Suspected Chinese spy balloon spotted over U.S. skies

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ASPartOfMe
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02 Feb 2023, 10:19 pm

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The Defense Department is "confident" a balloon spotted over Montana is a surveillance balloon from China, a senior defense official said Thursday.

A senior defense official said the U.S. has engaged with Chinese officials "urgently," and President Biden has been briefed on the situation.

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley and vice chair Joint Chief Gen. Christopher Grady recommended against taking "kinetic action" because of danger from debris, the defense official said. The U.S. government has also determined the balloon does not pose a threat, the defense official said.

Pentagon spokesman Brigadier Gen. Patrick Ryder said that the balloon is "currently traveling at an altitude well above commercial air traffic and does not present a military or physical threat to people on the ground."

A U.S. official told CBS News that the balloon is flying at an altitude of about 66,000 feet. It can be maneuvered but it is also subject to the jet stream, which could eventually push it out of U.S. airspace, the official said.

Silos that can house intercontinental ballistic missiles are located around the Montana site — and jet fighters were scrambled to be in a position to shoot the balloon down.

While incidents like this have happened before, they've never lasted this long, according to a defense official. The U.S. has been tracking the balloon "for quite some time," as it entered U.S. continental airspace a couple of days ago, the official said.

The Pentagon's best assessment at the moment is that the balloon's surveillance capabilities are not a significant step up from what China is likely able to collect through other means like satellites in low earth orbit, according to a senior defense official. Out of an abundance of caution, the Pentagon has taken additional mitigation steps to protect certain sites.

A source familiar with the situation told CBS News that, when briefed on Wednesday, Mr. Biden had initially wanted to shoot down the balloon. But as he sought military options from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, Milley and others, they advised against such action because of the risk to Americans on the ground.


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stratozyck
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03 Feb 2023, 9:49 am

It was their intention for it to be seen prior to the upcoming diplomatic meeting. They want to send a message to Americans.

I suggest we ban products from China. It will hurt our economy initially but 5 years from now it won't be remembered and China will lose access to our markets. It will hurt them more than us.

We shouldn't enrich a country that is run by the CCP. They are outright evil.



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03 Feb 2023, 12:28 pm

stratozyck wrote:
It was their intention for it to be seen prior to the upcoming diplomatic meeting. They want to send a message to Americans.

I suggest we ban products from China. It will hurt our economy initially but 5 years from now it won't be remembered and China will lose access to our markets. It will hurt them more than us.

We shouldn't enrich a country that is run by the CCP. They are outright evil.


It'll never happen. There's too many useful idiots for the CCP in our country now.



ASPartOfMe
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03 Feb 2023, 3:20 pm

Blinken postpones high-stakes Beijing trip after suspected Chinese spy balloon is spotted over the U.S.

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Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Friday postponed a trip to Beijing next week after a suspected Chinese spy balloon was spotted over the United States, two U.S. officials told NBC News.

"We have concluded that the conditions are not right at this moment for Secretary Blinken to travel to China," a senior State Department official said.

The U.S. is "committed to maintaining open lines" with China "at all times, including during this incident," the official said, adding that Blinken planned to make the trip "at the earliest opportunity when conditions allow."

Even before it was scuppered, major issues beset the upcoming trip. But the news late Thursday that the U.S. military was monitoring the suspected Chinese spy balloon, which had flown over the Aleutian Islands and through Canada before moving into U.S. airspace, only added to the list of potential flashpoints.

On Friday, Chinese officials said the balloon was indeed theirs.

"The airship is from China. It is a civilian airship used for research, mainly meteorological, purposes," the Chinese Foreign Ministry said in a statement on its website.

"The Chinese side regrets the unintended entry of the airship into U.S. airspace due to force majeure," it said. It added that China would keep communicating with the U.S. to "properly handle this unexpected situation."

The ministry said the balloon "deviated far from its planned course" because of strong winds and a lack of steering ability. It has been spotted in Billings, Montana, some 6,000 miles from China.

Later on Friday, the Pentagon’s spokesperson, Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder, told journalists that the balloon was flying at an altitude of 60,000 feet — above civilian and military aviation — and moving eastwards across the continental U.S.

Asked about Chinese claims that it was a weather balloon, Ryder said it had the ability to maneuver and he was confident was a surveillance balloon.

The balloon revelation comes days before Blinken was due to visit China, the highest-ranking Biden administration official to do so.

Canada on Thursday said it was monitoring a "potential second incident" relating to a balloon. China has yet to respond to this statement.

In a brief statement late Thursday, the Canadian Department of National Defense said a high-altitude surveillance balloon had been detected and was being “actively tracked” by the North American Aerospace Defense Command, a U.S.-Canadian military organization. It did not provide details about the balloon or say whether it was the same balloon detected in the U.S.

“Canadians are safe and Canada is taking steps to ensure the security of its airspace, including the monitoring of a potential second incident,” it said, without elaborating.

The statement, which did not mention China, added that Canadian intelligence agencies were working with U.S. partners to protect against “foreign intelligence threats.”

The Canadian defense department did not immediately respond to phone calls and emails requesting additional information.

