I'm glad life is finite

Post Reply New Topic

As a consequence of being a rational, skeptical, evidence-based thinker I do not believe in eternal life, or any other form of similar such thing (i.e: reincarnation, etc).

Many people find the idea of life's finality and the inevitability of death to be something scary and unpleasant. I must admit that when I was a young kid, I felt this way as well. However, when I was growing up and I accepted the finality of life and realized there is no reason to believe there is anything after death, I calmed down and was able to accept the finality of life and inevitability of death.

Recently, I have been thinking about the concept of "eternal life" and I realized I do not like it for many reasons, and I think it cheapens life, and has other negative consequences:

- Eternal life would mean that no matter how sick, or in how much chronic pain, etc that we are, we will have no escape at all and be doomed to such a terrible fate.

- Eternal life would mean that we would have no motivation to really do much of anything, or even to appreciate life, considering it would just go on forever and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever making it loose any meaning at all. It is the finality of our lives, and the lives of our friends and loved ones, that motivates us to live life, appreciate our friends and loved ones, and to achieve different things.

Ultimately, eternal life would be one of the worst things possible.

Last edited by Canadian1911 on 24 Jan 2023, 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Agreed. Living forever would become a punishment within less than more than one lifespan.

Maybe I wouldn't like to live for an eternity, but certainly I would like to live substantially longer than we do with our current technology.
I agree though that we are psychologicaly hard-wired to live as long as our biological timer dictates.

That raised an interesting question about lifespan.

How long would the ideal lifespan be?

I think we'd like to live as long as possible, but, we must also recognize that the older we get, the more frail and weak we get, and the higher chance of complications we have. So I think in order to figure out the ideal lifespan, we'd need to find a balance between those two factors.

As scary as death can be, the world as we know it would cease to function without its presence. We'd have no need for raising children. Especially since if there was no decrease in the population, then we'd have to work substantially to make it work in regards to resources. So adding to the population would definitely be frowned upon or possibly even banned.

Unless you're suggesting a world where we all live digitally, where our consciousness is uploaded. Where resources aren't an issue. That does bring in to question storage space though and if it would even be worth living at that stage.

Growing up, my dad was always a little morbid and we used to talk through these types of hypotheticals to pass time on road trips.

I'm not sure anything terrifies me as much as the idea of eternal consciousness.

Cool dad.

Are we secretly siblings?

The worst part about life is that everything ends. The best part of about life is that it ends.

I think whatever case happens to be is what we have to deal with whether we like it or not, and we have to do our best to cope with what we encounter.

Aside from that, with whatever you do or don't find evidence for, to live a healthy life (particularly if it's not an unusually easy life and you have as much trauma as the average person or more) requires structuring relationships with whatever conclusions you come to which can keep you in sufficient shape to achieve goals or at least not end up in a worse state if you can help it.

I'm pretty sure, with or without eternal consciousness or 'eternal life' whatever that means, you'd be as inclined to avoid getting into a car at gunpoint, getting tortured, stabbed, shot, raped, starved to death, on less extreme grounds you probably would be miserable if you're getting bullied or berated constantly, or if you have the lowest status in a given community and they make it a point to grind that into you, there are all kinds of extrinsic motivators that you'd want to avoid like the plague. No matter how bored you might get I don't think exquisite pain would be something you'd avoid less unless you were making a game of it on your own terms (like some type of Fakir or Marquis de Sade thing) rather than on someone else's terms.

Also thinking about trauma in general - trauma has a way of actually changing people beyond their control, in ways where life can be a sort of adventure where before and after traumatic events the person who comes out the other side of them may not be the same person who went in (same genes is a bit different from same quality of experience). There's continuation of conscious experience and memory but the whole feel of your personality, how you see yourself, or what options you see yourself having can be significantly altered. That's a horrible way to 'keep things fresh' but what I think it puts a certain lie to is the notion that you have a constant / fixed self that forever has a contiguous narrative structure to grow bored with.

That might all be beside the point if the entire point of this topic is to isolate your criticisms to some combination of modern Christianity and Shirly MacLaine style of pop new age but they're really not good representatives of the possibility space as a whole. This is where I typically find myself in an uncomfortable position writing these posts, I never know for sure whether the poster I'm responding to literally believes what they're saying and is raising epistemic and ontological questions or whether they're valuing the importance of the beliefs they're discussing purely on number of adherents / believers (social relevance) in which case it's really a political conversation with a veneer of metaphysical inquiry rather than being what the OP looks like on the surface.

We'd have to be farther up the Kardashev scale for breeding under those circumstances to be a good thing. The other part, we'd really need to have nanobots repairing our DNA, otherwise we'd have from now until near heat death of the universe to pick up all sorts of genetic mutations and our genetic material would be looking as bad as that of flatworms.

