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DW_a_mom
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07 Apr 2023, 6:33 am

goldfish21 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Like it or not, this is raising money and galvanizing support. Trump's popularity was dying a natural death, until now. It's pointless to argue these points right now, you're just too hopped up on your revenge. But he lives for this stuff, he won't go to jail. And they won't bankrupt him in his lifetime. This was an untimely and stupid move on behalf of the DA.


Despite being someone who was eager to see Trump caught for his crimes, I have to agree this particular indictment is probably going to prove to have been a counterproductive move in multiple ways. I hope to be wrong, but I'm not convinced I am. It's frustrating to watch. Really frustrating.

Just because he’s good at making a spectacle and getting attention doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be charged for certain crimes. The law applies to everyone. He should be charged for all of his crimes.


Not all crimes get prosecuted. There is a pragmatic side to these decisions, weighing costs, merits of the case, severity, etc. They've used a lot of contortions to get to the felony level so that the statute of limitations hasn't expired, when they could easily have accepted that the statute of limitations was gone. I just don't think this is all going to play out the way the prosecutors hope.


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goldfish21
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07 Apr 2023, 6:37 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Like it or not, this is raising money and galvanizing support. Trump's popularity was dying a natural death, until now. It's pointless to argue these points right now, you're just too hopped up on your revenge. But he lives for this stuff, he won't go to jail. And they won't bankrupt him in his lifetime. This was an untimely and stupid move on behalf of the DA.


Despite being someone who was eager to see Trump caught for his crimes, I have to agree this particular indictment is probably going to prove to have been a counterproductive move in multiple ways. I hope to be wrong, but I'm not convinced I am. It's frustrating to watch. Really frustrating.

Just because he’s good at making a spectacle and getting attention doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be charged for certain crimes. The law applies to everyone. He should be charged for all of his crimes.


Not all crimes get prosecuted. There is a pragmatic side to these decisions, weighing costs, merits of the case, severity, etc. They've used a lot of contortions to get to the felony level so that the statute of limitations hasn't expired, when they could easily have accepted that the statute of limitations was gone. I just don't think this is all going to play out the way the prosecutors hope.

Cool story.

Spending over half a million dollars to suppress bad news in order to influence the outcome of an election and then covering it up is a crime, though. Soooo.. I'm glad he's getting prosecuted for it.


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07 Apr 2023, 10:49 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Like it or not, this is raising money and galvanizing support. Trump's popularity was dying a natural death, until now. It's pointless to argue these points right now, you're just too hopped up on your revenge. But he lives for this stuff, he won't go to jail. And they won't bankrupt him in his lifetime. This was an untimely and stupid move on behalf of the DA.


Despite being someone who was eager to see Trump caught for his crimes, I have to agree this particular indictment is probably going to prove to have been a counterproductive move in multiple ways. I hope to be wrong, but I'm not convinced I am. It's frustrating to watch. Really frustrating.

Just because he’s good at making a spectacle and getting attention doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be charged for certain crimes. The law applies to everyone. He should be charged for all of his crimes.


My dirty, stinking, ratbag right-wing source believes Trump being charged was just a stunt by the Democrats.
The thinking, by the Democrat strategists, might be that Trump is less likely to win than a non-narcissistic alternative, so they want him to win the selection process.

Popcorn, anyone?


..he wasn’t indicted by partisan politicians. He was indicted by a DA following NY State law.


According to my dirty right.......(you know the drill), the judge is a politically left-wing social climber.
Assuming that to be True, you do "the math".



DW_a_mom
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07 Apr 2023, 10:50 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Like it or not, this is raising money and galvanizing support. Trump's popularity was dying a natural death, until now. It's pointless to argue these points right now, you're just too hopped up on your revenge. But he lives for this stuff, he won't go to jail. And they won't bankrupt him in his lifetime. This was an untimely and stupid move on behalf of the DA.


Despite being someone who was eager to see Trump caught for his crimes, I have to agree this particular indictment is probably going to prove to have been a counterproductive move in multiple ways. I hope to be wrong, but I'm not convinced I am. It's frustrating to watch. Really frustrating.

Just because he’s good at making a spectacle and getting attention doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be charged for certain crimes. The law applies to everyone. He should be charged for all of his crimes.


Not all crimes get prosecuted. There is a pragmatic side to these decisions, weighing costs, merits of the case, severity, etc. They've used a lot of contortions to get to the felony level so that the statute of limitations hasn't expired, when they could easily have accepted that the statute of limitations was gone. I just don't think this is all going to play out the way the prosecutors hope.

Cool story.

Spending over half a million dollars to suppress bad news in order to influence the outcome of an election and then covering it up is a crime, though. Soooo.. I'm glad he's getting prosecuted for it.


Not accurate.

