Might autistic women not be the best match for autistic men?

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There are of course men who simply don't care as long as they're able to be intimate with an attractive woman, and some who are outright predatory, but I'd like to believe (even if it's not necessarily a brilliant situation in itself) that some of those cases are simply "manic pixie dream girl" fantasies.

Naturally, we know as autistic people that more care and subtlety than that is required, that it's not a Hollywood movie of magical sparkles and fun times, but I've found even myself imagining that I could be a loving companion to a woman who is somewhat "out there", who I could help support in times of need, but could also enjoy the, er, well, joy of her more upbeat side.

It is, to me, often "cute" if a woman is a little shy, a little odd, a little... something, I don't know, it just makes me feel like I want to be protective, encouraging, and empowering, to be there for, to give to her what I want to experience myself. The connection, the humanity, the affection, the intimacy. I mean... you know, things you might expect from a close relationship, I suppose.

Well when women turn down autistic guys, do they give reasons if the autistic guys ask? For example, one time in the past, when I was single, a woman said she was worried I couldn't consent because of my autism. Is this the common reason why women turn us down or is it just the general social awkwardness and that's it?

I'd suggest that's a less common reason given. Although I suppose it might depend on how "visibly autistic" you are (I know you can't really "look" autistic, but I mean in terms of body language and such) and whether you disclosed it or not.

Personally, although I think for me at this point it's more about self-esteem and a fear of "behaving creepy" in a world with what seems to have ever decreasing tolerance for socially disadvantaged men (in terms of mistakes when socialising with women being considered offensive or even harassment), I would say that the main sticking point probably is the social awkwardness and anxiety.

Particularly with women who are used to more confident men, I appreciate it's going to come across as "off" somehow, it's going to be unattractive, it may indicate poor social conditioning which may lead to boring, embarrassing, awkward, or just plain unpleasant interactions.

Which I can't reasonably blame them for, but it does put us in rather a tough spot, we don't magically not have human desires simply because we had troubled formative periods or were late bloomers. Which again comes back to expecting autistic women to be more tolerant, more understanding, and more willing and able to look past the surface. I would hope they would know that a book shouldn't be judged by its cover and that, beyond the jacket illustration, the pages contain much more depth.

Oh I see. Have you tried picking up any women at all, and have any told you anything that could indicate why they rejected you, just out of curiosity?

No, unfortunately. It sounds like a step you would think I should take before being melodramatic about my future prospects, my position in the social order, or the state of dating. But I've been so comprehensively damaged and restricted by my life circumstances for so long it's been near impossible to do that.

From years of being bullied by peers in school, to years of watching others (NT) grow out of that and become very successful with women (sometimes to my detriment, as I felt out of my depth, too anxious, too little self-esteem, unwanted, and unable to compete), and then years of... let's say "an unfavourable family life" from which I couldn't escape due to not being able to get a job, trapped in a small home in a small dead town at the whims of parents who, to put it lightly "were not beneficial to my mental health", actively reinforcing the trauma I'd experienced before, physically and emotionally.

All of which is to say that I haven't even been able to try, I've felt that far removed from society for that long, so much at the mercy of others essentially my entire life, that I've only now just been able to begin unpacking all of this and looking to find solutions. But now, of course, I'm 20 years late. I have the romantic and sexual experience of a 16 year old, in the body of an almost 40 year old, which brings its own set of challenges.

No longer am I trapped, as I have been most of my life, but I don't know how to be active in my own life. I've spent that long forced to be passive, to be scared, to believe I don't deserve to be social, that I don't know how to learn the things I was denied decades ago. Especially relationships. I'm so late to the game, with such a gap in my social resumé, that even though I'm doing much better in life and have the space to start unpicking the mess, I'm increasingly aware of my age and the distance between me and anybody I'm likely to date (or even attempt to be friends with).

I'm sure I could've probably explained that a little more coherently, and with more nuance, but I'm not yet sufficiently full of caffeine. I hope it at least makes sense.