The other crappy thing about eternal life in the biological context - generations horde wealth and if you never die you'd never have to give an inheritance. Also imagine the baby boomers having power forever, to such a degree that their preferences, locked in during their childhood and early adulthood, governing the next several thousand years. Not only would things be horribly stagnant but it would be a bit like a descending caste system where the later you were born the lower 'class' you would be and there'd be little or no upward mobility save throwing seniors out of airlocks to appropriate their wealth.

The only good news with that - we'd have more drive to get out and colonize the solar system, galaxy, etc. and we'd be a more 'grabby' species if our only choices for wealth and status were either murdering our own or leaving for the frontier.

---

It's Worth Noting That While the Scientific Method Is A Valuable Tool,

To Take Apart Reality And Measure What May Be Empirically Observed,

And Materially Reduced; It is A Rather Limited Tool That Way And Not A Tool

That is Even Capable of Empirically

Measuring The Process Fully

That Makes Our Conscious
And Subconscious Realities Work As They Do Now;

True, A 'Belief in A Finite Existence,' Is Limited Per The Way We Process
And View Existence With What Science Suggests is About Half of A Percent

Of All of What Makes Us Human, In Process From Head to Toe; Yes, It is Surely Limited

Into What We May Even Materially Reduce And Measure Empirically For Even The Way

i Feel and Sense Life Compared

To Anyone Else; As True, Some

Folks Have No Problem Touching

Human Made Materials Yet i Am Hypersensitive
That Way; Some Human Beings Have Rather Dull
Working Mirror Neurons; i Am Also Hypersensitive That
Way; As Well As With Empathy And All the Other Senses

And Feelings That Make Human Emotions too; So Comparably

Speaking, The Way i Experience Life Could Be Called 'SuperNatural' or

At Least 'SuperNormal' Compared to What So-Called 'Normal Human Beings'

Experience of Life; Yet Here's A Point As Both Famous Atheist Sam Harris, Readily
Admits; And Astrophysics Rock Star of Science Neil deGrasse Tyson, Also Admits too;

As They Can't Rule Out The Possibility That An Intelligence That Makes Us Look Like 'Flatworms'

Now in Comparison; Or Yes Less, Designs All of What Our Reality is As A Simulation Like A Super

Advanced, 'Avatar' Real Life Movie Version, A Zillion And One; Where ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING IS

POSSIBLE ETERNALLY NOW, DEPENDING ONLY ON THE POTENTIAL IMAGINATION AND CREATIVITY OF THE

INTELLIGENT DESIGNER(s), BEHIND THIS REALITY SHoW NOW IN SIMULATION WAY THAT CAN AND WILL BE PRETTY

AMAZING HEHE;

Particularly, if You
Find All the REAL POWER-UPS
EMPIRICALLY MEASURABLE TOO,

i Take Advantage of Now At Age 62, Such
As Still Leg Pressing Up to 1540 Pounds,
12 Reps, Just Warming Up At the Gym,

Only Limited By Doing More As i Filled
Up Both Bars With 45 Pound Weight Plates;
Unfortunately, the Military Gym Disposed of
The 100 Pound Plates as the Assistants Couldn't

'Manage' to Put the Plates Away, if Someone Left Them on the Bars;

True, So Many of the Folks Use Only The Bar These Days As That's What

Happens When Humans No Longer Use Their 'Programmed' Potentials For Real...

Yes, Epigenetic Potential; Unpacking it, Overcoming Appropriate Challenges in Life is Really

Amazing; Sadly, Some Folks Believe The After Life Has More Potential Than The During Life For Real;

And You Know What; IF This is A Great Intelligent Design of A Simulation That Comprises Our Reality Now;

There is Nothing Stopping 'The Architect' of This Simulation From Bringing Us Back the Same Way Eternally

Now; or Perhaps Folks Who Are Cruel to Other Folks Like Donald J Trump; And Leaders Who Champion

Unwarranted Wars And Kill Hundreds of Thousands of Otherwise Innocent Folks, Come Back as

Grasshoppers in Eternally New Simulations, Over and Over, Crunched Under the Foot of Some

Creature Shortly After They Are Born in Excruciating Pain; Yes, Let's Hope The Designer

is Less Psychopathic Leaning Than What is Described in that Old New Testament

Book For The One Who is the Bad Cop God That Tortures Folks Forever For

Not Feeding The Homeless Dude on the Street, Per the Ending Part of

Matthew, After The Good Cop Jesus Forgives the Enemies; Yes, Forever

Now, Even Turning the Other Cheek; Yep, Loving All With No Exclusions For Real;

Personally, i Live the Best Life Possible Now As Now is All That Exists For Now At Least Hehe;

Looking Around At the Hot And Cold Rocks in Space And The Darkness Holding Up Reality

Up There And Within; All

The Energy Within me

in Terms of Vibrations and

Frequencies; i Have Exercised

A 'Shelf-Life' At Age 62 And 8 Months

That Not Many Humans Enjoy in Life;

Probably in Empirical Measure, if it Was Even

Possible to Measure Heaven Within; At Least in the

Top One Percent of What Really Counts in Having A Great

Life In Terms of Being Naked Enough Whole Complete Loving in Peace...

