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Dengashinobi
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31 Mar 2023, 9:44 am

Fascism in America comes from the left. Fascism is about the state controlling things. Democrats also support that idea. The only alternative is deregulation and shrinkage of the government's role as much as possible.



JimJohn
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31 Mar 2023, 9:50 am

Clearly, the most fascist development in politics is weaponizing the criminal justice system to attack political opponents.



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31 Mar 2023, 10:34 am

JimJohn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Aspinator wrote:
I feel one of the main reasons is that people won't admit Trump is a fascist. He has openly stated he doesn't believe in democracy and that the press is the enemy of the people I can't believe that some members of his party openly support a Trump dictatorship. There's a reason he supports Putin and Kim Jong Un; they are role models to him.


News Update: Trump hasn’t been President for three years now.

He did not state he doesn’t believe in democracy. That is ludicrous. He certainly had a lot to say about the press most of which appears true.

It isn’t his party. That is like saying it is Gerald Ford’s party. Granted, Gerald Ford is dead.

Why wouldn’t I admit that Trump is facist? He didn’t fuel a war in Europe. I will admit that he made a lot of claims of election fraud. That is a bit suspect.

But … he is out of office. Everything was peaceful until all those George Floyd protests with ANTIFA. You can’t really blame him for any of that. ANTIFA and those protesters are not exactly Republican.

I have a big issue with people calling January 6th an insurrection and that Trump was the ring leader. Very few people want Trump as President again but it is disgusting to watch people lie about things.


No, Trump hasn't been President since he LOST to Biden. That said, he has pushed the baseless lie that the election had been stolen from him, and has made clear he still has Presidential ambitions. His acolytes in government are keeping MAGA fascism alive and well, and are also promoting the slow motion coup by voter suppression, along with the lie that Trump had defeated Biden. All that is latent fascism in waiting, its adherents plotting to do away with the rule of law and free government, all for Trump's cult of personality.


I don’t think you know what his adherents think or want. You are just regurgitating what you hear from Whoopie Goldberg and those other stupid people on the voice or whatever.

I certainly admit that claims of election fraud are unsettling. I would never vote for Trump if there was a good alternative.

Also, why can I not have concerns about voting that does not require identification? That is also unsettling. What does the vote miraculously change after election night. Why not instill confidence in the voting system instead of obscuring it? Why obscure it?


I don't listen to Whoopi Goldberg.
There's something sinister going on when one can use a gun license to vote in some states, but not a college ID.
If it seemed that the vote changed "miraculously overnight," it's because the mail-in-votes had yet to be counted. So, no great conspiracy. Incidentally, there had been an attempt to throw out the votes of the whole population of Detroit by Republicans, all on the lie that there had been widespread cheating there (no, just a majority black electorate). Then there was the matter of the state of Texas planning to overturn the vote of another state, the whole hairbrained fake elector scheme by Trump and company, and the earlier attempt to gum up the mail by Trump's Post Master General in order to interfere with the mail-in-vote. It's attempts by the right like this by the right to interfere with the vote that are actually alarming.
So called attempts to "instill confidence in voting" has more to do with voter suppression aimed at groups of Americans who traditionally vote Democrat.
As far as voter fraud is concerned: it's been proven to be virtually nonexistent. Voter fraud in the last election was more often than not committed by Trump voters, and by organized right wing attempts to suppress the vote of poor and minority voters by limiting the number of voting stations, and by closing down licensing offices in poor and minority areas where ID could be purchased.


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JimJohn
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31 Mar 2023, 11:17 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Aspinator wrote:
I feel one of the main reasons is that people won't admit Trump is a fascist. He has openly stated he doesn't believe in democracy and that the press is the enemy of the people I can't believe that some members of his party openly support a Trump dictatorship. There's a reason he supports Putin and Kim Jong Un; they are role models to him.


News Update: Trump hasn’t been President for three years now.

He did not state he doesn’t believe in democracy. That is ludicrous. He certainly had a lot to say about the press most of which appears true.

It isn’t his party. That is like saying it is Gerald Ford’s party. Granted, Gerald Ford is dead.

Why wouldn’t I admit that Trump is facist? He didn’t fuel a war in Europe. I will admit that he made a lot of claims of election fraud. That is a bit suspect.

But … he is out of office. Everything was peaceful until all those George Floyd protests with ANTIFA. You can’t really blame him for any of that. ANTIFA and those protesters are not exactly Republican.

I have a big issue with people calling January 6th an insurrection and that Trump was the ring leader. Very few people want Trump as President again but it is disgusting to watch people lie about things.


No, Trump hasn't been President since he LOST to Biden. That said, he has pushed the baseless lie that the election had been stolen from him, and has made clear he still has Presidential ambitions. His acolytes in government are keeping MAGA fascism alive and well, and are also promoting the slow motion coup by voter suppression, along with the lie that Trump had defeated Biden. All that is latent fascism in waiting, its adherents plotting to do away with the rule of law and free government, all for Trump's cult of personality.