Suppressing bad news isn't a crime all by itself. Reporting the hush payments as legal expenses of a business is the crime, normally a misdemeanor subject to a two year statute of limitations. All 34 charges related to different instances of misreporting. In order to be able to prosecute at this late date they had to connect the misreporting to a felony, an entirely separate crime that he hasn't actually been charged with. That attempted connection is surely going to be a large part of the defense. Without it, they are past the statute of limitations and can't prosecute.

We have statues of limitations for a reason, so while it seems most people don't care as long as the man goes to jail, it is worth remembering that every case sets precedence for other cases you may not feel the same way about. I'm not ready to say goodbye to all our statutes of limitations, personally. With other more solid cases in the works against Trump, I'm just not sure this stretching of our legal boundaries is worth it. Plus the fact that it gives a whole lot of fodder to the right, and Trump is milking it to his benefit.

I honestly don't think that most voters are fully understanding the law being used, or the potential long term ramifications. I think most on the left stopped at "cool, he got indicted," and most on the right stopped at "wow the left is on a witch hunt." The reality is a whole lot more nuanced.


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goldfish21
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07 Apr 2023, 10:58 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Cool story.

Spending over half a million dollars to suppress bad news in order to influence the outcome of an election and then covering it up is a crime, though. Soooo.. I'm glad he's getting prosecuted for it.


Not accurate.

Suppressing bad news isn't a crime all by itself. Reporting the hush payments as legal expenses of a business is the crime, normally a misdemeanor subject to a two year statute of limitations. All 34 charges related to different instances of misreporting. In order to be able to prosecute at this late date they had to connect the misreporting to a felony, an entirely separate crime that he hasn't actually been charged with. That attempted connection is surely going to be a large part of the defense. Without it, they are past the statute of limitations and can't prosecute.

We have statues of limitations for a reason, so while it seems most people don't care as long as the man goes to jail, it is worth remembering that every case sets precedence for other cases you may not feel the same way about. I'm not ready to say goodbye to all our statutes of limitations, personally. With other more solid cases in the works against Trump, I'm just not sure this stretching of our legal boundaries is worth it. Plus the fact that it gives a whole lot of fodder to the right.

There’s enough evidence in the pubic domain from multiple trump lawyers saying exactly why the three payments were made and when. trump apparently tried to push repayment of one of them to the Inquirer guy to after the election so he could stiff him on the bill because he didn’t care if the info came out After the election, proving that those payments were made to influence the election.

From all the news I’ve heard the DA is playing within statute of limitations laws based on the crimes committed. There’s no special consideration to extend the time period because it’s trump - it’s because of the multiple crime felony law thing.


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07 Apr 2023, 11:46 pm

so a prosecutor
set you back on your heels,
goody goody!
So you met your match
now you know how it feels,
goody goody!
So you put out your evil doing,
and he gave it right back to you,
he's gonna break you into little pieces,
and now how do you do?

So you'll lie awake
just singing the blues all night,
goody goody!
So you think high crimes are a
barrel of dynamite-
hurray and hallelujah!
You had it coming to ya,
goody goody you trump,
goody goody for us,
and I hope you're satisfied
you rascal you!

[with apologies to johnny mercer]



DW_a_mom
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08 Apr 2023, 1:51 am

goldfish21 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Cool story.

Spending over half a million dollars to suppress bad news in order to influence the outcome of an election and then covering it up is a crime, though. Soooo.. I'm glad he's getting prosecuted for it.


Not accurate.

Suppressing bad news isn't a crime all by itself. Reporting the hush payments as legal expenses of a business is the crime, normally a misdemeanor subject to a two year statute of limitations. All 34 charges related to different instances of misreporting. In order to be able to prosecute at this late date they had to connect the misreporting to a felony, an entirely separate crime that he hasn't actually been charged with. That attempted connection is surely going to be a large part of the defense. Without it, they are past the statute of limitations and can't prosecute.

We have statues of limitations for a reason, so while it seems most people don't care as long as the man goes to jail, it is worth remembering that every case sets precedence for other cases you may not feel the same way about. I'm not ready to say goodbye to all our statutes of limitations, personally. With other more solid cases in the works against Trump, I'm just not sure this stretching of our legal boundaries is worth it. Plus the fact that it gives a whole lot of fodder to the right.

There’s enough evidence in the pubic domain from multiple trump lawyers saying exactly why the three payments were made and when. trump apparently tried to push repayment of one of them to the Inquirer guy to after the election so he could stiff him on the bill because he didn’t care if the info came out After the election, proving that those payments were made to influence the election.

From all the news I’ve heard the DA is playing within statute of limitations laws based on the crimes committed. There’s no special consideration to extend the time period because it’s trump - it’s because of the multiple crime felony law thing.



