Incels 30 times more likely to be autistic, study finds

Page 4 of 5 [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,812
Location: Hell

26 Feb 2024, 5:46 pm

Autistic male and incel - especially the misogynistic variety - aren’t synonymous.

Some people are abusive. I’ve been in an abusive relationship myself.

I’m not just talking about weird behavior.

I would agree that someone who appears creepy isn’t necessarily an abuser.


_________________
"Les grandes personnes ne comprennent jamias rien toutes seules, et c'est fatigant, pour les enfants, de toujours et toujours leur donner des explications." - Le Petit Prince


ChiefEspatier
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 29 Dec 2020
Posts: 88

26 Feb 2024, 5:53 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
We’re just too damn picky.


"too" picky for what exactly?

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Women need to start being more accommodating


Or you know, just acknowledge that you're picky. Like that's 80% of the conflict. Simply acknowledging it.

Not "my attractions can't be defined", "Women have concluded a substantial portion of the male population are not attractive".





TwilightPrincess wrote:
Women need to start being more accommodating to being sent dick pics, complaints about blue balls, sexual harassment, and the like.


See now you have to decide if you're trolling or not, because you've just put yourself into a situation for some rather abhorrent behavior.

The whole point of the research is showing that autistic men are 30 times more likely to be incels. So you're arguing quite literally that autistic men are 30 times more likely to bad people.



ChiefEspatier
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 29 Dec 2020
Posts: 88

26 Feb 2024, 5:56 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Defining insufferable pricks is kinda like defining hardcore pornography, you know it when you see it. I'm sorry the answer isn't as clear cut as looking at how many character points one assigned to being a prick on their character sheet.


You're trying to turn this into a joke it's not.

People actually do research this, again you're trying to argue against actual research.

Like you're working way way too hard at denying the suffering of others. It's a bit much when you have evidence a good proportion are on the spectrum.



TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,812
Location: Hell

26 Feb 2024, 6:02 pm

ChiefEspatier wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
We’re just too damn picky.


"too" picky for what exactly?

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Women need to start being more accommodating


Or you know, just acknowledge that you're picky. Like that's 80% of the conflict. Simply acknowledging it.

Not "my attractions can't be defined", "Women have concluded a substantial portion of the male population are not attractive".
I’m picky when it comes to certain things. There’s nothing wrong with that. I wouldn’t date someone who was on the right and/or religious for example.

Quote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Women need to start being more accommodating to being sent dick pics, complaints about blue balls, sexual harassment, and the like.


See now you have to decide if you're trolling or not, because you've just put yourself into a situation for some rather abhorrent behavior.

The whole point of the research is showing that autistic men are 30 times more likely to be incels. So you're arguing quite literally that autistic men are 30 times more likely to bad people.
Talking about behavior like that - behavior I’ve experienced in the past - does not justify experiencing more of it. If it happens, I know where the report button is :ninja:

Not all autistic males are incels. When I’m using that term, I’m referring to the group that engages in misogyny and is on specific sites, not just single people.


_________________
"Les grandes personnes ne comprennent jamias rien toutes seules, et c'est fatigant, pour les enfants, de toujours et toujours leur donner des explications." - Le Petit Prince


Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 26 Feb 2024, 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ChiefEspatier
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 29 Dec 2020
Posts: 88

26 Feb 2024, 6:03 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Autistic male and incel - especially the misogynistic variety - aren’t synonymous.


Take a breath and think THIRTY TIMES!! !! ! MORE LIKELY!! !! !

Not 3 times more likely to be autistic etc.

30.

The neurotypical man is 97% less likely to be part of the incel community.

Process that for a minute.

Are you suggesting that an autistic male is 30 times more likely to be a mysogynist?










TwilightPrincess wrote:
Some people are abusive. I’ve been in an abusive relationship myself.


If you been in a relationship with that person, by definition they aren't an incel.

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I’m not just talking about weird behavior.


One of the gripes of incels is exactly that horrible abusive men have no problem getting into relationships.

One of the traits of a malignant narcissist is relationships of continual abuse.

Some women aren't great at screening those men out.

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I would agree that someone who appears creepy isn’t necessarily an abuser.


Right, but you can agree that you'd avoid that person as much as possible?



TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,812
Location: Hell

26 Feb 2024, 6:11 pm

I suppose if the statistic is true autistics would be more likely to be misogynistic than the general population. People who are disenfranchised in some way often join abusive cults which cause them to engage in abusive behavior themselves. It doesn’t mean that I would assume all autistics are misogynists. There are a lot of good men on this site. Many incels on WP have been banned over the years for engaging in misogyny though.

An incel can find a partner sometimes. That doesn’t mean that the misogyny just goes away, so I still think of them as incels until the harmful beliefs change.

