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What is your overall political outlook?
Nihilist 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
Anarchist 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Libertarian 15%  15%  [ 5 ]
Theocrat 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Fascist 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
MAGA 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Royalist 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Reactionary 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Conservative 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Democrat 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
Liberal 21%  21%  [ 7 ]
Socialist 12%  12%  [ 4 ]
Communist 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Apatheist 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Other (specify in comment) 24%  24%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 33

Dengashinobi
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02 Feb 2023, 9:36 am

magz wrote:
Radish wrote:
Having read the above posts, I must fall into the 'politically homeless' category. Each group has for and against, none has all the answers.

Is "independent" a synonym to "homeless"? ;)

I once heard an interesting metaphor: that voting is like public transport, not a private car. Most likely none goes exactly where you want to get - so you choose one that goes in the direction closest to where you want to get and you change your bus if needed.


Nice metaphor.



naturalplastic
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02 Feb 2023, 11:04 am

MaxE wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
Radish wrote:
Honey69 wrote:
Funny there are no Libertarians here. They are very small in number, but usually dominate internet message boards.


What is the difference between Libertarians and Liberals? I may have clicked the wrong one.


Originally the term Liberalism ment what today in America call Libertarianism. In Europe we still call it Liberalism, or Classical Liberalism in order to differentiate it from Social or Modern Liberalism, which in America is called simply Liberalism. Modern Liberalism has it's roots in Classical Liberalism. Modern Liberals are the Democrats, Classical Liberals are the Republicans.

Every time somebody starts a thread like this, somebody feels the need to lecture the group on the definition of Classical Liberalism, as if that matters in today's world.

Thats because the lecture IS necessary because the word "Liberal" is used in two different, and near contradictory ways in different countries.

Australia has a Liberal Party and a Labor Party. The Labor Party is the one that's "Liberal" in the American sense of the word, and the "Liberal" party is the opposite of "Liberal" (ie conservative) in the American usage. :lol:

So someone has to explain it again and again.



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02 Feb 2023, 12:40 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Thats because the lecture IS necessary because the word "Liberal" is used in two different, and near contradictory ways in different countries.

Australia has a Liberal Party and a Labor Party. The Labor Party is the one that's "Liberal" in the American sense of the word, and the "Liberal" party is the opposite of "Liberal" (ie conservative) in the American usage. :lol:

So someone has to explain it again and again.

Canada has a Liberal Party what does "Liberal" mean in their case? I suppose if you're a Trudeau-hater you consider it a synonym for "Fascist".


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02 Feb 2023, 12:51 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
Aspinator wrote:
I feel it would be safe to say that we live in a moneyocracy not a democracy


I think the correct term for that would be "plutocracy" (ruled by the wealthy). We're also technically an oligarchy masquerading as a democratic-republic.

Also given the dangerous stupidity, bizarre craziness, and outright incompetence of many of our current leaders on both the right and left I would also say that we live in an actual kakistocracy aswell.


This Sounds very accurate for the situation appearing in the USA these days and even earlier ..!
but What is a Kakistocracy?


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DeathFlowerKing
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02 Feb 2023, 1:18 pm

Jakki wrote:
What is a Kakistocracy?


It's basically like a system of government ruled by corrupt and incompetent leaders who would run their entire country into the ground. Donald Trump for a perfect example, also embarrassing idiots like Marjorie Taylor Greene.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy



kraftiekortie
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02 Feb 2023, 1:28 pm

Does it have something to do with “kaka” or “ca-ca”?



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02 Feb 2023, 1:40 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Does it have something to do with “kaka” or “ca-ca”?

:lol:

Actualltly it's from the Greek word kakistos meaning "worst"

Government ruled by the worst kinds of leaders. Basically any country that has leaders who abuse their power or allows their people to starve or get torn apart by war and/or crime could be described as a type of kakistocracy.

Besides the US other examples would be North Korea and Russia. I mean Putin has pretty much driven his own country into the ground over this stupid war with Ukraine after all.



klanka
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02 Feb 2023, 3:25 pm

I put nihilist but I didn't know it meant a rejection of all morals, I'm apathetic.



Jakki
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02 Feb 2023, 7:09 pm

Three cheers for the Corporatocracy of the United States of America ,????? Perhaps I misworded that somehow ? 8O


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DeathFlowerKing
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02 Feb 2023, 8:02 pm

Jakki wrote:
Three cheers for the Corporatocracy of the United States of America ,????? Perhaps I misworded that somehow ? 8O


This country is many things but it's not a true Democratic-Republic although it pretends to be.

:mrgreen:

I'd also like to add that under Jim Crow we were an Apartheid state much like South Africa was.



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04 Feb 2023, 8:48 pm

Honey69 wrote:
What is your overall political outlook?

I am anarcho-capitalist or minarchist if that doesnt work out and I believe we should have a really weak military with no bases overseas and no draft. My absolute ideal way for the world would be non-Marxist Christian Communism.I believe all guns/weapons,all drugs,gambling,prositution all food, all alcohol and all tobacco should be legal and commercialized and deregulated for every adult.



