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FranzOren
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22 Nov 2023, 8:57 pm

When I told some people that I have severe Dyscalculia and that I don't know how to do most basic math and that I don't know how to do Calculus even, some of them think that I am using that as an excuse for not being good at math. I had failed math most of my school years and it's not just me being only bad at math, and I still don't know how to do most basic math as a 22 year old and that is not normal. I tried explaining that to them, but they didn't listen.

Some people think that everyone can learn math, the question is if they understand that when you reach a limit before Dyscalculia manifests.



colliegrace
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22 Nov 2023, 11:03 pm

Sadly it's hard to convince some people that learning disabilities do, in fact, disable you from doing some stuff.


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Patrick22348
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23 Nov 2023, 12:46 am

FranzOren wrote:
When I told some people that I have severe Dyscalculia and that I don't know how to do most basic math and that I don't know how to do Calculus even, some of them think that I am using that as an excuse for not being good at math. I had failed math most of my school years and it's not just me being only bad at math, and I still don't know how to do most basic math as a 22 year old and that is not normal. I tried explaining that to them, but they didn't listen.

Some people think that everyone can learn math, the question is if they understand that when you reach a limit before Dyscalculia manifests.


In my experience, you actually need to learn indexing (basically recording and sorting out random data) before you learn math. Rather than be good at math, be good with inputting and sorting data so you get a feel for individual numbers and how different numbers are just a count different "things" so to speak, for example, 5 apples on monday. You should make lists of stuff you do, such as things you bought, did, etc, put them on excel and this should stimulate your brain on conceptualizing numbers.

When you do learn math all you need is understanding of fractions and percentages if you want to apply it for work. Do not bother with academic pursuits that must require math. Be really understanding of multiplication, division, subtraction and addition for fractions, this is all you need. Don't bother with algebra, don't bother with teachers who don't understand your Dyscalculia.


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autisticelders
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23 Nov 2023, 6:33 am

some people don't understand that they can't train a fish to climb a tree either.

Ignorance abounds, unless they insist on you performing math for them , it might be a moot point. People insist that I can learn "how to" do many things that my sensory processing differences will not let me do, either.

Either I explain that I have a processing disorder and they accept it, or they try to coach me out of it... "anybody can do it" well, no, we can't.

Cheering you on, you know yourself and your best strengths and your weaknesses better than anybody else.
Do what is right for you and don't worry about what others "think".


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naturalplastic
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23 Nov 2023, 11:03 am

FranzOren wrote:
When I told some people that I have severe Dyscalculia and that I don't know how to do most basic math and that I don't know how to do Calculus even,

.


I apologize for being a mean old nitpicker, but...
This sentence doesnt make any sense.

You apparently dont understand what the word "calculus" means. :D

Calculus is a certain advanced kind of mathematics that most students in school never even get to. Its the exact opposite of "basic".

Arithmetic is basic (after they teach you arithemetic then they teach you geometry and then trig and finally only THEN do they teach you calculus...only then if you're one of the anointed few).

So it doesnt make sense to say it the way you said it:"I cant do basic arithmetic, and I cant EVEN do calculus". You say "I cant do calculus, and I cant EVEN do basic arithmetic". Or "I cant do basic math, much less do calculus".

Know what I mean?

But most folks in your life cant do calculus either so. I sure cant. So no one in your life is going to expect you to be able to do it either. So calculus is not even an issue as a day to day life skill. Either socially or practically.

++++++++++++

But yes...basic math ( low level arithmetic) is rather necessary to survival. So if you're impaired in it then you're impaired in life to some degree.

Dont know what to tell you to get better at it.



BTDT
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23 Nov 2023, 11:05 am

Most folks who learn calculus in college can't do it a decade after they graduated.

But, the principles of how to attack problems may be useful in dealing with other challenges they face in life.

The confidence gained from passing a tough course may be helpful.



naturalplastic
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23 Nov 2023, 11:26 am

BTDT wrote:
Most folks who learn calculus in college can't do it a decade after they graduated.

But, the principles of how to attack problems may be useful in dealing with other challenges they face in life.

The confidence gained from passing a tough course may be helpful.


Here is the funny thing.

I work for an retail inventory company ...they send us into stores to physically count all of their merchandise using little hand held compter things on our belts.

In most stores you scan the products bar code. But is some stores you just read the price on the shelf and just count price-quantity.