Let me try to break this down a little bit further. You can't understand this from reading general news on it; reporters aren't lawyers (or doctors or educators, etc; basically, they are always writing about something they aren't experts in), and as someone I used to work with used to say, be thrilled if a news story gets the details 80% right.

The falsifying business records charge is a misdemeanor with a two year statute of limitations. Simple fact. That charge most people believe can be proven. A bit of a complication in that the funds came from a personal account, so are business records really involved, but lets take it as a given.

Misdemeanor charges in New York have a two year statute of limitations.

Today is more than two years after the crime occurred.

To bring the charges, the DA had to assert it was a felony, which is not the normal state for that crime.

To turn the misdemeanor into a felony, it has to occur in connection with a different felony. Trump has not been charged with any felonies. Not by the state court. Not in any court. So the DA will be arguing the business record falsification is connected to a crime that hasn't been proven or even charged anywhere, and that most likely won't be. And the DA is going to have to prove that element in order to get past the two year problem. But if such a felony actually occurred, why hasn't any agency pursued it? The defense will certainly hammer that point.

Changing direction a little.

One comment I heard today is that charges are so weak and disappointing that it may well be scaring Georgia off from making their case. Georgia's hurdle for credibility has now gone up.

The worry is, is anyone watching out for the long game here?

Apparently Bragg had to come up with charges because he won election on that platform. But, again, are these the right charges to be moving forward with?


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goldfish21
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08 Apr 2023, 3:16 am

Charges on all of his crimes are the right ones to move forward with, so, yes.


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08 Apr 2023, 4:39 pm

Image


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08 Apr 2023, 6:53 pm

Quote:
Trump is ‘something of a martyr’: Court appearance will ‘embolden him’
April 08, 2023 - 8:55AM

Donald Trump’s recent court appearance is a “big boost” to the Former US President’s popularity and will “embolden” him, says Former member of the Australian House of Representatives Peter McGauran.

“The question is can he retain it – I doubt it,” Mr McGauran told Sky News Australia.

“I think he will begin to slide again.

“But at the moment, he’s something of a martyr because it is the worst politicisation of the legal system most Americans would ever have envisaged.”


https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/u ... erallPos=7



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08 Apr 2023, 7:40 pm

Pepe wrote:
Quote:
Trump is ‘something of a martyr’: Court appearance will ‘embolden him’
April 08, 2023 - 8:55AM

Donald Trump’s recent court appearance is a “big boost” to the Former US President’s popularity and will “embolden” him, says Former member of the Australian House of Representatives Peter McGauran.

“The question is can he retain it – I doubt it,” Mr McGauran told Sky News Australia.

“I think he will begin to slide again.

“But at the moment, he’s something of a martyr because it is the worst politicisation of the legal system most Americans would ever have envisaged.”


https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/u ... erallPos=7


Did that new talking guy also report that trump is form NYC has lived in Manhattan for years and managed to get a whopping few dozen people or so out to the courthouse in support of him?


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08 Apr 2023, 8:12 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Quote:
Trump is ‘something of a martyr’: Court appearance will ‘embolden him’
April 08, 2023 - 8:55AM

Donald Trump’s recent court appearance is a “big boost” to the Former US President’s popularity and will “embolden” him, says Former member of the Australian House of Representatives Peter McGauran.

“The question is can he retain it – I doubt it,” Mr McGauran told Sky News Australia.

“I think he will begin to slide again.

“But at the moment, he’s something of a martyr because it is the worst politicisation of the legal system most Americans would ever have envisaged.”


https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/u ... erallPos=7


Did that new talking guy also report that trump is form NYC has lived in Manhattan for years and managed to get a whopping few dozen people or so out to the courthouse in support of him?


I'll get back to you on that. (-#)



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09 Apr 2023, 12:58 am

Looks like Trump is taking his indictment pretty hard

Image

Well, if he does go to jail (assuming), he's had a great ride



Pepe
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09 Apr 2023, 4:38 am

cyberdad wrote:
Looks like Trump is taking his indictment pretty hard

Well, if he does go to jail (assuming), he's had a great ride


I would be shocked if an ex-president goes to gaol.
Tell me IF it happens.
I won't hold my breath.

But if he DOES end up in gaol, "Drinks for all". :mrgreen:



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09 Apr 2023, 4:56 am

Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Looks like Trump is taking his indictment pretty hard

Well, if he does go to jail (assuming), he's had a great ride


I would be shocked if an ex-president goes to gaol.
Tell me IF it happens.
I won't hold my breath.

But if he DOES end up in gaol, "Drinks for all". :mrgreen:


Yeah judging by Trump's bravado he doesn't seem to expect to go to jail



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09 Apr 2023, 7:15 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Some personal attacks and responses to them have been removed.

C'mon guys, you know better than that.


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