When it comes to creepy behavior, I’m cautious. I’m cautious anyway and always strive to be friends with or get to know someone before dating or being alone with them. Cost-benefit analysis stuff.

NTs engage in creepy behavior sometimes. It’s not necessarily an autistic thing although we do have atypical social skills.


_________________
"Les grandes personnes ne comprennent jamias rien toutes seules, et c'est fatigant, pour les enfants, de toujours et toujours leur donner des explications." - Le Petit Prince


Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 26 Feb 2024, 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,037
Location: Right over your left shoulder

26 Feb 2024, 6:14 pm

ChiefEspatier wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

Defining insufferable pricks is kinda like defining hardcore pornography, you know it when you see it. I'm sorry the answer isn't as clear cut as looking at how many character points one assigned to being a prick on their character sheet.


You're trying to turn this into a joke it's not.

People actually do research this, again you're trying to argue against actual research.

Like you're working way way too hard at denying the suffering of others. It's a bit much when you have evidence a good proportion are on the spectrum.


If they embrace the mindset that they're owed partners and that society has wronged them by not providing partners then I have little sympathy for whatever comes after embracing that mindset.

I don't owe my sympathies to people who actively choose self-defeating mindsets about how the world works. How is it other people's fault when someone chooses to adopt the incel ideology? If someone openly expresses incel sentiments I don't blame others for not wanting to deal with it, people get frustrated when dealing with constant defeatist and self-pitying remarks and behaviour.


_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
GOP Predators


ChiefEspatier
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 29 Dec 2020
Posts: 88

26 Feb 2024, 6:31 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I’m picky when it comes to certain things. There’s nothing wrong with that.


Right that's part of the mental trap of being an incel.

Women are innately more selective than men.

You can't fix that, it just is. Hence the bitterness they can't do anything about their circumstance.

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I wouldn’t date someone who was on the right and/or religious for example.


It's not a good example, because you can't tell if someone is on the right or is religious unless they tell you.

I've been with my wife for 10 years, and my wife still doesn't get my politics. I don't expect her too either.

My wife is very liberal it was obvious from the start, my only concern was her value for children, turns out she loves kids. Otherwise her politics has nothing to do with me. When I'm with her treehugging family I play along. Gigachad game 101.

This is like law 101 of marriage. Pick your battles.




TwilightPrincess wrote:
Talking about behavior like that - behavior I’ve experienced in the past - does not justify experiencing more of it. If it happens, I know where the report button is :ninja:


I never said that you should, you're actively misrepresenting what I said.

At no point did I claim women should be less selective. At no point will I. I'm not an incel.




TwilightPrincess wrote:
Not all autistic males are incels.


Being an incel isn't about being single. I was single for years, as I wasn't particularly interested in the girls around me. I met my wife and I knew by our 3rd or 4th date I'd marry her.



TwilightPrincess wrote:
When I’m using that term, I’m referring to the group that engages in misogyny and is on specific sites, not just single people.


"Specific sites" is not a qualifier. Most websites outright ban anything that sounds like incel talk. That's part of the oppression. Autistic males cannot even express their frustration, without receiving endless bullying and hostility.

Part of the oppression is blanket labeling people as incels.

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I’m referring to the group that engages in misogyny


And how do you determine the difference between a mysogynist and someone complaining that they are an incel?



TwilightPrincess wrote:
Not all autistic males are incels. When I’m using that term, I’m referring to the group that engages in misogyny and is on specific sites, not just single people.


Incel is very specifically about being rejected in totality. Being single has nothing to do with it.

You're overrating the distinction between someone that is bitter they are getting rejected and someone who gets rejected.



TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,812
Location: Hell

26 Feb 2024, 6:37 pm

ChiefEspatier wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
I wouldn’t date someone who was on the right and/or religious for example.


It's not a good example, because you can't tell if someone is on the right or is religious unless they tell you.
That’s where talking comes in handy.

What evidence are you basing the idea of “Women are innately more selective than men” off of? Or is this more anecdotal evidence that’s furthered by confirmation bias.

There’s information about what misogyny is here.

Research about Incels and misogyny here.
Quote:
This article combines computational approaches and social scientific theories to analyze the incels’ misogynistic language. We find that misogynistic language characterizes incel discussions. Specifically, 82.3% of threads and 81.2% of user’s post histories contain at least one misogynistic term. We find that incels used misogynistic terms 960,487 times and that they use misogynistic terms 2.4 times more frequently than neutral terms for women. We find no or weak overall associations between user’s posting frequency and participation in misogyny, suggesting that most participants on incels.is arrive, rather than become, misogynistic. Finally, we find that incels engage in specific forms of misogyny that advance both racist and misogynistic views of women.


