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Pepe
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12 Apr 2023, 1:13 am

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Who Made Religion Up?


Apparently, evolution did.
Based on the findings of anthropologists, it is reasoned that the concept of a deity or afterlife was not possible until a part of the frontal cortex developed.
Don't tell this to theists. 8O



naturalplastic
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12 Apr 2023, 3:29 am

Evolution through natural selection favors ....belief in God!

And God equipped us with the brain power to figure out the truth...that evolution through natural selection has to be true, and that belief in a creator is nonsense.

And to realize that natural selection also...favors people who believe in God.

So for that reason you then you adopt the belief in God, but then your realize that he equipped you with the ability to reason out the fact ...God cant possibly exist so....



Pepe
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12 Apr 2023, 3:45 am

^I'll have what he's having. 8O



Fnord
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12 Apr 2023, 3:47 am

JimJohn wrote:
According to a YouTube video I was watching . . .
Well, THERE is your problem!

People can put practically anything up on YouTube unless it is extremely violent or pornographic.  This leaves a lot of room for anyone with an Internet connection, a lot of imagination, and too much time on their hands to come up with some of the most outlandish works of fiction since Cyrano de Bergerac.

Now, please provide a link to the alleged video, and where in any of Josephus' works a citation can be made that favors your claims.

Keep in mind that not only do I have direct and immediate access to encyclopedias of the Greek and Hebrew Bibles, but I also have "The Complete Works of Josephus" staring at me from a bookshelf less than 2 meters away.

And, by the way, my wife is an ordained pastor and I am an ordained elder -- both in the Presbyterian tradition.

So, game on?


:twisted:


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JimJohn
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12 Apr 2023, 6:22 pm

Fnord wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
According to a YouTube video I was watching . . .
Well, THERE is your problem!

People can put practically anything up on YouTube unless it is extremely violent or pornographic.  This leaves a lot of room for anyone with an Internet connection, a lot of imagination, and too much time on their hands to come up with some of the most outlandish works of fiction since Cyrano de Bergerac.

Now, please provide a link to the alleged video, and where in any of Josephus' works a citation can be made that favors your claims.

Keep in mind that not only do I have direct and immediate access to encyclopedias of the Greek and Hebrew Bibles, but I also have "The Complete Works of Josephus" staring at me from a bookshelf less than 2 meters away.

And, by the way, my wife is an ordained pastor and I am an ordained elder -- both in the Presbyterian tradition.

So, game on?


:twisted:


Is an eternity burning in hell worse than a death on a cross?

If a God appears to die and reappears did the God die? Did he take a pain pill?

Who does a God make deals with in exchange for pretending to die?

These are just questions not claims.

If you start with the assumption that something is ridiculous, it doesn’t really matter who in fact made it up. You would just pick out likely suspects and possible motives.

Here is another thing I saw on YouTube. Supposedly, Jesus died so that human sacrifices were no longer required. Apparently, there are some references to that. Otherwise, where are they coming up with that one?

In my post I said the Josephus thing was crazy. I am not going to argue on behalf of something I think is crazy.

I could go on about other crazy things. Supposedly, the story of the Garden of Eden is based on an older story of an actual garden and a prince. Those types of similarities are interesting. I actually don’t see that one as crazy. That one seems rather factual.



Pepe
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12 Apr 2023, 9:02 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
I think it may have begun as an evolutionary-driven bias in humans


When humanity/huwomanity evolved into a self-aware creature, the question of existential validation became important.
Presumably, with self-awareness came the desire for intrinsic meaning in life, the universe, and everything.
In the absence of any tangible proof of this, fantasy manifested itself as a band-aid solution.
POOF! God was born. Halleluya!

It appears god did not make man...
MAN made god!
The impertinence! 8O



ToughDiamond
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13 Apr 2023, 11:45 am

Pepe wrote:
When humanity/huwomanity evolved into a self-aware creature, the question of existential validation became important.
Presumably, with self-awareness came the desire for intrinsic meaning in life, the universe, and everything.
In the absence of any tangible proof of this, fantasy manifested itself as a band-aid solution.
POOF! God was born. Halleluya!

It appears god did not make man...
MAN made god!
The impertinence! 8O

Strangely enough, the notion that there's no external purpose for my existence doesn't make me feel uncomfortable. Yet I'm perfectly aware that I exist. How come I don't feel any need to see a cosmic plan for the human race? I'd be tempted to think it's down to the different brain wiring of ASD, but empirical evidence shows that ASD isn't a bar to religiosity.



JimJohn
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13 Apr 2023, 3:07 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Pepe wrote:
When humanity/huwomanity evolved into a self-aware creature, the question of existential validation became important.
Presumably, with self-awareness came the desire for intrinsic meaning in life, the universe, and everything.
In the absence of any tangible proof of this, fantasy manifested itself as a band-aid solution.
POOF! God was born. Halleluya!

