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Nades
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25 Jan 2023, 8:22 am

Quantum duck
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25 Jan 2023, 8:32 am

Where should we send men who rape men?



IsabellaLinton
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25 Jan 2023, 8:58 am

Violent offenders should be segregated or kept in isolation so it doesn’t really matter. If they harass other inmates then they lose any privileges they may have including parole.



Dengashinobi
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25 Jan 2023, 1:02 pm

Quantum duck wrote:
Where should we send men who rape men?


Certainly not in women's prisons.



Trueno
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25 Jan 2023, 1:27 pm

She was a he at the time and raped two women.

Sex offenders are segregated in men’s prisons. Don’t know what would happen in a women’s prison… in the UK.


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25 Jan 2023, 2:02 pm

perhaps people using the medical profession regarding a gender transition as a means to escape punishment especially in heinous crimes ... Should be a large determining factor in the Court trying any case in these matters . And might be considered as additional proof of a"individual" level of being devious . Possibly negating any defence the person could make .
And Accorded the absolute maximum that the Court could possibly inflict in the situation. IMHO


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Last edited by Jakki on 25 Jan 2023, 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

slam_thunderhide
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25 Jan 2023, 2:30 pm

Just wait, pretty soon we'll see the usual suspects joining this thread and claiming that the most important thing here is not protecting female inmates (and the public) from this monster, but that the most important thing is "preventing a transphobic backlash" instead.



Silence23
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25 Jan 2023, 3:20 pm

Quantum duck wrote:
Where should we send men who rape men?


Maybe to the rapist section. So the rapists can rape eachother. After all they don't respect the fundamental human right to sexual self-determination. So they should be tolerant of other rapists raping them.



funeralxempire
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26 Jan 2023, 7:18 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Violent offenders should be segregated or kept in isolation so it doesn’t really matter. If they harass other inmates then they lose any privileges they may have including parole.


This.

Is it only an issue when women are sexually assaulted in prison?
Is it only an issue when the perpetrator is AMAB?

No, if we take violent offences between prisoners seriously this specific and narrow issue won't exist as a result.


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31 Jan 2023, 8:05 pm

Oh here is a solution. Put women who rape women in a separate ward and keep them separated from other women whom never raped women. Problem solved.


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09 Feb 2023, 2:34 pm

In UK law women cannot rape women though.

A man who identifies as woman remains male and can rape.

I do not understand the relevance of saying that men rape men in a men's prison. What does that have to do with women's prisons?

The problem seems to be with the laws being badly made and confusing sex and gender. No human can change their sex and tbh I do not really have any clue what gender is.



The_Walrus
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09 Feb 2023, 3:39 pm

Aero_T wrote:
In UK law women cannot rape women though.

A man who identifies as woman remains male and can rape.

This is not quite true. A cis woman who participates in a rape can still be convicted of rape, even if she didn't forcibly penetrate someone with a penis.

In any case, it's completely irrelevant, because a sexual assault doesn't become any less serious just because it doesn't meet the strict legal definition of rape.

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I do not understand the relevance of saying that men rape men in a men's prison. What does that have to do with women's prisons?

Most people don't support discrimination on the basis of gender, because that is plain old sexism.

It isn't OK for men to be raped, or for trans women to be raped, or for women to be sexually assaulted by other women.

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The problem seems to be with the laws being badly made and confusing sex and gender. No human can change their sex and tbh I do not really have any clue what gender is.

Whether one can change their sex depends upon what definition of "sex" is used. One can change their hormonal sex. One can change their genital sex. One can even have their gonads removed. One cannot change one's haplotype or produce different gametes.

The problem is that there's a minority of people who really hate 1) people of the opposite gender, and 2) trans people, who they see as embodying everything they hate about the opposite gender. Generally we are becoming more tolerant, less sexist, less transphobic... but as that minority becomes smaller, they're also becoming angrier, louder, and more passionate.



Nades
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14 Feb 2023, 11:15 am

I think the buck stops with chromosomes. A male will always be a male in the sense no amount of hormones or surgery will change the sex of their individual cells.

Gender reassignment is probably what changes that the most but it'll still be non-functioning from the perspective of reproduction.

The problem with the case this thread is about is the very lax laws Scotland are hoping to create that will probably muddy the water on gender and sex. Very suspicious timing and has now been considered a male not surprisingly.



The_Walrus
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14 Feb 2023, 1:59 pm

Nades wrote:
I think the buck stops with chromosomes. A male will always be a male in the sense no amount of hormones or surgery will change the sex of their individual cells.

So if you suddenly discovered that your chromosomes are not what you think, would that change your opinion of whether you are a man? Would it change how you behave? Would you be OK with people calling you "she" and "lady"?

Nades wrote:
The problem with the case this thread is about is the very lax laws Scotland are hoping to create that will probably muddy the water on gender and sex. Very suspicious timing and has now been considered a male not surprisingly.

I don't really like Nicola Sturgeon but you've got to hand it to her, on this issue she's been brilliant. It will help so many people, and in a few years people will view the "gender police" the same way we view the people who try to separate the races.



Jakki
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14 Feb 2023, 2:50 pm

Sometimes a specific topic independant of Criminal or not begins to start to sound generally dehumazing.
After it get beyond the point of crime and punishment . Take a life give a Life .. If you want to be really hardnosed about the realities of what happened beyond those things . Its starting to feel devisive of humans in general.


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Silence23
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14 Feb 2023, 4:11 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
So if you suddenly discovered that your chromosomes are not what you think, would that change your opinion of whether you are a man? Would it change how you behave? Would you be OK with people calling you "she" and "lady"?


I wouldn't care what other people call me. And I don't understand why that would be important. Maybe they call me a little girl or a p...kitty. So what? Their problem, not mine.

I'm a schizoid and wouldn't want to make my mental wellbeing depend on another person.

What some people do is making their mental wellbeing depend on whether 8 billion people see them as what they want to be seen (man, woman, unicorn, or whatever). That would be an apocalyptic scale problem for me.

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Whether one can change their sex depends upon what definition of "sex" is used.


Most living organisms have the capability to detect whether it's possible to procreate with another living organism. They may even detect how genetically close another organism is ("genetic similarity theory").

I think that's what sex is about. A man can't procreate with another man, even if one of the men transitions to become a woman. And men will detect that they can't procreate with such a woman, consciously and subconsciously (e.g. through pheromones, social interaction, etc.).

And about prisons:
When a man bruises the ego of another man in male prison, he may get beaten up, because he isn't a friend and he questioned his social status. To "negotiate" their social status by one man dominating another man.

When a woman bruises the ego of a biological man in female prison, she may get raped. To "negotiate" the social status by dominating her. If it wasn't considered gay, then men would probably constantly rape eachother in prison instead of beating eachother up.