_________________
"Les grandes personnes ne comprennent jamias rien toutes seules, et c'est fatigant, pour les enfants, de toujours et toujours leur donner des explications." - Le Petit Prince


ChiefEspatier
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 29 Dec 2020
Posts: 88

26 Feb 2024, 6:44 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
I don't owe my sympathies to people who actively choose self-defeating mindsets about how the world works.


No one is owed empathy. You can see a homeless person and have zero concern for their well being. Are you claiming homeless people don't get trapped in self defeating mindsets? I can assure you they do all the time.

But if you want to keep your good person status, yes you might want to have empathy for people who've been defeated by the realities of life.


funeralxempire wrote:
If they embrace the mindset that they're owed partners and that society has wronged them


what does "embrace the mindset" mean? no one is owed anything and yet they got a pretty awful lot in life.


funeralxempire wrote:
by not providing partners then I have little sympathy for whatever comes after embracing that mindset.


What about the before bit?



funeralxempire wrote:
How is it other people's fault when someone chooses to adopt the incel ideology?


How are you defining incel "ideology" the common answer is simply the statement of explaining why they'd be incels.

One of the key lessons of incel ideology is the how to not become an incel while you're young while you still have a chance of avoiding such fate.



funeralxempire wrote:
If someone openly expresses incel sentiments I don't blame others for not wanting to deal with it, people get frustrated when dealing with constant defeatist and self-pitying remarks and behaviour.


Problem is the alternative is to sit there like a jackass without complaining, because society refuses to acknowledge the involuntary part/problem.

We as a society are not even acknowledging the problem and by the time someone has become a full blown incel it's far too late their life has probably been ruined.



ChiefEspatier
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 29 Dec 2020
Posts: 88

26 Feb 2024, 7:03 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
That’s where talking comes in handy.


I'm talking to a person that is on the verge of admitting to not being attractive to a large cohort of men?



TwilightPrincess wrote:
What evidence are you basing the idea of “Women are innately more selective than men” off of? Or is this more anecdotal evidence that’s furthered by confirmation bias.


Pretty the science of attraction head to toe. Like I thought we were well past the part of disputing this.

FROM WHAT YOU POSTED

Sometimes misogyny is overt and obvious, but it can also be covert and insidious. Some signs of misogynistic behavior and attitudes include:

Expressing hatred for women

a solid definition

Catcalling or harassing women

a solid definition.


Favoring men at the expense of women

What does that even mean? Wanting to spend time with people of your own gender is misogyny? That's a standard?


Strong belief in rigid, traditional gender roles

We take on gender roles, anyone who acknowledges that can be considered misognyist which makes it a horrible definition.

No respect or regard for women's time and effort

Sounds like the Misandry in the reverse direction that applies to incels

Ignoring or speaking over women

Sounds like the Misandry in the reverse direction that applies to incels

Rejecting women's ideas

Sounds like the Misandry in the reverse direction that applies to incels

Stealing ideas from women but refusing to credit them


Sounds like the Misandry in the reverse direction that applies to incels


Frequently interrupting women when they are speaking


Sounds like the Misandry in the reverse direction that applies to incels

Blaming women for conflict and expecting women to maintain social harmony

Sounds like the Misandry in the reverse direction that applies to incels



Punishing women for calling out discrimination and sexism


Sounds like the Misandry in the reverse direction that applies to incels

Research about Incels and misogyny here.


Almost as if part of the intensity is that they feel Misandry is adversely affecting them. Which is absolutely part of the problem.




Quote:
This article combines computational approaches and social scientific theories to analyze the incels’ misogynistic language.

And that is joke science, "computational approaches" is a word frequency calculator. You could easily apply that approach to Wrongplanet and find out there's a non trivial overlap between autistic people and incels.




Quote:
We find that misogynistic language characterizes incel discussions. Specifically, 82.3% of threads and 81.2% of user’s post histories contain at least one misogynistic term.


Junk science it's completely circular. Terms the incel movement uses are being categorized as incel by definition.


Quote:
We find that incels used misogynistic terms 960,487 times and that they use misogynistic terms 2.4 times more frequently than neutral terms for women. We find no or weak overall associations between user’s posting frequency and participation in misogyny, suggesting that most participants on incels.is arrive, rather than become, misogynistic. Finally, we find that incels engage in specific forms of misogyny that advance both racist and misogynistic views of women.


The science is clear, a word counter is not a rigorous method for determining misogyny. Because by definition of the methodology, they aren't able to process context of what is being said.

I could say "I don't hate women" and because "hate Women" is there it gets counted as misogyny.

That's fringe academic fraud.



TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,812
Location: Hell

26 Feb 2024, 7:07 pm

ChiefEspatier wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
That’s where talking comes in handy.