It appears god did not make man...
MAN made god!
The impertinence! 8O

Strangely enough, the notion that there's no external purpose for my existence doesn't make me feel uncomfortable. Yet I'm perfectly aware that I exist. How come I don't feel any need to see a cosmic plan for the human race? I'd be tempted to think it's down to the different brain wiring of ASD, but empirical evidence shows that ASD isn't a bar to religiosity.


Perhaps, your ASD prevents you from opening your heart to God, and he is in fact communicating with others. You just can’t hear it. I am just saying it as a weird possibility. Someone else will say no that is not how it works.

Perhaps, you are not chosen. I am sure you know this but in the realms of possibility God does not have to honest or benevolent. There could alternate possibillities if someone enumerated them.



rse92
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13 Apr 2023, 3:21 pm

babybird wrote:
Anyway I heard that jesus likes to take it up the shitter. What does the bible says about that.


"But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."

Luke 6:27-28. The nature of Christianity is such that you can write that post without a fatwa coming down on your head.



ToughDiamond
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13 Apr 2023, 4:04 pm

JimJohn wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
Pepe wrote:
When humanity/huwomanity evolved into a self-aware creature, the question of existential validation became important.
Presumably, with self-awareness came the desire for intrinsic meaning in life, the universe, and everything.
In the absence of any tangible proof of this, fantasy manifested itself as a band-aid solution.
POOF! God was born. Halleluya!

It appears god did not make man...
MAN made god!
The impertinence! 8O

Strangely enough, the notion that there's no external purpose for my existence doesn't make me feel uncomfortable. Yet I'm perfectly aware that I exist. How come I don't feel any need to see a cosmic plan for the human race? I'd be tempted to think it's down to the different brain wiring of ASD, but empirical evidence shows that ASD isn't a bar to religiosity.


Perhaps, your ASD prevents you from opening your heart to God, and he is in fact communicating with others. You just can’t hear it. I am just saying it as a weird possibility. Someone else will say no that is not how it works.

Perhaps, you are not chosen. I am sure you know this but in the realms of possibility God does not have to honest or benevolent. There could alternate possibillities if someone enumerated them.

Well, "perhaps" is the operative word there. Perhaps there are millions of mysterious, invisible entities calling me via mysterious undiscovered senses. But the simplest explanation is that there's nothing incoming and that we only have our usual 5 senses. That fits the observable facts very well without having to recourse to plucking extraordinary theories out of thin air, though it's not very exciting and it rather rules out the comforting notion of an afterlife.



Fnord
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13 Apr 2023, 9:58 pm

JimJohn wrote:
Is an eternity burning in hell worse than a death on a cross?
It is a popular misconception that damned souls will burn in Hell for all eternity, when the actual case is that damned souls are obliviated -- they simply cease to exist.  This is the "Second Death", the first being the death of the body.  Physical death on a cross is/was excruciating.  Soul death . . . there will be no you to even realize you are dead.
JimJohn wrote:
If a God appears to die and reappears did the God die? Did he take a pain pill?
Facetious questions.  The body of Jesus died (the 1st day), lay in a tomb (the 2nd day), and resurrected (the 3rd day).  Jesus' soul (God, the father) can never die and -- having absolute power over even His Son's death -- re-entered and restored Jesus' body to life.
JimJohn wrote:
Who does a God make deals with in exchange for pretending to die?
Another facetious question.  God made no deal and did not pretend to die.  Full stop.
JimJohn wrote:
These are just questions not claims.
Questions made out of ignorance of God's plan for salvation, no doubt.
JimJohn wrote:
If you start with the assumption that something is ridiculous, it doesn’t really matter who in fact made it up.  You would just pick out likely suspects and possible motives.
Your assumptions are not mine.  And you have the forensics procedure backwards; first, you determine probable motive, then you search for possible suspects who may have those motives.
JimJohn wrote:
Here is another thing I saw on YouTube. Supposedly, Jesus died so that human sacrifices were no longer required. Apparently, there are some references to that. Otherwise, where are they coming up with that one?
John 19:28-30.  "After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, "I thirst!"  Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth.  So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.  Only Jesus could be the ultimate and perfect atoning sacrifice that would end all atoning sacrifices.
JimJohn wrote:
In my post I said the Josephus thing was crazy. I am not going to argue on behalf of something I think is crazy.
Well, that is a relief.  But then, why argue at all?
JimJohn wrote:
I could go on about other crazy things.  Supposedly, the story of the Garden of Eden is based on an older story of an actual garden and a prince.  Those types of similarities are interesting.  I actually don’t see that one as crazy.  That one seems rather factual.
Sadly, you are letting videos posted on YouTube do your thinking for you.  You would be far better off to read the Scriptures, the Prophesies, the Gospels, and the Epistles found in the Bible for your self, and maybe even seek out the fellowship of Christian believers.

May you find both peace and salvation in doing so.


