has always been quite genderless. I view myself as a human being before any other subcategory. Still, that's a natural variation for women and it's the way my brain was born. I think it's natural that I view myself as a human being first and foremost, since I am one, but I'm also able to recognise I'm a woman (I have no issues with that, biologically) and that my brain is neutral. It's all natural, because I'm certainly not "unnatural" and nor is anyone else.

Everyone’s gender identity is natural as far as I’m concerned.

I have no problem with people who have a sex change by the way.

I mean, look at it this way. My hair is blonde, and I always wish I had black hair. As far as everyone else knows, I'm blonde. It's just what they see, even if I told everyone not to call my hair blonde, it still is blonde. Unless I dyed my hair black, then it'd be black, and people will see me as a woman with black hair. But since I haven't dyed my hair, it will remain blonde no matter what colour I like to believe it is. It's just how it is. Fact. Science. Biology. Unless I dye it.

People have been having sex changes for years. But these days people that want to remain their sex but not be identified as a sex just make things confusing. When my mum was still alive (but ill), she was in the pharmacy's, and a man came to serve her. My mum called him "Sir", and he yelled at her because he didn't identify himself as a man. My mum was so upset and shocked, as she wasn't to know what he identified himself as, she just saw him as a man.
So with the world becoming like this it's hard to accept.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think hair colour and gender identity are a good comparison. It's like apples and oranges. Hair colour is a physical thing we can see with our eyes. Gender identity isn't. I know that men look like men and women look like women (for the most part it's identifiable), and we have different body parts, but that isn't what this is about. It's not even about the person "wanting" to be a different gender in the way they would want a different hair colour. It's about knowing / being that other gender on the inside. I know that's abstract because we can't "know" we are a different hair colour on the inside. That's why they aren't really a good comparison.

It's more like, if you were born with your exact same brain and personality that you have now, with all the same interests and feelings which you call feminine, but you looked down one day as a child and noticed you had a penis and everyone was calling you a boy. You might try to act like a boy for a while to make everyone happy, but would you really be a boy if you had your current "Joe" mind? Which one would you be? I know you get upset when people think you're a boy / man based on your username Joe. What if people thought you were a boy / man because you were born with a penis or you happened to look more like a man, even though you still felt completely JOE in a female way, like you were born in the wrong body?

Another comparison is when you say you don't want to be identified as Autistic even though doctors said you were. What if doctors said you were a boy / man even though you still felt like a woman? Would you just say "OK, I guess you're right", and be OK with everyone calling you a man, or would you say "Doctors called me a man but I really don't think I am", the same way you say "Doctors called me Autistic, but I really don't think I am" ?

Serious question. No judgement.

I'm glad we're having a civilized conversation about this instead of shouting and screaming.

It didn't upset or offend me when people got my gender wrong because of my username, it just annoyed me because people kept offering me advice what they'd offer a guy, because of thinking that I'm a guy and forgetting to look at my profile information. So one time when I asked here if it was OK to be friends with a 16-year-old girl (before I had this avatar) nearly everyone in the thread mistaked me for a guy who was sexually attracted to a young girl. But it obviously wasn't like that at all.

But sometimes your sex is important. For example if you're a Non-Binary woman but you are heterosexual looking for a boyfriend and want dating advice, you're probably going to have to own up to being a woman in order to get the right advice.

From about the age of 17 to the age of 30 I had age dysphoria (I don't know if that's a real thing but it kind of explains itself). I didn't like being called "adult", I hated that word, and when I told people, they were like "what, are you a baby then?" and I was like "no...but I just don't feel like an adult", and they were like "but you're not a child", and I was like "no but I don't feel comfortable being called an adult". But to avoid confusion I had to face facts and just put up with being called an adult, because that's what I was. Since the age of 30 I've finally accepted that I'm an adult and don't mind being called that any more.

I suppose I'll never truly get this gender dysphoria thing. To me it seems like gender denial. It's probably not like that for you but that's just how I, and most the population, see it.

Im not home Joe but I’ll write when I can.

In order for that song to be offensive, you'd have to view trans-folks as unnatural first, so the group Standing for Women must think that - shame on them.

Born female but my brain is neither male or female.