I'm talking to a person that is on the verge of admitting to not being attractive to a large cohort of men?

What do you mean?

Apart from that, it’s laughable to equate valid criticism of misogynistic incels/incel ideology with misandry.


_________________
"Les grandes personnes ne comprennent jamias rien toutes seules, et c'est fatigant, pour les enfants, de toujours et toujours leur donner des explications." - Le Petit Prince


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,037
Location: Right over your left shoulder

26 Feb 2024, 7:45 pm

ChiefEspatier wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I don't owe my sympathies to people who actively choose self-defeating mindsets about how the world works.


No one is owed empathy. You can see a homeless person and have zero concern for their well being. Are you claiming homeless people don't get trapped in self defeating mindsets? I can assure you they do all the time.

But if you want to keep your good person status, yes you might want to have empathy for people who've been defeated by the realities of life.


In this case it seems more likely that they were defeated by their choice to associate with the incel community. Imagine if there was a friendless community that was entirely fixated on the idea that some people will never be able to make friends because (reasons that blame popular people go here). Odds are admitting you were part of that community would make it harder to find friends because of what that community is known to stand for.

That's literally what incels do to themselves. They want to be part of the he-man woman hater's club, but they don't want the consequences that result from that association.


ChiefEspatier wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
If they embrace the mindset that they're owed partners and that society has wronged them


what does "embrace the mindset" mean? no one is owed anything and yet they got a pretty awful lot in life.


I'm not sure what part you failed to understand, it's a very straightforward phrase. Try substituting buy into the idea.

ChiefEspatier wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
by not providing partners then I have little sympathy for whatever comes after embracing that mindset.


What about the before bit?


Yes, if one is struggling I have a degree of sympathy given that I've often struggled in that regard as well. The moment they start blaming others for their own failings and shortcomings is when I have no further sympathy for them.

ChiefEspatier wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
How is it other people's fault when someone chooses to adopt the incel ideology?


How are you defining incel "ideology" the common answer is simply the statement of explaining why they'd be incels.

One of the key lessons of incel ideology is the how to not become an incel while you're young while you still have a chance of avoiding such fate.


Incel ideology, aka 'the black pill'. The idea that only Chad Thundercock is getting some and that all women just want to have casual sex with Chad instead of settling for dating Whiny McIncel.


ChiefEspatier wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
If someone openly expresses incel sentiments I don't blame others for not wanting to deal with it, people get frustrated when dealing with constant defeatist and self-pitying remarks and behaviour.


Problem is the alternative is to sit there like a jackass without complaining, because society refuses to acknowledge the involuntary part/problem.

We as a society are not even acknowledging the problem and by the time someone has become a full blown incel it's far too late their life has probably been ruined.


The real alternative is to make improvements to one's self and life to make one's self a more attractive partner, rather than sitting around covered in Cheetos dust jerking off to the most misogynist porn one can find and whining to all the other losers that no one will settle for a loser and it's all everyone else's fault. The guy who rants FEMINISTS AND PRONOUNS RUINED WOMEN THAT'S WHY I CAN'T GET A DATE!! while hoping everyone will ignore that he smells worse than a hockey bag, is addicted to opioids and rape porn and has never learned to how to hold an actual conversation with a woman.


_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
GOP Predators


Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,789
Location: England

26 Feb 2024, 7:49 pm

I'm rather aptly a tad lost with this thread.

So, we're talking male loneliness leading to people seeking online communities. Everyone wants a solution but are consulting those that have not found one and are in the same miserable boat.

And there's a conversation going on about the lack of acknowledgement of male loneliness. Alright. What's leading to this trend of loneliness? Lack of communal spaces?

Would early intervention of some kind help and what might that look like? Is it possible?

Then there's a conversation expanding into women being selective when choosing men and only finding a small pool attractive. I've heard this talking point before. As a lesbian I don't feel qualified to talk about it really. Moreso I'm just trying to wrap my head around the discussion itself. I should go to sleep. The tiredness is not helping. However, if this thread still exists later then I shall check on it.


_________________
Support human artists! Do not let the craft die.

Almost 25. Near the spectrum but not on it.


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,037
Location: Right over your left shoulder

26 Feb 2024, 7:56 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
However, if this thread still exists later then I shall check on it.


Please do, you've always got interesting insights to bring to these discussions. :nerdy:


_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
GOP Predators


Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,846
Location: wales

27 Feb 2024, 3:57 am

Well, as to the reasons for being incel, it's more than likely social clumsiness but the definition of an incel isn't all that clear.

It's safe to say though, man or woman, if someone is a virgin by 30 then there's a very strong chance that they're making people feel uncomfortable or they're unapproachable to potential partners. By a certain age if someone is lacking the long term stable relationship or alternatively, high body count then something might be wrong.