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magz
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21 Feb 2023, 9:10 am

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/bi ... 023-02-21/

I was really impressed that he went to Kyiv. East Europeans - Russians, Ukrainians, Poles alike - love symbols and I think Biden understands it. Physically popping up in Kyiv is a signal very strong and clear to read for everyone involved.

I don't have much opinions on Biden's domestic politics but this man does understand East Europe - or he listens to someone who does. And he has that quiet kind of courage.


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ASPartOfMe
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21 Feb 2023, 2:38 pm

’No sweeter word than freedom': Biden assails Putin and vows to keep helping Ukraine

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President Joe Biden framed the war in Ukraine on Tuesday as an existential test for democratic nations which are proving on the battlefield that they will aggressively defend political freedoms in the face of autocracies bent on extinguishing them for good.

Fresh off his surprise visit to Ukraine, Biden delivered a 20-minute speech here Tuesday that carried a sweeping indictment of Russian President Vladimir Putin, who launched the invasion exactly one year ago Friday.

Putin gravely miscalculated in assuming that Ukraine would swiftly crumble and its democratic allies would scatter as Russian forces advanced, the president said. The collapse never happened. As the war enters its second year, Putin has presided over a string of humiliating defeats, Biden added, striking a triumphal note.

“One year ago, the world was bracing for the fall of Kyiv,” Biden told an audience of thousands gathered in 44-degree weather outside the Royal Castle in Warsaw. “Well, I’ve just come from a visit to Kyiv and I can report, Kyiv stands strong. Kyiv stands proud. It stands tall. And most important, it stands free.”

"When President Putin ordered his tanks to roll into Ukraine, he thought we would roll over," he added. "He was wrong! The Ukrainian people are too brave. America, Europe, a coalition of nations from the Atlantic to the Pacific — we were too unified. Democracy was too strong. Instead of an easy victory he perceived and predicted, Putin left with burned-out tanks and Russian forces in disarray."

In his speech, Biden sought to make the case that more is at stake than Ukraine's independence.

"President Putin 's craven lust for land and power will fail, and the Ukrainian peoples' love for their country will prevail," he said. "Democracies of the world will stand guard over our freedom today, tomorrow, and forever. That's what's at stake here: Freedom.

Biden treated the speech as one of the most important of his presidency. It went through many drafts before reaching its final form, an administration official said. Biden and his national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, were photographed working on the text as they sat in a train car Monday, riding out of Ukraine and back to Poland.

A running thread was Putin's culpability as the architect of the invasion. Expanding on a speech given by Vice President Kamala Harris in Germany last week, Biden described a litany of Russian atrocities in carrying out the war. Russian forces and paid mercenaries had committed "crimes against humanity without shame or compunction," he said. They've bombed maternity hospitals and orphanages, spirited children out of the country and "used rape as a weapon" in trying to subdue Ukraine, he said.

Biden directly addressed Putin's claim that the West instigated the war. Hours before Biden spoke, Putin gave a speech of his own. He blamed the West for provoking the war, though he did not mention Biden by name.

Biden reiterated a point that the White House has been making for months: If Russia stops fighting, the war will end; if Ukraine stops fighting, it will vanish as a sovereign country.

The American president made a direct appeal to the Russian people, countering Putin's insistent claims that the West is to blame for the conflict.

"The West was not plotting to attack Russia, as Putin said today," Biden said.

"President Putin chose this war," he added. "Every day the war continues is his choice. He could end the war with a word.


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magz
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21 Feb 2023, 5:00 pm

I read commenters claiming "no gaffes this time" XD

He mentioned Belarus and Moldova. So USA started to notice them. I find this important.
He didn't mention planes.

But what I find more important than words was his visit in Kyiv - in a war-torn country, on a territorry not controlled by US Army. It wasn't only an act of courage and it wasn't just a symbol.
The more I think of it, the clearer I see it: it was also an act of enormous trust. Biden showed with his own neck that he considers Ukraine a deeply trusted ally.
That's more than words.


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21 Feb 2023, 8:29 pm

Biden has been round the block a few times. He lived through the Cold War. He’s a better president than Americans give him credit for.

I was also impressed he went to Kyiv. And glad he also went to Poland.


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Persephone29
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21 Feb 2023, 9:25 pm

You'll forgive me if I'm not impressed, I hope? I'm not unaffected by human suffering, but we're ringing in the billions of dollars for Ukraine, at this point. And meanwhile our "President" has yet to do anything to relieve the suffering of my countrymen and women in East Palestine, Ohio. Thirty year old men are coughing up blood, there's a blue oily sheen on the tops of all standing water, including water inside the houses of these people.

Biden is disgusting... especially given his son's connections to the region.


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21 Feb 2023, 9:28 pm

Uncle Joe, you're da man! :heart: :mrgreen:



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21 Feb 2023, 9:35 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Biden reiterated a point that the White House has been making for months: If Russia stops fighting, the war will end; if Ukraine stops fighting, it will vanish as a sovereign country.


HOOAH! 8)



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21 Feb 2023, 9:41 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Biden has been round the block a few times. He lived through the Cold War. He’s a better president than Americans give him credit for.