No, the 'i can't get a date ' threads do not imply this at all. The 'i can't get a date ' threads are predominantly from heterosexual men, and ND men outnumber ND women.

It makes sense. I am sorry so to hear that. I know that you do not want to go for someone younger, I am just trying to think of something one can do, to hopefully find a woman with less experience to be a better match, if that makes sense.

I forgot about that. I think the women go undiagnosed because I don't see why it should affect men more. But that's a debate for another thread.
On the topic:
I knew a very good looking lady who would say and do odd things but I just found it to be cute

That's exactly it: we find quirks and shyness/introversion/anxiety cute in women, we (well, some of us) want to care and nurture and protect those women, much as a woman might care for, nurture, and protect a child. But the chain only goes one way, there's nobody to care for, nurture, and protect us vulnerable men, we don't have anybody to do that for us (unless we're lucky enough to have seemingly rare caring and patient partners).



Thanks. I would've hoped that autistic women would be exactly that (or perhaps even other neurodiverse women, for that matter, again provided they're not so profoundly affected that I wouldn't be able to handle it), but as described in previous comments I think that's less of a viable option than I might've hoped for.

At the end of the day, it doesn't have to be an inexperienced woman, just as long as she cares enough to help me. If I can trust that she's going to be patient, that she's not going to insult or bully or ditch me for being inexperienced, that's absolutely fine. I'm happy to be vulnerable in that way, I just don't really know how to go about finding women like that without putting myself at huge risk of being used/abused/further traumatised and depressed by failure and mistreatment as a result of my inexperience.

I'm sort of glad traffic on this thread died down. I would like to explain why I created the thread.

So the first thing to point out is that a very high percentage of autistic women are asexual or not especially attracted to men, or have misgivings about sex in general or opposite gender sex in particular either due to bad experiences or sensory issues. So the autistic men in question probably won't get very far with any of them, assuming they expect a romantic partner to also be a sex partner, which is almost always true.

Assuming a woman is autistic and isn't one of the above I just mentioned, so I will state that I believe my two longest and most serious romantic relationships were with women (although at the time, the 1970s, I thought of them as girls not women) who were on the spectrum (before meeting my wife). Regarding the first, I only recently realized she was probably on the spectrum and would try to explain why if asked. The 2nd one was a manic pixie dream girl and I believe it's generally understood that type is perceived as autistic.

One thing both relationships had in common was that neither partner seemed to require regular reassurance of my feelings. Another is that neither ever withheld sex for any reason, nor insisted on being in the right mood before intimacy could happen. At the same time, neither was an especially exciting sex partner, perhaps because they both enjoyed sex as a physically gratifying activity you did with your boyfriend rather than a way to connect emotionally. The 2nd one, with more experience (they were both 20 at the time I met them) seemed to view her ability to attract male sexual interest and give guys what they wanted as a major part of her self-image.

The 2nd of those long-term girlfriends was weird enough to be off-putting to most people but I think guys sensed she would be would be easy to take to bed so the male attention may have caused her to not notice how weird most people thought she was (plus the fact that both her parents were probably ND in different ways). An advantage for me was that although I also thought she was weird when I first met her, I wasn't put off and was open to having a serious relationship with her, and I think having a boyfriend willing to publicly acknowledge her as his girlfriend was important to her. Interestingly, when I first seriously came on to her beyond just chatting her up, her response was more or less "why had it taken me so long" as she was apparently used to guys moving on her quickly.

Having said the above, I can also say that neither partner had a strong predisposition to life-long monogamy, and furthermore the topic of penis size came up during both relationships whereas it never did in my other relationships. I think that would have become a problem sooner or later. I should point out that neither relationship ended in a formal "break-up" they just sort of ended.