But in a grocery store a lot of merchandise has prices like "three for eight dollars". I was gobsmacked that a certain coworker couldnt handle figuring out what the each price of "three for eight dollars" is (in a heartbeat I key in $2.67). Gobsmacked because the guy was trained as an engineer and presumably could do calculus and trig (which I cannot do). So apparently many folks who can do advanced mathematics cant do simple arithmetic in their heads.



Lost_dragon
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23 Nov 2023, 11:52 am

It can be difficult but it is possible to live with dyscalculia. I've found work arounds. For example, when working with columns on lined paper - it helps to have the paper horizontal / landscape rather than vertical / portrait. This makes the columns much clearer and I'm less likely to add the wrong sections together.

If you're like me and tend to line skip then it helps to block out the rest of the page so you can focus on what you're working on and you won't accidentally pick up information that's elsewhere on the page or on the next page. I have a reading ruler which also works as a bookmark. This is useful when I'm reading books. A piece of paper also works.

I'm terrible at arithmetic. However, I can understand some maths. Especially when it starts getting more wordy. I'm better at understanding language. I think the main thing is double checking that things make sense. When I write code, I write pseudo-code as comments to explain to myself what I'm doing and to check that there aren't any dodgy numbers going on. There are also code checkers online which can help with this a bit.

My issues were often dismissed because I was told that if I really had such difficulties then I'd also be bad at spelling but my spelling is average. Interestingly enough, my dyslexic father doesn't line skip. His spelling is terrible though. It's important to be understanding with yourself - I know it's easy to fall into self-deprecation but sometimes you need to take a step back and think 'OK, I struggle with this because of that, how can I adjust things?'


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BTDT
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23 Nov 2023, 1:42 pm

It can be very useful to draw pictures to solve math problems. Many people on the spectrum are visual thinkers.



Patrick22348
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23 Nov 2023, 2:24 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
It can be difficult but it is possible to live with dyscalculia. I've found work arounds. For example, when working with columns on lined paper - it helps to have the paper horizontal / landscape rather than vertical / portrait. This makes the columns much clearer and I'm less likely to add the wrong sections together.

If you're like me and tend to line skip then it helps to block out the rest of the page so you can focus on what you're working on and you won't accidentally pick up information that's elsewhere on the page or on the next page. I have a reading ruler which also works as a bookmark. This is useful when I'm reading books. A piece of paper also works.

I'm terrible at arithmetic. However, I can understand some maths. Especially when it starts getting more wordy. I'm better at understanding language. I think the main thing is double checking that things make sense. When I write code, I write pseudo-code as comments to explain to myself what I'm doing and to check that there aren't any dodgy numbers going on. There are also code checkers online which can help with this a bit.

My issues were often dismissed because I was told that if I really had such difficulties then I'd also be bad at spelling but my spelling is average. Interestingly enough, my dyslexic father doesn't line skip. His spelling is terrible though. It's important to be understanding with yourself - I know it's easy to fall into self-deprecation but sometimes you need to take a step back and think 'OK, I struggle with this because of that, how can I adjust things?'


I thought the logic in coding is something that is inherently math, or logic based.


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Lost_dragon
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23 Nov 2023, 2:59 pm

Patrick22348 wrote:
I thought the logic in coding is something that is inherently math, or logic based.


Don't get me wrong, I'm still very much a noob when it comes to code. I know basic html. Even that can be a little wonky. I'd like to give learning C# another go. My main issues are number switching (reading 42 as 24 for example) or line skipping (accidentally reading the wrong line and combining information together). Or 6 becomes 9 but I get that less often.

I struggle with arithmetic. Especially division with odd numbers (ugh). I can't visualise maths mentally. I also struggle to tell the time and sometimes get my directions mixed up.

Coding can be difficult. I still give it a go though. I'll find out if it's possible to learn.


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naturalplastic
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23 Nov 2023, 3:46 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
My issues were often dismissed because I was told that if I really had such difficulties then I'd also be bad at spelling but my spelling is average. Interestingly enough, my dyslexic father doesn't line skip. His spelling is terrible though. It's important to be understanding with yourself - I know it's easy to fall into self-deprecation but sometimes you need to take a step back and think 'OK, I struggle with this because of that, how can I adjust things?'


