Regarding Netflix's Black Cleopatra

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You have to ask them. I think part of the problem is education in the black American community and what it means to seek out your ancestral roots/cultural representation.

Black Americans got the 2nd grade "hand me downs" in terms of history books from white schools for decades and so their insight into history was always substandard. Secondly they want to be recognised by white Americans as having achieved great things. The problem is they are completely indoctrinated by Jim Crow philosophy (we know whom we can thank for that state of affairs). So naturally they want to be part of the "white" landscape (e.g. Brigerton, Sandition Charlotte, Cleopatra) in seeing somebody who looks like them being a celebrated historic figure.

Yes there are real historic black figures who existed but because they are downplayed in "white history" then black kids don't read about them either. In that respect you can't blame Pinkett-Smith too much (as tempting as that might be) for her ignorance.

Yeah. Cleopatra was a glamorous well known figure.

Twenty years ago I thought that they should make a movie about Chad's war against Kaddaffi, and how his 40 ton Soviet tanks were defeated by guys with rocket launchers standing in the beds of toyota pick up trucks.

Something for everyone. White rednecks love to hate Khaddaffi, and the film would depict actual Black Black folks outwitting and out fighting a non Black enemy.

Trouble is that since then Toyota trucks have become the favorite vehicle of our terrorist enemies around the world as well (the Chaddians started it and it became a trend). So that would take some of the cachet out of a Toyota War movie. But still a real life version of "Road Warrior" with Blacks as protagonists might still work.


https://youtu.be/_xicb6r_mJs

Toussaint Louverture. I don't think Black Americans are all that indoctrinated; there is Black History Month is the States, children and adults learn about G.W. Carver, Charles Richard Drew the Hematologist who contributed to blood banking etc

Duhhhhh...

Yes. "Allen Toussant" was a great mid 20th Century African American musician, record producer, and R+B pioneer of New Orleans .

Toussant Le Overture (who ironically has the more music related sounding name of the two) was the Black Haitian revolutionary leader of old.

Egypt to make its own documentary on Queen Cleopatra in response to Netflix's historical revisionism.

https://greekcitytimes.com/2023/05/09/e ... a-netflix/

If you read the Egyptian lawyer, Mahmoud al-Semary's words he says “Most of what Netflix platform displays do not conform to Islamic and societal values and principles, especially Egyptian ones.”

So the re-made documentary will likely reflect current Arabic islamic values which will make it just as bad as the Netflix drama. The obsession over a Greek queen who is a coloniser over the indigenous people of Egypt 1000 years before any Arab set foot in Egypt shows how equally ignorant the reactionaries are.

I won't be watching the Egyptian islamic brotherhood's remake of a Ptolemaic Greek-Macedonian Queen either.

I usually choose what to watch by IMDB scores , anything under 5/10 is a no no unless I'm really interested.
Incidently, Queen Cleopatra on Netflix scored 1.2/10 (25,000 votes) and I'm pretty sure it scored this low due to it claiming it was a documentary not for its entertainment value.

Reviews went from:

A New Look at an Ancient Story 10/10
A realistic depiction of cleopatra. 9/10
Now we know people rate movies off being racists 9/10

to

This isn't a documentary. Its a parody 1/10
next? a documentary of Bruce Lee with a non chinese actor 1/10
I did it. I watched the whole thing 1/10


It's almost worth watching due to the controversy

I think Netflix could easily resolve the controversy (now that they have had their free publicity) and just remove the word documentary from the title.

I quite liked the response from actress India Amarteiflo to the inclusion of diversity in Bridgerton, Sanditon and Charlotte and framed in terms of the "world of Shondaland" (a reference to producer Shonda Rhimes) indicating they are a light hearted re-make of historical figures for the sole purpose of entertainment.

This harks back I suppose to the olden day puppet shows where you could caricature real personalities as puppets. I am sure people living in Shakespeare's time would have a hearty belly laugh if one was to criticise the use of hand puppets or marionettes or over stylised Shakespearean actors instead of casting an actor who exactly resembles the person they were playing

Wasn't it released 3 days ago? Has there been a press junket yet? Far too early to change tact, plenty more free publicity to be had

Oh true! yes, my personal thought is Netflix are making too much money out it to agree

Finally, some sensible academic voices on the matter of Egyptian identity.
Arab speaking Egyptians and critics of casting black people in Egypt should probably watch this video before throwing around accusations and claims

Why did you bother posting this?