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ToughDiamond
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13 Apr 2023, 11:51 pm

JimJohn wrote:
If a God appears to die and reappears did the God die?

You raise an interesting question. If the definition of death is taken as:
"a permanent cessation of all vital functions : the end of life"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/death
then no, the god didn't die.
But it depends on whether or not this notion of an immortal soul is correct. Then you have a model where the soul leaves the body and then returns to it later on, and somehow the decaying corpse is reordered. To me that's a very odd theory.



Pepe
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14 Apr 2023, 12:37 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
Pepe wrote:
When humanity/huwomanity evolved into a self-aware creature, the question of existential validation became important.
Presumably, with self-awareness came the desire for intrinsic meaning in life, the universe, and everything.
In the absence of any tangible proof of this, fantasy manifested itself as a band-aid solution.
POOF! God was born. Halleluya!

It appears god did not make man...
MAN made god!
The impertinence! 8O

Strangely enough, the notion that there's no external purpose for my existence doesn't make me feel uncomfortable. Yet I'm perfectly aware that I exist. How come I don't feel any need to see a cosmic plan for the human race? I'd be tempted to think it's down to the different brain wiring of ASD, but empirical evidence shows that ASD isn't a bar to religiosity.


More rational ppl tend to have a belief system built on reason rather than faith.
Aspies, by and large, tend to be more rational.



Pepe
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14 Apr 2023, 12:47 am

Fnord wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Is an eternity burning in hell worse than a death on a cross?
It is a popular misconception that damned souls will burn in Hell for all eternity, when the actual case is that damned souls are obliviated -- they simply cease to exist.  This is the "Second Death", the first being the death of the body.  Physical death on a cross is/was excruciating.  Soul death . . . there will be no you to even realize you are dead.


And THIS is my perfect concept of heaven: Oblivion.
After THIS s**thole, why would I take a chance on another potentially worse imaginative creation that may suit some but not others?
Sitting on a fluffy white cloud learning to play the harp is NOT my idea of a fun way to experience eternity. 8)



JimJohn
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14 Apr 2023, 9:04 am

Fnord wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Is an eternity burning in hell worse than a death on a cross?
It is a popular misconception that damned souls will burn in Hell for all eternity, when the actual case is that damned souls are obliviated -- they simply cease to exist.  This is the "Second Death", the first being the death of the body.  Physical death on a cross is/was excruciating.  Soul death . . . there will be no you to even realize you are dead.
JimJohn wrote:
If a God appears to die and reappears did the God die? Did he take a pain pill?
Facetious questions.  The body of Jesus died (the 1st day), lay in a tomb (the 2nd day), and resurrected (the 3rd day).  Jesus' soul (God, the father) can never die and -- having absolute power over even His Son's death -- re-entered and restored Jesus' body to life.
JimJohn wrote:
Who does a God make deals with in exchange for pretending to die?
Another facetious question.  God made no deal and did not pretend to die.  Full stop.
JimJohn wrote:
These are just questions not claims.
Questions made out of ignorance of God's plan for salvation, no doubt.
JimJohn wrote:
If you start with the assumption that something is ridiculous, it doesn’t really matter who in fact made it up.  You would just pick out likely suspects and possible motives.
Your assumptions are not mine.  And you have the forensics procedure backwards; first, you determine probable motive, then you search for possible suspects who may have those motives.
JimJohn wrote:
Here is another thing I saw on YouTube. Supposedly, Jesus died so that human sacrifices were no longer required. Apparently, there are some references to that. Otherwise, where are they coming up with that one?
John 19:28-30.  "After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, "I thirst!"  Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth.  So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.  Only Jesus could be the ultimate and perfect atoning sacrifice that would end all atoning sacrifices.
JimJohn wrote:
In my post I said the Josephus thing was crazy. I am not going to argue on behalf of something I think is crazy.
Well, that is a relief.  But then, why argue at all?
JimJohn wrote:
I could go on about other crazy things.  Supposedly, the story of the Garden of Eden is based on an older story of an actual garden and a prince.  Those types of similarities are interesting.  I actually don’t see that one as crazy.  That one seems rather factual.
Sadly, you are letting videos posted on YouTube do your thinking for you.  You would be far better off to read the Scriptures, the Prophesies, the Gospels, and the Epistles found in the Bible for your self, and maybe even seek out the fellowship of Christian believers.

May you find both peace and salvation in doing so.


The Bible clearly says non believers burn in Hell for eternity. That seems like an inconvenient truth for you.



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14 Apr 2023, 9:07 am

Fnord wrote:
Sadly, you are letting videos posted on YouTube do your thinking for you.  You would be far better off to read the Scriptures, the Prophesies, the Gospels, and the Epistles found in the Bible for your self, and maybe even seek out the fellowship of Christian believers.

May you find both peace and salvation in doing so.


Where THERE'S your problem! Don't let archaic cult writings do your thinking for you. :wink:


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