I don’t think you know what his adherents think or want. You are just regurgitating what you hear from Whoopie Goldberg and those other stupid people on the voice or whatever.

I certainly admit that claims of election fraud are unsettling. I would never vote for Trump if there was a good alternative.

Also, why can I not have concerns about voting that does not require identification? That is also unsettling. What does the vote miraculously change after election night. Why not instill confidence in the voting system instead of obscuring it? Why obscure it?


I don't listen to Whoopi Goldberg.
There's something sinister going on when one can use a gun license to vote in some states, but not a college ID.
If it seemed that the vote changed "miraculously overnight," it's because the mail-in-votes had yet to be counted. So, no great conspiracy. Incidentally, there had been an attempt to throw out the votes of the whole population of Detroit by Republicans, all on the lie that there had been widespread cheating there (no, just a majority black electorate). Then there was the matter of the state of Texas planning to overturn the vote of another state, the whole hairbrained fake elector scheme by Trump and company, and the earlier attempt to gum up the mail by Trump's Post Master General in order to interfere with the mail-in-vote. It's attempts by the right like this by the right to interfere with the vote that are actually alarming.
So called attempts to "instill confidence in voting" has more to do with voter suppression aimed at groups of Americans who traditionally vote Democrat.
As far as voter fraud is concerned: it's been proven to be virtually nonexistent. Voter fraud in the last election was more often than not committed by Trump voters, and by organized right wing attempts to suppress the vote of poor and minority voters by limiting the number of voting stations, and by closing down licensing offices in poor and minority areas where ID could be purchased.


I guess by gun license you mean a “concealed carry permit”. To get one of those in my area you have to take a class and have the prosecutor’s office sign off on it.

I can see why there would be more faith in that than a college ID. With a college ID, I could make up the name of an online university and use photo shop to make an ID. Perhaps, you see sinister where sinister does not exist.

Perhaps, some of your other points are valid but when it comes down to voting it is what common person perceives. Why not communicate it somehow to get message the message across?

I just punched a hole in the gun license rhetoric. I ain’t got a gun license and there ain’t no such thing.

As far as licensing offices go. I had think three times over to even know what you were talking about. You are talking about Department of Motor vehicles or maybe Passport Offices. To say that closing those offices in minority communities is some sort of voter suppression strategy sounds like a conspiracist theory to me. My experience with the government is that it has a lot of minorities in it’s ranks unless you live in some place like Washington State. Washington DC is 75% minority.



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31 Mar 2023, 3:13 pm

JimJohn wrote:
Clearly, the most fascist development in politics is weaponizing the criminal justice system to attack political opponents.

You mean when trumplestiltskin send Bill Barr’s DOJ after Biden, Hunter Biden, and others ? And when he sent the IRS after a couple FBI officials and others ? That sort of behaviour ?


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31 Mar 2023, 7:34 pm



Another video that sums up the right. They want to punish anybody who deviates from the traditional 1950s nuclear family, and from the societal norms of that decade.


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Last edited by Tim_Tex on 31 Mar 2023, 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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31 Mar 2023, 8:08 pm

JimJohn wrote:
Fact check that if you like. It does seem that there were many black slave owners that owned many slaves. It is part of the census. If you find convincing evidence my facts are incorrect I will admit it unlike the rest of you all.


That I'm afraid is a non-sequitur, The miniscule numbers of black slave holders were still subject to US constitution pre-1880s which was written by the founding fathers which allowed for free black men and their families living in the south to be kidnapped and sold into slavery themselves (needless to say these black entrepreneurs were armed to the teeth). If they lived in the north they could still be transported south or arrested without court or trial. They lived a precarious existence, For the vast majority of blacks they were subject to any random cruelty from any member of the citizenry (whom I understand enthusiastically metered out this out right up to the 1960s), One only has to look at the photos of white mobs made up of Europeans of all background (probably including recent migrants and even Jews) who seem to be driven by some type of psychopathic zeal when they screamed violence at small black children who were permitted to enter white schools, or black women who wanted to sit at the front of the bus, buy property in a white neighborhood or eat at a white's only diner, The images of police with dogs attacking young black people in the 1960s is a mirror image of the Gestapo using dogs to attack jews who dared walk on the wrong side of the street. Their children and grandchildren who are still alive today can't have forgotten their parent's language,

And even in Jim Crow era ironically needed the protection of other white people if they were asked to enter white towns to purchase goods to avoid being accosted. This is literally why the NACCP and the civil rights movement started due to fear that existed and the ever impending threat that any economic gain made could be pillaged or plundered by a white mob.

If thats not fascist I don't know what is?



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31 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Fact check that if you like. It does seem that there were many black slave owners that owned many slaves. It is part of the census. If you find convincing evidence my facts are incorrect I will admit it unlike the rest of you all.