I dont know why folks would think that skill in spelling would correlate with skill in math. Math is logical. Spelling in English is as about as divorced from logic as you can get.



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23 Nov 2023, 4:37 pm

The OP's peers must be very unlike my peers, unless the dyscalculia is so bad that even adding up a few numbers is hard. My peers don't seem to have much mathematical prowess beyond that, and they don't expect it from me. I had some training in my youth, and got as far as the first rung of calculus - where you "differentiate" an expression such as making y=x squared into dy/dx = 2x, or something like that. It's to do with taking an equation and finding the equation for its slope or gradient. Integration is doing it the other way round, and I never really knew much about how to do that. But I only just grasped it at the time and as you can see, after decades of not using it, my understanding of it has faded. Still, I don't think I currently know anybody in real life who knows calculus either, though I do know some intelligent people.

I can do simple calculations but I even forget bits out of my multiplication tables these days, probably because calculators are so easy to access. I can do long multiplication and division if I focus carefully and write down the "carry" numbers (essential with my precarious short-term memory, though my teacher didn't like me writing them down). I still count on my fingers, e.g. when I have to enter the 1st, 3rd, and 9th character of my memorable information for logging into my bank, though I've been called babyish for doing it.

I have a love-hate relationship with mathematics. I enjoy using my number skills with computer programming, e.g. the time I wrote a machine-code "program" to do division (the language couldn't divide unless I wrote step-by-step instructions for division). Machine code is an entity close to my heart, because it's so "simple." I like reducing sophisticated stuff down to its simple fundamentals, and in that environment I understand what I'm doing and can work very quickly. But advanced mathematics makes me feel ill. They rarely explain it clearly.

Lots of people can't do mathematics well. According to a study, those who can't tend to refer to mathematics as "stupid." It's not the term I'd use on a good day, but I know where they're coming from. I feel the same way about it, ditto philosophy and theology, though I'm quite good at some of the bits I've studied. I don't like abstract learning especially if there's no obvious practical value to it beyond passing an exam.



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23 Nov 2023, 5:49 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
My issues were often dismissed because I was told that if I really had such difficulties then I'd also be bad at spelling but my spelling is average. Interestingly enough, my dyslexic father doesn't line skip. His spelling is terrible though. It's important to be understanding with yourself - I know it's easy to fall into self-deprecation but sometimes you need to take a step back and think 'OK, I struggle with this because of that, how can I adjust things?'


I dont know why folks would think that skill in spelling would correlate with skill in math. Math is logical. Spelling in English is as about as divorced from logic as you can get.


Ha, true. I'm still annoyed at the word 'yacht'. You would think it would be spelled 'yot' but no. :lol:

I think it's because there's been significantly more research and focus placed on dyslexia compared to other learning disabilities.

A former teacher of mine accidentally summed it up quite well - 'You don't seem like the type to have learning difficulties'. People have quite a narrow concept of how someone with learning difficulties can act and behave. When you don't fit into that neatly, then you're dismissed. Especially when you do well in other areas, then you're simply told that you are lazy and faking it.

I've looked into testing here but some places either don't test adults or if they do then they require you to have a dyslexia diagnosis before they'll give you the time of day. There's a lot of crossover with dyslexia and dyscalculia (which is sometimes known as numerical dyslexia) but I don't think I'd qualify for a general dyslexia diagnosis. I think it's possible to have one and not the other, but the testing centres near me seem to disagree. So I looked into visual processing disorder but eventually just decided to give up on the whole diagnosis process. I know the issues I have and I find work arounds when I can.

A friend of mine once went through my University's service to get a dyslexia diagnosis but they diagnosed her with ADHD instead and her response was 'Oh, OK, but I came here to find out if I'm dyslexic, am I not?' to which the University said that one diagnosis was enough for accommodations and that she didn't need a dyslexia test. I still find that an odd story - how does that even happen? :?


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naturalplastic
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23 Nov 2023, 6:23 pm

Actually yes...both math and reading involve keeping the order of a string of symbols right...digits or letters.

I know a guy with mental problems who is both innumerate and functionally illiterate. Though he can with effort read a newspaper.



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23 Nov 2023, 6:50 pm

Personally I mess up with words less, aside from the line skipping. That's why I use my reading ruler.

Although there is a brand called Ciao Baby and I often misread it as Chaos Baby and personally I think that's the better name. :lol:


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