Because the 2nd relationship was more serious, I will mention how a less autistic boyfriend might have had an advantage. So like I implied this girl was inarguably weird but I had no trouble living with her as a couple for quite some time, on the other hand I never really tried to get to know her at a deeper level nor did I try to discuss our mutual feelings with her. I will mention one anecdote. So at that age, I used to drink quite a bit in fact my usual way to socialize involved alcohol. In later life I had a hard time getting used to the idea that one should enjoy social events because of the other people there not the alcohol. But when I was with this girl I don't recall ever feeling much need to drink nor do I recall very often bringing beer or liquor home for casual use. So one time she and I went to a Chinese restaurant, it was one of those old "traditional" Chinese restaurants where you ordered from Column A and Column B, and those places were known to pour strong drinks. So as we were drinking, I can recall we began gazing lovingly into each others' eyes and when I think about it maybe we should have shared alcohol more often because we probably had such feelings buried inside us. Anyway the point is that, had I had more empathy and a normal ability to feel and express romantic love for another person, the relationship would have been more successful.

In both that relationship and the previous one, it was easy and effortless to become part of a couple and stay together with a minimum of interpersonal conflict, but the strong bonds that might have preserved the relationship through "thick and thin" simply weren't there. So I think most relationships have a greater chance of long-term success if at least one partner has what would be considered a normal degree of empathy and theory of mind, even though this may cause more stress for the ND partner. I could add that if one is on the Autism Spectrum it's unlikely they will ever find themselves in a "perfect" relationship but then very few relationships are perfect. Like I said at the start of the thread, there are "success stories" but I don't think they're typical. I guess I would say that the ones that do succeed involve people who have been diagnosed as autistic and enter the relationship knowing that, are compatible in a lot of ways, and are committed to making the relationship work. When I was that age most autism apart from the more "severe" cases weren't diagnosed, you might always wonder why you were "different" but never had an answer.

What do you mean by "a very high percentage of autistic women are asexual or not especially attracted to men, or have misgivings about sex in general or opposite gender sex in particular either due to bad experiences or sensory issues?"


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34661809/

"Abstract

"Researchers have suggested that asexuality, which has been conceptualized traditionally as a persistent lack of sexual attraction to others, may be more common among individuals with autism spectrum disorder than in the neurotypical population. However, no studies to date have considered how these individuals understand and conceptualize their sexual identity. The aim of this study was to provide a more nuanced understanding of asexuality among individuals with high-functioning autism spectrum disorder (HF-ASD) than has been done in the past. Individuals with ASD, 21-72 years old (M = 34.04 years, SD = 10.53), were recruited from online communities that serve adults with ASD and Amazon's Mechanical Turk to complete an online survey of sexual and gender identity. Overall, 17 (5.1%) participants who met study criteria (N = 332) self-identified as asexual. However, 9 of the 17 people identifying as asexual expressed at least some sexual attraction to others. In addition, based on open-ended responses, some participants linked their asexual identity more with a lack of desire or perceived skill to engage in interpersonal relations than a lack of sexual attraction. Results suggest that researchers should be cautious in attributing higher rates of asexuality among individuals with ASD than in the general population to a narrow explanation and that both researchers and professionals working with individuals with ASD should consider multiple questions or approaches to accurately assess sexual identity."

I think it's a matter of semantics. The bottom line is that those people will be inhibited from engaging in sex and will be less receptive to sexual advances than their NT counterparts. The study doesn't seem to address the effects of negative sexual experiences i.e. abusive relationships from past partners or family members which is something I often see on WP and other spaces.

Although I suppose a bit of scientific rigor never hurt anybody.

One should not assume that NT's have better "theory of mind" in an absolute sense. NT's typically have much better "theory of NT mind," but not better "theory of autistic mind." The best person to empathize with an autistic person is another autistic person who either has similar traits or is well-educated about the many varieties of autistic traits.

The lack of empathy for autistic people by many NT's, as well as vice versa, is known as the "double empathy problem." Google "autism double empathy problem" for more info about this, including some scientific articles.