A senior U.S. defense official said Thursday the balloon was still over the United States but declined to say where. It has not been shot out of the sky so far, U.S. officials said, because falling debris could pose a safety risk to people on the ground. They said the balloon did not pose a threat to civil aviation and was of limited use in collecting intelligence, though Montana is home to one of America’s three nuclear missile silo fields at Malmstrom Air Force Base.

Staff members for the Gang of Eight⁠ — Congressional leaders briefed on classified issues ⁠—was given a classified briefing on the situation on Thursday afternoon, three sources familiar told NBC News.

The Gang of Eight includes Republican and Democratic leaders in the House and the Senate, as well as the chairs and ranking minority members of the House and the Senate intelligence committees.




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03 Feb 2023, 5:43 pm

Another article about why it’s a big deal:

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3843 ... -big-deal/

Maybe in hindsight they should have shot it down already when it was over a sparsely populated area. Maybe they still will shoot it down.

Or maybe they need a way to lasso it in the sky using similar gear to in flight refuelling planes ? Might be able to snag it and bring it down vs shoot it down. Then they don’t totally destroy it in the process and can learn more from it.


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03 Feb 2023, 6:04 pm

What an outrage!
Is anyone remotely surprised?
No other country behaves in such a despicable way.

Stay vigilant!
This can happen to U2. <satire> 8)



r00tb33r
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03 Feb 2023, 6:07 pm

So that's where my Mickey Mouse birthday balloon went!


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Pepe
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03 Feb 2023, 6:07 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Another article about why it’s a big deal:

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3843 ... -big-deal/

Maybe in hindsight they should have shot it down already when it was over a sparsely populated area. Maybe they still will shoot it down.

Or maybe they need a way to lasso it in the sky using similar gear to in flight refuelling planes ? Might be able to snag it and bring it down vs shoot it down. Then they don’t totally destroy it in the process and can learn more from it.


Use a BB gun to bring it down slowly. :mrgreen:



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03 Feb 2023, 6:10 pm

stratozyck wrote:

I suggest we ban products from China. It will hurt our economy initially but 5 years from now it won't be remembered and China will lose access to our markets. It will hurt them more than us.

We shouldn't enrich a country that is run by the CCP. They are outright evil.


Some products are already banned and some companies are too.
More needs to be done, however. 8)



Pepe
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03 Feb 2023, 6:22 pm

Quote:
“It’s the Chinese screwing with us,” he said. “They’re pushing us to see how we will respond.”


Indeed.

[PC free zone]
How "inscrutable". 8)
[/PC free zone]


Quote:
Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) said in a Friday appearance on “The Mike Gallagher Show” that it was “disappointing” the Pentagon “chose not to bring it down when it was over a sparsely populated area where they could have retrieved it.”

“If these things are flying over our airspace, and there’s an opportunity to bring them down, we’re going to do it,” Rubio said. “We’re not going to do it in a way that’s going to fall on a major city and kill anyone … [but] we have to make that pretty clear.”


I would have thought the Amerrrians would want to bring down the surveillance device to inspect it. :scratch:



r00tb33r
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03 Feb 2023, 6:59 pm

When a weather balloon went rogue almost 25 years ago, fighter jets fired 1,000 rounds at it and couldn't bring it down

As long as it's not the Sarah Palin type of going rogue.


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03 Feb 2023, 7:22 pm

Shooting Down Chinese Spy Balloon a Lot Harder Than it Seems

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The suspected Chinese spy balloon may be harder to shoot down than it would appear because of their "survivable" nature, according to military research. However, analysts say hitting one is easy but the difficulty stems from controlling its crash landing.

According to a 2009 research paper on stratospheric airships by Kevin Massie, a major in the U.S. Air Force, despite their large size they are "difficult to detect and if hit, do not immediately descend."

"Stratospheric airships are inherently stealthy. Because they contain inert gas and do not produce a significant amount of heat, [stratospheric airships] present a miniscule infrared signature at high altitude," he wrote.

"Because of their non-metallic structure and covering and a lack of rough edges, [stratospheric airships] also present a minimal radar return. Even with their immense size, [they] are also difficult to see optically at high altitude," Massie added.

However, the U.S.'s capability for detecting such objects may have improved in the past decade. And the balloon currently over the U.S. was spotted from a commercial airliner, according to the Wall Street Journal.

Rebecca Grant Ph.D., a national security analyst and aerospace expert at IRIS Independent Research, told Newsweek that tracking the balloon was "no problem," adding: "I expect they saw this on its way over across the Pacific, and it can be tracked internally by fighter radars, like the F-22s or F-15."

She noted: "This thing is enormous."

"It's no problem really to shoot at [the balloon]," Grant explained. "Consider that a fighter could use an air-to-air missile if it needed to be precise—and if the balloon is low enough, it's possible to use a gun as well.

"But the problem is when you puncture it, how long does it take for the gas to flow out, and as the balloon deflates, how long does it take, where does it go—so the issue is precisely predicting and controlling the potential crash sites," she added.