That I'm afraid is a non-sequitur, The miniscule numbers of black slave holders were still subject to US constitution pre-1880s which was written by the founding fathers which allowed for free black men and their families living in the south to be kidnapped and sold into slavery themselves (needless to say these black entrepreneurs were armed to the teeth). If they lived in the north they could still be transported south or arrested without court or trial. They lived a precarious existence, For the vast majority of blacks they were subject to any random cruelty from any member of the citizenry (whom I understand enthusiastically metered out this out right up to the 1960s), One only has to look at the photos of white mobs made up of Europeans of all background (probably including recent migrants and even Jews) who seem to be driven by some type of psychopathic zeal when they screamed violence at small black children who were permitted to enter white schools, or black women who wanted to sit at the front of the bus, buy property in a white neighborhood or eat at a white's only diner, The images of police with dogs attacking young black people in the 1960s is a mirror image of the Gestapo using dogs to attack jews who dared walk on the wrong side of the street. Their children and grandchildren who are still alive today can't have forgotten their parent's language,

And even in Jim Crow era ironically needed the protection of other white people if they were asked to enter white towns to purchase goods to avoid being accosted. This is literally why the NACCP and the civil rights movement started due to fear that existed and the ever impending threat that any economic gain made could be pillaged or plundered by a white mob.

If thats not fascist I don't know what is?


In 1921, an entire neighborhood in Tulsa, Oklahoma was destroyed because a white woman falsely accused a black man of rape (the 20s equivalent of a Karen). The neighborhood, called Greenwood, was a prosperous, predominantly black area, referred to as "Black Wall Street".

That was also the excuse people had for banning alcohol and marijuana for the next several decades--because they thought their use would result in white women being raped by non-whites--a fear that still exists in some circles.


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cyberdad
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31 Mar 2023, 10:22 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
In 1921, an entire neighborhood in Tulsa, Oklahoma was destroyed because a white woman falsely accused a black man of rape (the 20s equivalent of a Karen). The neighborhood, called Greenwood, was a prosperous, predominantly black area, referred to as "Black Wall Street".

That was also the excuse people had for banning alcohol and marijuana for the next several decades--because they thought their use would result in white women being raped by non-whites--a fear that still exists in some circles.


I believe all of this falls under what the republicans label CRT which is why they are trying ban teaching black history in schools. Conservative historians claim it over-catastrophises events in American history which covers up how integral all of this was to the development of the United States.



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31 Mar 2023, 10:49 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
In 1921, an entire neighborhood in Tulsa, Oklahoma was destroyed because a white woman falsely accused a black man of rape (the 20s equivalent of a Karen). The neighborhood, called Greenwood, was a prosperous, predominantly black area, referred to as "Black Wall Street".

That was also the excuse people had for banning alcohol and marijuana for the next several decades--because they thought their use would result in white women being raped by non-whites--a fear that still exists in some circles.


I believe all of this falls under what the republicans label CRT which is why they are trying ban teaching black history in schools. Conservative historians claim it over-catastrophises events in American history which covers up how integral all of this was to the development of the United States.


The irony is that some chapters of the KKK had initiation rites for new members that involved raping black women.


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31 Mar 2023, 10:59 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
The irony is that some chapters of the KKK had initiation rites for new members that involved raping black women.


Explains Why prominent genealogist Henry Louis Gates conducted one of the widest genetic surveys of African Americans in collaboration with a number of DNA labs and found
58 percent of African Americans have at least 12.5% European ancestry (equivalent of one great-grandparent);
19.6 percent of African Americans have at least 25% European ancestry (equivalent of one grandparent);
1 percent of African Americans have at least 50% European ancestry (equivalent of one parent) (Gates is one of these, he discovered, having a total of 51% European ancestry among various distant ancestors);
The 1% represents recent interaction but the other 78% of African Americans are descended from not just one but multiple rapes.



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31 Mar 2023, 11:06 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Why are we so fascist?

Because people still have these mindsets:










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01 Apr 2023, 9:48 am

I've always told friends and classmates from overseas who asked some version of that question, that a nation-state pretty much ends up where it started; from the beginning of its iteration to the end. If it began as a genocidal, expansionist slaveocracy or an empire, it will surely show in that country's present.



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01 Apr 2023, 10:08 am

In the US one can be put on a terrorism watch list for openly declaring oneself anti-fascist. Very few people outside Italy call themselves Fascist, but expressing fascist ideas publicly won't get you in trouble in the US.


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01 Apr 2023, 6:00 pm

I think the modern US is no longer a fascist state but the sudden rise in Trump in 2016 shows that many of the underlying issues (and legacies) have not been dealt with and America remains fractured along political and sociodemographic lines.



JimJohn
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02 Apr 2023, 8:18 am

goldfish21 wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Clearly, the most fascist development in politics is weaponizing the criminal justice system to attack political opponents.

You mean when trumplestiltskin send Bill Barr’s DOJ after Biden, Hunter Biden, and others ? And when he sent the IRS after a couple FBI officials and others ? That sort of behaviour ?


On that front I would look to the FBI and big tech companies squashing the Hunter Biden story to manipulate the election. I would also look at how crooked James Comey was.

But … yes I could potentially see it on both sides. I see Trump paying hush money for a personally embarrassing situation less sinister than Biden’s brother, sister, and son peddling their name to foreign adversaries for documented cash.