A. Its central thesis is total BS

B. Even if it were not BS it would be totally irrelevant. Cleopatra would still not be Black.
The issue is not casting Blacks to play ancient Egyptians. Its casting a Black to play a particular Egyptian who was not Black.

Its BS because their claim that the Sahara is not a barrier to migration is nonsense. Further they claim that anyone who claims that it is a barrier is making it into "a magic wall". But they themselves create their own "magic wall" by implying that there an equally miraculous "magic barrier" across the Sinai that walls off Egypt from migrations from the Middle East and western Asia. Egypt is a cross roads of migration from both Asia and Africa.

The same Egyptian girl who spoke nothing but the truth in the earlier video is back. Speaking more truth. With some added stats and science about Egyptian genetics.


https://youtu.be/4KVRXt5FVX8

I am thinking deeper about the issue than you are willing to dive. Much of the "culture" that is Egypt it's gods, beliefs and even writing hark back to a time when the sahara was fertile/green and there was no barrier between what is today called subsaharan Africa and north Africa. You choose to ignore the central thesis the academic in the video is making which is going back to the dawn of Egyptian civilisation there was no such thing as "unique" populations in the region, people moved easily back and forth from all over Africa.

I am, however, sceptical over the level of cultural influence from the levant/middle east for one very simple reason. When you cross into Gaza and the levant the culture and beliefs are 100% different from before the new kingdom. If you look at modern Egypt it's literally a clone of every other Arab nation because Arabic culture (which is contemporaneous in terms of age with Egypt) is patriarchal/dominant. This is a result of more relatively recent incursions from the middle east from about the new kingdom in Egyptian history. The cultural influence was obvious ranging from the dilution of indigenous Egyptian culture, their gods all the way to the loss of technological knowledge (the latter pharaohs from the new kingdom onwards were never capable of emulating their forbearers engineering feats.

But this was not the case back in the old and middle kingdoms of Egypt. The overall mistake Eurocentric archaeology makes is projecting the composition of "known": new kingdom Egypt back on populations and historic periods of Egypt where the Eurocentrics may as well be guessing and are probably no more credible than the afrocentrics

You do realise she (and her Arab speaking fellow Egyptians) are using this issue as click bait for clout right? Her latest video shows she is getting volumes of hate from black people all over the world. Surprising? not really, she knows what she's doing. All the traffic is boosting her internet profile and she's making money from all these angry blacks.

She and others are entitled to convey their point of view. But as far as claiming cultural ownership over Cleopatra > Kevin Hart or Jada Pinkett Smith, it's really a nonsensical debate. It would be equivalent to Elizabeth Warren claiming cultural ownership of native American culture or Selena Gomez claiming cultural ownership over Mayan culture. Do you know what they all have in common? they might have 1% genetic connection to ancient builders and 0% cultural or spiritual connection to those cultures.

Some cultures - Gobleke tepe in Turkey, Egypt, Sumer or Indus Valley are so ancient and so culturally unique that the people who lived in these regions back then have no relationship to the people who occupy the region now. This makes the responsibility for those ancient sites/cultures a global responsibility and we are all vested in those great cultures. Another example is western China (Xinjiang), In ancient times the region was occupied by tall Indo-European semi-pastoral nomadic tribes called Tocharians. Today the people who occupy this same region are nomadic Uyighers who are Turkic speaking muslims who look Chinese. They have little or nothing in common, genetically, culturally, religiously, spiritually with the Tocharians. They have no memory of these previous cultures.

Modern Arabs pay no heed to the builders of the pyramids or to the Greek lineage of Cleopatra and her ancestors. They raided the buildings for treasure/booty and used the stones for making mosques. They sold antiquities to greedy unscrupulous European collectors. In modern times its become fashionable for Arab speaking Egyptians to seek adjacency to ancient Egypt because its a tourist drawcard and there is international social currency and clout. But beyond lip service Arab Egypt is a conservative society and whether copt or muslim their cultural identity is not connected to the ancient cultures that happen to have existed on the lands they now occupy.

Sigh...

You're spewing too much BS, give it a break.



The liturgical language of the Copt church is the Coptic language, which is the direct descendant of the ancient Egyptian language, and it was used to decipher the hieroglyphs; so how is that not a connection?

Coptic is a) written in greek script and influenced by other languages following various invasions b) it's liturgical but is an extinct language no longer spoken by anyone in Egypt.