Last edited by Texasmoneyman300 on 05 Feb 2023, 1:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

stratozyck
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05 Feb 2023, 12:17 am

I am a Leftist nationalist. It doesn't really exist in the US.

I believe that a country has the monopoly on the right to kill and ask you to kill for it. Since the state can kill you legally and ask you to kill for it on punishment up to and including death, a state has a duty to ensure you have a minimal education, health care, and shelter, in order to maximize your chances of being a functioning member of that society. You cannot simply decide to live off the land in a state - the state can and does deny you that right. Even if you own the land, the state can and does tell you what you can do with it.

Because the working class are often called on to sacrifice blood for the state, the state has its duty first and foremost to those who toil. Bill Gates isn't going to send his kids to fight in trenches. Nor are Bill Gates's kids going to join law enforcement or become first responders.

The rich have no inclination towards loyalty to the state they are in. They can flee at a moments notice. They are not to be trusted. You have to make them invest in the country via taxation. How many rich people in America fly American flags while they ship jobs overseas or make use of H1B visas to hire foreign workers? They would much rather hire workers that another country's government pays to educate than invest in their people.

Immigration is good for some countries and bad for others. I think for the US it is part of our nature. However that does not mean I favor open borders and control of entry is a vital part of the state. However, as a US leftist nationalist, I believe in a stronger US and I think that means we need a US population of 500 million. I do not favor open borders - but we are in a position to let in people who share our values from countries that do not and we should do more of that. The most anti communist people were the immigrants that came in from Eastern Europe. I do not favor the current asylum system as it is broken and de facto open borders. However, most of my enforcement of that would involve forcing a minimum wage and strong punishment for employers who get around it. If the minimum wage is $12 and you gotta pay FICA taxes a lot of them would stop coming.

A larger population would spread the cost of our military - which I believe is the sharp end of our value system - over a larger base. I think we need a stronger military, not weaker.

That does not mean I favor invasions - instead I see us as the "arsenal of freedom." We should be building anti ballistic missiles, space stations - whatever is necessary - to mitigate the threat of nuclear weapons so that we can better defend our democratic allies. I only favor defending democracies, and only if they want us to.

I favor getting us off of oil as soon as possible for strategic, environmental, and moral purposes. The states that have the oil tend to be the worst actors on the world stage. The sooner oil becomes useless, the better. We should have spent 3 Trillion getting off of oil as opposed to fighting those wars to defend its supply.

I favor a universal basic income of sorts implemented from an improved earned income tax credit (EITC). The current EITC is yearly and we could enact a higher frequency one that is monthly payments. Yearly payments incentivizes big purchases whereas monthly would go to rent.

Our education system needs a drastic overhaul and is more or less obsolete. Its not just about money - I think even when its working as intended it still is obsolete. Returns to education have been declining in the past 20 years and I think that is a serious indictment of the current K-12 and college system. No one is being held accountable for this, and someone needs to.

I favor single payer health care, or at least a single payer option. This includes dental care. Part of leftism is recognizing that industries' goal is to get captive markets and the health care market in the US needs a powerful entity to stand up to the rampant price gouging going on. A single payer system could tell those jerks that we are only paying 15% of GDP to health care instead of 18%. What are they going to do, go open a hospital in China? We have the power, we just haven't used it and as a result they've used their power to shake us down.

The same applies to all industries - not just health care. You need a government to stand up for the common consumer or industry will trample our freedom. The US government needs to enforce and guarantee our basic rights such as freedom of speech and the right to work - yet tens of million Americans have employer agreements which trample on both of those. For instance, in mine, there is a clause so broad that basically I've interpreted it to mean, "if you take a public stance on anything we don't like, we can fire you." Sure, I am "free" to not sign it but that means my family loses its house because every company I could work for has the same clause.

That is leftist nationalism in a nutshell. It's not just higher taxes (though that is part of it), it's a government that stops serving the rich and businesses. Where it differs from other forms of leftism is that it very much wants a strong US military presence in the world, and stronger control over our immigration and trade relationships.



Texasmoneyman300
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05 Feb 2023, 2:08 am

stratozyck wrote:
I am a Leftist nationalist. It doesn't really exist in the US.

I believe that a country has the monopoly on the right to kill and ask you to kill for it. Since the state can kill you legally and ask you to kill for it on punishment up to and including death, a state has a duty to ensure you have a minimal education, health care, and shelter, in order to maximize your chances of being a functioning member of that society. You cannot simply decide to live off the land in a state - the state can and does deny you that right. Even if you own the land, the state can and does tell you what you can do with it.

Because the working class are often called on to sacrifice blood for the state, the state has its duty first and foremost to those who toil. Bill Gates isn't going to send his kids to fight in trenches. Nor are Bill Gates's kids going to join law enforcement or become first responders.

The rich have no inclination towards loyalty to the state they are in. They can flee at a moments notice. They are not to be trusted. You have to make them invest in the country via taxation. How many rich people in America fly American flags while they ship jobs overseas or make use of H1B visas to hire foreign workers? They would much rather hire workers that another country's government pays to educate than invest in their people.