IF, The So-Called "Intelligent Designer" Is Somewhat 'Woke' In Terms of 'Equitable Eventual Outcomes'

And 'InComes' Of Death And Birth; This Makes The InBetween Eternal Now Part, The Best Part oF All To

Continue to
Perfect in Depth

Of Our Human Stories;

Yes, NoW Each and Every

Moment More Colorful

From Head to Toe, To Feel
And Sense, And Give And Share;
And Yes Care And Heal For All With

Most Respect And Least Harm;

YeS iN JoY oF LiGHT, iNHaLinG Peace,

ExhalinG LoVE iN 'Effortless Wu Wei Ease,'

Within, Inside, Outside, Above, Below, And All Around;
Yes, Forever NoW Eternally New is Enough of A Joy For me

At Least

to REALLY
BREaTHE Free
EternAlly New Now;

Yet IF You 'See,' i Found

All The Power Ups That Work for me;

Perhaps, Not Everyone is Programmed For

Free Will ThiS Way As Much as Me Hehe;

It Is What It Is;

Only A Real Fool;

Doesn't Make This

Existence Heaven New Now,

If They Actually Have The Potential to Do It Now;

We All View And Do Existence Somewhat Differently;

And in Each and Every Breath, For All the Parts That Yes
Makes Up All the Whole That is Us, And All of We As Parts

That Make Up All the Whole That All That Is; Change is The Only

Constant; At Best We aRe FLoWerS UNFolding Continuing To Evolve iNto

A Much Greater Creation of Energy; Yes, Vibrations And Frequencies of the 'MuSiC of Life,'

DarK Thru LiGHT;

Or On the Other

Hand, Some Folks

Spend Their Life,

Not Fully, Even Living

This Life; Perhaps for Some

Folks, Life is More Like 'The Twilight

Zone' As Part of A Horrible Nightmare for

Real As Yes, i Already Did That Negative Power-Down too...

Here's The 'Thing;'

Guess What; Humans

Aren't Nearly As Smart

As They 'Think' They Are

In Limited Word Think; Here's

The Reality;' There Are Non-Verbal

Human Intelligences, Ineffable to Describe

In Words; And Impossible to Measure With the

Old Antiqued Yet Still Useful Scientific 5-Step Method;

Some Humans Sadly Take IT All Apart And Forget to Put 'God' Back Together Again;

Yawn, 'GoD' Is Nature to me, Both Seen And Unseen, In all THAT is Measurable And Not Measurable too;

Some Folks Believe in

A Smaller God; i For One

Believe iN A Reality That

Is Only Partially Measurable;

Meanwhile, What Can and Will
Be Measured is Totally Awesome in my Life at Least....

Basically, the Rest is Just Potential Icing or Poison on the Cake;

WHere Perhaps, The Poison is More Positive Than the Icing; And It's

Actually The
DarK Parts

of Life That
BRinG The Most

Positive LiGHT For

Loving Life; Yet You

See, This is What Philosophy
is actually For; Pursuing the Great

Potential Frontiers of Life, Not All Experience

In Life; And Even Finding Language Potentially

To Describe What A Blue Sky Is to A Blind Person;

Yet You See,

That's Impossible;

Some Folks 'See' And
Some Folks Remain 'Blind' to the 'Colors of the Sky;'

And Yes, It's the Same for THE Eternal Hell Now, Purgatory;
Yes, The In Between Of The Other Side of Eternal Heaven Now too;

i Suppose, We May At Least Be Thankful Now For All the Flavors

of Life We may Come to Enjoy Newly Now; Or Hell, Just Be Super Salty For

All of One

Unique

Trump-Like

Existence too;

Every Day of my

Life, i Appreciate What

i Can't iMaGiNE IS A Better

Life Than Now; Yet of Course,

THeRE iS ALWaYS The Potential

For Even A Greater Life in the Life of Now New Next, Soon Enough Hehe;

Or Perhaps After A Good Night Sleep; So Many Flavors to Enjoy As Long
As Eternally New Now.

Obviously, Life In Poor

Health Continuing On

Would Be Somewhat of A Curse

If Not For The Gift Of Death; On the

Other Hand, Every Day i Create A Greater

Life; For me at Least, As Long As i Remain

in Increasing Health And Every Part of Existence

Evolving More Toward A Greater Life; Eternity More

New
Now

Is Just
Cake on
The Icing

i Already Achieve

Eternally New Now; Yet You

See, For Those Who Are Not

Able to Actually 'See' What i see
of Life Beyond All Empirical Measure,

To Reduce my Reality, Any Less, Than What i Experience

Is A Potential

That is Impossible

At Least With the
Limited Tools

to Measure

What is Impossible
to Measure Discretely

Now; A Human Soul For Real;

Whether You CaLL iT Our Conscious
And Subconscious Existence or Some

Other Metaphor For Heaven or Less For Real too Eternally New Now..

---