A senior administration official said that President Joe Biden had been briefed on the matter and had asked for military options, but had accepted the advice of defense chiefs against shooting the balloon down over fears it could end up hurting people on the ground.

"It sounds like they've considered shooting it down and probably those options are still on the table," Grant said. "What's holding them back on the technical side is the issue controlling the crash site."

Asked if the U.S. military could somehow capture the balloon to avoid an uncontrolled crash, Grant commented: "Back in Vietnam days, they did use helicopters and cargo planes to sort of fling reconnaissance drones and return them so they could get the film, so it's not so far-fetched; it's just been a while since we did anything like that. I'm sure the U.S. military could create a controlled crash of this balloon if the president asked them to."


Joe Biden 'Dithering' Over 'Brazen' Chinese Spy Balloon—Defense Analyst
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The White House has been accused of "dithering" as it faces up to the geopolitical ramifications of a suspected Chinese spy balloon drifting across the U.S. in a "brazen intrusion" into American airspace.

The emergence of the balloon in U.S. airspace comes just days before U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken was anticipated to travel to Beijing to meet the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping—the first such visit since the Donald Trump administration. The trip has now been postponed. One national security analyst suggested the two coinciding placed President Joe Biden in a bind.

"There's clearly dithering, there's been a lot of dithering at the White House over what to do," Rebecca Grant, a national security analyst and aerospace expert at IRIS Independent Research, told Newsweek.

"Beijing is probably trying to signal to Washington: 'While we want to improve ties, we are also ever ready for sustained competition, using any means necessary,' without severely inflaming tensions," He Yuan Ming, an air-power analyst, told the BBC. "And what better tool for this than a seemingly innocuous balloon."

While senior administration officials have stressed that the reconnaissance the balloon could do would be of limited value to the Chinese compared to the information they could acquire through other means, "someone in China thinks it can collect something of value," Grant said.

She added: "They may be wrong about that, but what bothers me is China's military sends this balloon or balloons over right at the time that Blinken is planning this visit, and that suggests a lack of coordination—and that's scary. Maybe they did it on purpose—and that's bad—or the Chinese Foreign Ministry just found out and someone's going to get fired."

While there is one spy balloon that is currently traveling over America, Canada said on Friday that it was tracking a "potential second incident"—opening the door for more balloons to possibly be sighted in the coming days. The U.S. Department of Defense stated that similar balloon activity had been observed "over the past several years."

"I think there's a geopolitical risk here; they might want to consider shooting this down. What happens when the next one comes over?" Grant said.

A 2009 research paper by the U.S. Air Force suggested stratospheric airships could loiter over an area for anywhere between five days and 12 months depending on propulsion and weather patterns.

"This is a very brazen intrusion and this balloon is different in that its intent is to loiter and collect," Grant commented. "So China should not end up thinking they got away with this balloon flight."

"It's interesting that they announced it because there were pictures, so they had to say something, but there's been a lot of dithering," she added. "They keep telling us their strategy with China is to invest and compete, but hey: it's just not cutting it at this point. Americans do not want Chinese spy balloons over our nuclear bases, so they're going to have to think about how to handle that now and maybe in the future. China would shoot it down if it was ours."


Chinese Spy Balloon May Be Watching Our Cellphone Traffic: Ex-U.S. Colonel
Quote:
The suspected Chinese spy balloon recently spotted over American airspace could be monitoring cellphone traffic in the U.S., according to a retired U.S. Air Force colonel.

Cedric Leighton, a CNN military analyst, told CNN's Erin Burnett that China could be "scooping up signals intelligence. In other words, they're looking at our cellphone traffic, our radio traffic."

Peter Layton, a fellow at the Griffith Asia Institute in Australia and a former Royal Australian Air Force officer, told CNN that the balloon could be gathering information on U.S. communication systems and radar.


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03 Feb 2023, 8:04 pm

stratozyck wrote:
I suggest we ban products from China. It will hurt our economy initially but 5 years from now it won't be remembered and China will lose access to our markets. It will hurt them more than us..


Nope...The Chinese navy entered Australian waters and fired lasers at our ships. Technically an act of war, What happended? nothing...

Both the US and Australia rely heavily on Chinese trade. Just take one example.
If the US banned tik tok, it would have an extreme negative psychological impact on US teens.
Teenagers spend on average 2hrs per day on Tik tok. 40% of US teens spend what would be considered excessive amounts of time on the platform. For many they get their news and feed about the outside world from the platform.

It's not like Russia where the pain is felt over price of gas and petroleum. A ban on China would hurt significantly.



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03 Feb 2023, 8:07 pm

Pepe wrote:
More needs to be done, however. 8)


Agreed, but how much pain will the electorate put up with?



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03 Feb 2023, 8:11 pm

I bet the Chinese are sorry they put those large Chinese characters on the side of the balloon :lol: (joke, I don't know how we knew the balloon was Chinese).


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03 Feb 2023, 8:26 pm

cyberdad wrote:
If the US banned tik tok, it would have an extreme negative psychological impact on US teens.

Only temporarily. Surely someone in the U.S.A., or in some allied country, could easily come up with a replacement for TikTok?


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