Abortion rights.

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blitzkrieg
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28 Sep 2023, 7:01 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

blitzkrieg wrote:

Stopping people having abortions is essentially anti individual liberty, on a personal level.

On a societal level, Western Europeans & North Americans are going to have a population crisis since babies aren't being replaced at a sufficient rate for a stable population size, or population growth.

Forcing women to have babies they don't want might slow that trend down.

But I don't think that is why abortions are frowned upon or legislated against by US Republicans. It is more of a political thing to the end of controlling women's bodies.

If anything abortion bans may increase the problem, since it makes it hard for women who want to have a baby to get an abortion if complications happen later, which could potentially cause their death or just ruin their uterus, so they won't be able to try again. Also, a lot more women who want children may be afraid of getting pregnant because they're worried, they won't get proper care if things go wrong.

Abortion bans in Poland do not seem to have helped with their declining birth rate for instance.

I suppose the risk of ruining one's uterus would rely on an attempted (and complicated) abortion. I think a lot of people would just have a baby if abortions were banned, rather than risk a dodgy abortion. But that's just an opinion.

It would be interesting to see some science or statistics on the subject.

magz
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28 Sep 2023, 7:08 am

blitzkrieg wrote:

It would be interesting to see some science or statistics on the subject.

Poland.
Generally restrictive abortion rights.
Restricted even more October 2020.
Life birth chart:

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blitzkrieg
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28 Sep 2023, 7:11 am

magz wrote:

blitzkrieg wrote:

It would be interesting to see some science or statistics on the subject.

Poland.
Generally restrictive abortion rights.
Restricted even more October 2020.
Life birth chart:

Interesting. It would seem that for Poland, more restrictions on abortions from 2020, seems to have had no effect on curbing the declining birth rate, according to the chart you provided.

magz
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28 Sep 2023, 7:14 am

Maybe you missed my post on the previous page - it never had any chance of curbing this trend.

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blitzkrieg
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28 Sep 2023, 7:17 am

magz wrote:

Maybe you missed my post on the previous page - it never had any chance of curbing this trend.

Oh right. Yeah, I must have skipped over your post, my bad.

I did read it just now.

GeekyFreak
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28 Sep 2023, 11:44 am

blitzkrieg wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

blitzkrieg wrote:

From my understanding, the US helped legalize it originally because of how common complications from "coat hanger" and "Pennyroyal" abortions were.

blitzkrieg
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28 Sep 2023, 1:48 pm

I have heard of coat hanger abortions, but what is a pennyroyal abortion? I have never heard of that one.

Kitty4670
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29 Sep 2023, 8:16 pm

This abortion ban is VERY STUPID. Why is this happening? Why girls & women are forced to have babies? I read a 10 year old girl got pregnant cuz of rape, one doctor gave her an abortion, that doctor got a fine, I didn’t read everything. There are alot of women that have mental illness, if she get pregnant & don’t want the baby, she have to be force to give birth, what happens if she kills the baby, I read about that. The world is Pretty Scary now. What happened to freedom? Before there were abortion bans, Alyssa Milano was one of them that keep posting on her Instagram page about it.

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Sweetleaf
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29 Sep 2023, 8:30 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

blitzkrieg wrote:

The risk of ruining the uteres I was referring to is if the woman cannot get an abortion on time when something is wrong with the fetus, and it like dies inside of her and she gets sepsis or something like that.

I imagine a dodgy abortion could also cause damage, but that's why it's important for it to be legal and safe. Abortions done the right way do not damage the woman in any way, aside from if they wanted the baby but the risks are too high so they have to abort that could cause some emotional turmoil for sure. But worse turmoil if they have to stay pregnant with a baby that will die as soon as its born, rather than allowing them to get the abortion and start their grieving process.

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blitzkrieg
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29 Sep 2023, 8:37 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

blitzkrieg wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

blitzkrieg wrote:

Surely there will be some kind of availability of an emergency abortion, if a woman needs it to keep alive herself? Would there not be a distinction of necessary versus unnecessary abortions, were an abortion ban to take effect?

I am not saying I support abortion bans in any way, by the way. I am communicating without political bias here.

Sweetleaf
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30 Sep 2023, 12:05 am

blitzkrieg wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

blitzkrieg wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

blitzkrieg wrote:

There are supposed to be exceptions for the life of the mother being in danger in red states, the issue is then there is bureaucracy to determine if the abortion procedure can be oked or not, and that takes time in which the womans condition can deteriorate before a decision can be made. But if the doctor decides to take action before the decision is made, because they want to save the patient they risk their entire livelihood. This is why people say abortions should only be between pregnant people and their doctor...if the state gets involved with that it gets messy. Like if a doctor knows a pregnancy will risk the life of the pregnant person, they cannot perform an abortion till those complications start happening...wheres would be better to abort before those happen where possible.

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auntblabby
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30 Sep 2023, 1:09 am

Kitty4670 wrote:

it is happening because people vote for republicans. it wouldn't be happening otherwise.

RetroGamer87
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30 Sep 2023, 3:51 am

auntblabby wrote:

Kitty4670 wrote:

it is happening because people vote for republicans. it wouldn't be happening otherwise.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why people would want to vote republican.

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magz
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30 Sep 2023, 4:41 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

Yes, that's what's happening.
It's still legal here to abort a pregnancy that causes threat to the woman's life but it means docs wait until the threat to life is obvious... which means every now and then someone dies, otherwise the life threat would have not been obvious, would it?

When it comes to abortion vs demographics - at least in Poland, people don't use abortions to regulate when they want children and how many of them. Most typically, they use condoms.
I heard it was different in Soviet Russia but that's a whole different story.

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auntblabby
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30 Sep 2023, 4:56 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Kitty4670 wrote:

it is happening because people vote for republicans. it wouldn't be happening otherwise.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why people would want to vote republican.

because they hate the rest of us for not being like them.

funeralxempire
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11 Oct 2023, 1:23 am

blitzkrieg wrote:

I have heard of coat hanger abortions, but what is a pennyroyal abortion? I have never heard of that one.

Pennyroyal is an herb that causes miscarriage.

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