Immigration is good for some countries and bad for others. I think for the US it is part of our nature. However that does not mean I favor open borders and control of entry is a vital part of the state. However, as a US leftist nationalist, I believe in a stronger US and I think that means we need a US population of 500 million. I do not favor open borders - but we are in a position to let in people who share our values from countries that do not and we should do more of that. The most anti communist people were the immigrants that came in from Eastern Europe. I do not favor the current asylum system as it is broken and de facto open borders. However, most of my enforcement of that would involve forcing a minimum wage and strong punishment for employers who get around it. If the minimum wage is $12 and you gotta pay FICA taxes a lot of them would stop coming.

A larger population would spread the cost of our military - which I believe is the sharp end of our value system - over a larger base. I think we need a stronger military, not weaker.

That does not mean I favor invasions - instead I see us as the "arsenal of freedom." We should be building anti ballistic missiles, space stations - whatever is necessary - to mitigate the threat of nuclear weapons so that we can better defend our democratic allies. I only favor defending democracies, and only if they want us to.

I favor getting us off of oil as soon as possible for strategic, environmental, and moral purposes. The states that have the oil tend to be the worst actors on the world stage. The sooner oil becomes useless, the better. We should have spent 3 Trillion getting off of oil as opposed to fighting those wars to defend its supply.

I favor a universal basic income of sorts implemented from an improved earned income tax credit (EITC). The current EITC is yearly and we could enact a higher frequency one that is monthly payments. Yearly payments incentivizes big purchases whereas monthly would go to rent.

Our education system needs a drastic overhaul and is more or less obsolete. Its not just about money - I think even when its working as intended it still is obsolete. Returns to education have been declining in the past 20 years and I think that is a serious indictment of the current K-12 and college system. No one is being held accountable for this, and someone needs to.

I favor single payer health care, or at least a single payer option. This includes dental care. Part of leftism is recognizing that industries' goal is to get captive markets and the health care market in the US needs a powerful entity to stand up to the rampant price gouging going on. A single payer system could tell those jerks that we are only paying 15% of GDP to health care instead of 18%. What are they going to do, go open a hospital in China? We have the power, we just haven't used it and as a result they've used their power to shake us down.

The same applies to all industries - not just health care. You need a government to stand up for the common consumer or industry will trample our freedom. The US government needs to enforce and guarantee our basic rights such as freedom of speech and the right to work - yet tens of million Americans have employer agreements which trample on both of those. For instance, in mine, there is a clause so broad that basically I've interpreted it to mean, "if you take a public stance on anything we don't like, we can fire you." Sure, I am "free" to not sign it but that means my family loses its house because every company I could work for has the same clause.

That is leftist nationalism in a nutshell. It's not just higher taxes (though that is part of it), it's a government that stops serving the rich and businesses. Where it differs from other forms of leftism is that it very much wants a strong US military presence in the world, and stronger control over our immigration and trade relationships.

Why do you think the government should be allowed to make it a crime for me to live off the land way out in the boonies in Texas on a 10,000 acre ranch off the grid as long as I aint hurting nobody.I just dont know what legit purpose that would serve.



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05 Feb 2023, 7:07 am

naturalplastic wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
Radish wrote:
Honey69 wrote:
Funny there are no Libertarians here. They are very small in number, but usually dominate internet message boards.


What is the difference between Libertarians and Liberals? I may have clicked the wrong one.


Originally the term Liberalism ment what today in America call Libertarianism. In Europe we still call it Liberalism, or Classical Liberalism in order to differentiate it from Social or Modern Liberalism, which in America is called simply Liberalism. Modern Liberalism has it's roots in Classical Liberalism. Modern Liberals are the Democrats, Classical Liberals are the Republicans.

Every time somebody starts a thread like this, somebody feels the need to lecture the group on the definition of Classical Liberalism, as if that matters in today's world.

Thats because the lecture IS necessary because the word "Liberal" is used in two different, and near contradictory ways in different countries.

Australia has a Liberal Party and a Labor Party. The Labor Party is the one that's "Liberal" in the American sense of the word, and the "Liberal" party is the opposite of "Liberal" (ie conservative) in the American usage. :lol:

So someone has to explain it again and again.

So this isn't much of an argument but what I've seen is that those who feel compelled to explain the true meaning of "Liberalism" are Libertarians etc. who aim to ridicule people on the Left by saying "you call yourself a Liberal but you don't even know the meaning of the word." Plus in Europe what I have mostly encountered is "Left vs. Right" I can't recall when I've seen the word Liberal used in the context of European politics. Although I'll admit to having probably not read enough. I would still want to know what the word means in Canada.


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kraftiekortie
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05 Feb 2023, 7:50 am

https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/epp ... phy_e.aspx

I find it very similar to “liberal” principles in the US.



kraftiekortie
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05 Feb 2023, 7:55 am

I believe in strict accountability as to immigration in the US, a la Ellis Island.

But very few actual hindrances to the path towards citizenship. A prospective citizen must pay taxes and otherwise contribute to the welfare of the US.