These days, of course, more and more of us are diagnosed, and more and more of us are educated about autism. Hence relationships between autistic people have become more and more likely to work well, and "success stories" hopefully much less rare.

I'm not very masculine but my gf is not very feminine either. I def can NOT provide for her financially since I'm disabled but she's also disabled & has some benefits I never had like housing assistance. She lived alone for a year & could not really handle it. Cass kinda just needs someone home with her sometimes even if we're doing our own things in seperate rooms. She woulda been forced to move back in with her parents if she didn't get in a relationship partner to move in with & there were some things she majorly disliked about moving back in with family. I was living with my parents partly cuz I didn't have other options & my mom majorly resented me for it.

Benefits are the reason me & Cass are not married. If we were married my income would be factored in with her housing assistance & SSI. Gov assistance & benefits do NOT keep up with the real inflation so budgeting & sticking to it is a struggle. I need to start looking for a job soon since I can earn a little money without my benefits being negatively affected(Social Security Disability, Medicare, Medicaid). Cass would have some concerns & restrictions on my work avilability thou like she wants me home at night & doesn't want me gone for a long time during the day so working 5 hour days 5 days a week would be OK but working one 8 hour day would not be.

I'm very attracted to that. I have that kind of relationship with my current girlfriend who's on the spectrum & she's a few months older than me. I also kinda had that with my 1st girlfriend who wasn't on the spectrum but was 5 years younger than me & had bad ADHD & dyslexia & some drug & alchol problems. I wanted that kinda thing with my 2nd girlfriend who was on the spectrum but despite her being 9 years younger than me, she was the type who wanted more space & independence. Her parents were very traditional & wanted our relationship on their terms & she was dependent on them to pay for her college & apartment. I felt like things were very one-sided & I took things out on her My point is that can be hit & miss with Aspie girls & some non-Aspie girls can also be like that but they may have things other than autism going on.

This does suggest two important concepts we mustn't overlook.

1.) The poster reports that he has met actual autistic women, however he found many of them to be physically unattractive. Now I don't dispute this, as a man I fully understand what that means. The problem though is that we keep hearing about how a.) autistic men yearn for a mythical autistic woman who will be their soul mate, and b.) autism is easier for women to deal with than men, because they can at least find sex partners. However, if somebody who might seem desperate for female companionship still rejects actual autistic women he met in the flesh due to not finding them attractive, then one must assume those women aren't having an easy time finding sexual gratification let alone long-term male companionship. Of course one must also ask oneself, is it possible for a man to convince himself that a woman whom he finds unattractive at first sight is actually a legitimate choice as a partner? I happen to believe this is possible to some limited extent anyway. I happen to live in the US and I see women who I would think would be considered unattractive by just about anybody who either have male partners accompanying them, or at a minimum have kids so clearly somebody was willing to have sex with them, at least. So the problem could actually be that of not finding attractive women who are on the AS, not that of being unable to find any autistic women.

2.) Autism manifests in women in many different ways. I have no problem believing the story about the woman who was into alcohol, drugs, and was "crazy" (possibly in the sense of being promiscuous)? So just because a woman is autistic doesn't mean she'll be a quiet sort who wants to stay home in the evening stroking a cat, reading 19th Century English novels, and giving her man affection when he asks for it. In fact, of the 2 partners I had who I claim were on the spectrum, the first one liked alcohol a great deal, in fact the one time I saw her after our relationship ended, she bragged to me about how she had discovered going to bars at night, drinking, and having sex with different guys she met there (note that the alcohol seemed to be as much of an attraction of that life style as the casual sex) and although for most women that might be seen as a confession, for her it was brag. The 2nd one wasn't much of a drinker but, although she had very strong feelings for me I have reason to believe she sometimes hooked up with other guys on the side, even though that may have only happened on occasion, still such behavior would be considered promiscuous by a great many people. And I'll go further and say that autism (in certain women) might actually tend to predispose them to such behavior, especially if the woman pursues it on her own rather than as part of a posse of fellow "party girls".