Yay, team Biden!
Well, apart from coming late to "The Party"...
And giving pootin the green light to invade Ukraine in a limited way. 8O :mrgreen:

To be klear:
He was magnificent when he went to Kyiv. 8)



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22 Feb 2023, 1:25 am

Persephone29 wrote:
You'll forgive me if I'm not impressed, I hope? I'm not unaffected by human suffering, but we're ringing in the billions of dollars for Ukraine, at this point. And meanwhile our "President" has yet to do anything to relieve the suffering of my countrymen and women in East Palestine, Ohio. Thirty year old men are coughing up blood, there's a blue oily sheen on the tops of all standing water, including water inside the houses of these people.

Biden is disgusting... especially given his son's connections to the region.


He isn't doing this for us. He is doing it for the international statement. And that statement seems to have been powerful.

I won't make any claims that Biden never acts selfishly or makes huge blunders. He's a politician and a human. But each and every action should be evaluated on its own merits or lack thereof.

Life isn't a zero sum game. Making this statement doesn't mean he doesn't have the right people dealing with matters at home. Internationally our world is in an ideological fight for the rights of self-governance and Democracy that will define the future our kids and grandchildren will experience. The dream of Democracy created at our founding is in real danger as a model of governance. I don't know how important any one move will prove to have been, but I do believe Biden understands what is really at stake.


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22 Feb 2023, 1:29 am

Pepe wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
Biden has been round the block a few times. He lived through the Cold War. He’s a better president than Americans give him credit for.


Yay, team Biden!
Well, apart from coming late to "The Party"...
And giving pootin the green light to invade Ukraine in a limited way. 8O :mrgreen:

To be klear:
He was magnificent when he went to Kyiv. 8)


I know you aren't Biden's biggest fan, so I appreciate you calling the shots regarding the visit on its own merits. It's useful feedback to have.


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magz
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22 Feb 2023, 4:42 am

Aren't fire brigades working round the clock in Ohio? That's what's needed there right now and I think it is being done.

blazingstar wrote:
He’s a better president than Americans give him credit for.

That's my impression, too. He isn't the kind of a person to hoard popularity and have psychofans. He doesn't interact with the American public particularily well. But, at least in geopolitics, he makes really well-thought and bold decisions.


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Pepe
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22 Feb 2023, 4:47 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
You'll forgive me if I'm not impressed, I hope? I'm not unaffected by human suffering, but we're ringing in the billions of dollars for Ukraine, at this point. And meanwhile our "President" has yet to do anything to relieve the suffering of my countrymen and women in East Palestine, Ohio. Thirty year old men are coughing up blood, there's a blue oily sheen on the tops of all standing water, including water inside the houses of these people.

Biden is disgusting... especially given his son's connections to the region.


He isn't doing this for us. He is doing it for the international statement. And that statement seems to have been powerful.


He has destroyed any suggestion that the Democrats are losing interest in supporting Ukraine.
Democrats for the win at the next Presidential elections, hooah! :mrgreen:



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22 Feb 2023, 4:53 am

Pepe wrote:
He has destroyed any suggestion that the Democrats are losing interest in supporting Ukraine.
Democrats for the win at the next Presidential elections, hooah! :mrgreen:
From my egoistic point of view - Democrats or "traditional" Republicans (Bush type) would be both okay. It's up to Americans and their own preferences in domestic matters. I might have some opinions but it's does not really affect me.
Just don't give us irresponsible isolationists or we have hot WWIII here in Europe and SHTF in Pacific.


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22 Feb 2023, 4:58 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Pepe wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
Biden has been round the block a few times. He lived through the Cold War. He’s a better president than Americans give him credit for.


Yay, team Biden!
Well, apart from coming late to "The Party"...
And giving pootin the green light to invade Ukraine in a limited way. 8O :mrgreen:

To be klear:
He was magnificent when he went to Kyiv. 8)


I know you aren't Biden's biggest fan, so I appreciate you calling the shots regarding the visit on its own merits. It's useful feedback to have.


I am The Oracle of Truth.
I say it as I see it.
The good, the bad, and the ugly.
The Truth has no political alliance.

If I haven't made it klear, I am all for a Democratic win at the next election, not because of American domestic politics, but because the Democrats are helping to secure both Australian and Ukrainian sovereignty against the aggressive autocracies of both Russia and the CCP.

On the other hand, Trump has made it all too klear that he is an isolationist.
If you were an Australian with no interest in learning Mandarin, who would YOU want to win the next Presidency? ;)

I am into "Practical" rather than "Ideological" Politics. 8)



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22 Feb 2023, 5:01 am

magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
He has destroyed any suggestion that the Democrats are losing interest in supporting Ukraine.
Democrats for the win at the next Presidential elections, hooah! :mrgreen:
From my egoistic point of view - Democrats or "traditional" Republicans (Bush type) would be both okay. It's up to Americans and their own preferences in domestic matters. I might have some opinions but it's does not really affect me.
Just don't give us irresponsible isolationists or we have hot WWIII here in Europe and SHTF in Pacific.


"We will have to agree to disagree." 8)
Democrats for the win, hooah! :ninja: