The eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs...
Matthew 19:
"there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake."
Who exactly were the eunuchs who had made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake?
_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah
I think when I was a believer I took that scripture to mean that some people chose/choose to stay celibate to focus on spiritual pursuits (like annoying other people by preaching - that sort of thing) rather than be literal eunuchs.
Of course, elsewhere the Bible says that if body parts are making you stumble cut them off, so….
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“We must learn to reawaken and keep ourselves awake...by an infinite expectation of the dawn, which does not forsake us even in our soundest sleep.”
— Walden
That's how some Christians presently choose to interpret the passage. Christian churches had literal eunuch choirs (the castrati) until the beginning of the 20th century. In Matthew 19, Jesus is addressing his Jewish disciples. Deuteronomy 23 says
In the Ancient Near East, there were eunuchs in palaces. King Herod had a few eunuchs. But, it doesn't seem that making one's self a eunuch would have been encouraged among Jews. At least I don't think that Jews ever had any eunuch choirs.
_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah
Pretty sure Jesus was talking metaphorically, though he wouldn't be against literally if a person had no other way to resist temptation. (Marital) sex is not a sin in Christianity, but the holiest of people abstain from the flesh.
1 Corinthians 7:1-2, 32-34
"Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband." " An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided."
"there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake."
Who exactly were the eunuchs who had made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake?
I believe eunuchs in that verse refers to people who decide to be celibate for the rest of their lives because they have the gift of celibacy and can resist sexual temptation better the most other men.They would focus their lives on Christian pursuits as a single person rather than having a wife and kids.
1 Corinthians 7:1-2, 32-34
"Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband." " An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided."
That's Paul. He was an asexual. And, he came after Jesus. Although, granted, Paul's letters were composed prior to the gospels. Still, if the record of Jesus' statement is correct, then he wouldn't have been talking about Christians.
_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah
"there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake."
Who exactly were the eunuchs who had made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake?
I believe eunuchs in that verse refers to people who decide to be celibate for the rest of their lives because they have the gift of celibacy and can resist sexual temptation better the most other men.They would focus their lives on Christian pursuits as a single person rather than having a wife and kids.
You may believe what you wish. Jesus uses the past tense, " there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake." He wouldn't have been talking about Christians and Christian pursuits. Christianity was not a religion at that point.
_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah
MuddRM
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Joined: 2 Sep 2021
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I used to take it literally because it is worded strongly,as are the verses where he tells Christians to cut off their body parts that are leading them to hell.
Now I see them as something that is sarcastic, as in he is saying that castration is for people trying to get to heaven by their own righteousness. In the later gospel of John he says just believe in him to be saved.
It's a shame that there is no hint of it being sarcastic at all because it has caused people to harm themselves.
That's how some Christians presently choose to interpret the passage. Christian churches had literal eunuch choirs (the castrati) until the beginning of the 20th century. In Matthew 19, Jesus is addressing his Jewish disciples. Deuteronomy 23 says
In the Ancient Near East, there were eunuchs in palaces. King Herod had a few eunuchs. But, it doesn't seem that making one's self a eunuch would have been encouraged among Jews. At least I don't think that Jews ever had any eunuch choirs.
I heard an old recording of a castrato recently because I’m taking a course on classical music.
It’s appalling that the Church thought that castration was a good idea for such a long time and until so recently, historically speaking.
_________________
“We must learn to reawaken and keep ourselves awake...by an infinite expectation of the dawn, which does not forsake us even in our soundest sleep.”
— Walden
That's how some Christians presently choose to interpret the passage. Christian churches had literal eunuch choirs (the castrati) until the beginning of the 20th century. In Matthew 19, Jesus is addressing his Jewish disciples. Deuteronomy 23 says
In the Ancient Near East, there were eunuchs in palaces. King Herod had a few eunuchs. But, it doesn't seem that making one's self a eunuch would have been encouraged among Jews. At least I don't think that Jews ever had any eunuch choirs.
I heard an old recording of a castrato recently because I’m taking a course on classical music.
It’s appalling that the Church thought that castration was a good idea for such a long time and until so recently, historically speaking.
Yeap, the case of castrati is very odd indeed.
Now I see them as something that is sarcastic, as in he is saying that castration is for people trying to get to heaven by their own righteousness. In the later gospel of John he says just believe in him to be saved.
It's a shame that there is no hint of it being sarcastic at all because it has caused people to harm themselves.
I don't think that Jesus is telling people that they should necessarily cut off their balls. He says
"...there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake."
He knows of people who already made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake.
I think that Jesus is most likely referring to the galli--eunuch priests of the Phrygian goddess Cybele.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galli
Possibly sarcastically. In the ancient near east, and in the Roman empire, people would have known of them.
On the other hand, if Jesus is talking metaphorically about celibacy, then he may have been referring to the Essenes.
_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah
I think you misunderstood, I don't think he's telling people to literally castrate themselves. But he is... sarcastically.. which is why Christians have actually done it: like origen... because they didn't understand the sarcasm.
The kingdom of heaven is the Christian afterlife or referring to the Christian community here on earth so it can't be referring to followers of Cybele, as that is a non-Christian god.
There was a Christian sect that practiced castration literally. Can't remember what they were called at the moment.
Most Christians understand the sarcasm or ignore that verse or explain it away as celibacy.
Later in the Bible it says there were great multitudes in heaven so castrating oneself cannot be a barrier for entry.
One would think that a divine being would avoid speaking figuratively about such a topic and would, instead, say directly what he, she, or they means to avoid certain confusion and harm.
_________________
“We must learn to reawaken and keep ourselves awake...by an infinite expectation of the dawn, which does not forsake us even in our soundest sleep.”
— Walden
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