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Fenn
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09 Mar 2024, 3:41 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
https://iamcadence.com/2018/03/26/what-autism-is-and-what-it-is-not/

“[ . . . ]
Autism is not ‘traits of behaviour’. Autism is not behaviour at all – behaviour and individual traits are the ‘observable’ responses to not only how an individual’s Autistic neurology interprets and processes stimuli and information, but also consequent of the Autistic persons individual personality, environment, cognitive ability and self awareness, and coping skills.

Autism is not an intellectual disability. Intelligence forms no part of the diagnostic criteria of Autism.
[ . . . ]”



If you have met one Autistic person, you have met one Autistic person.

The above quote mixes activitism language with science/medical/psychology language.

Autism as defined in the U.S.A. is defined as behavior in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), which is the “diagnostic criteria” mentioned in the very next bullet point as an authoritative source to refute the idea of Autism being an “intellectual disability”.
So the well-meaning web page isn’t even self-consistent.

The reality is more complex than activism word salad.

To a psychologist observable behavior is the only thing there is.
In the DSM observable behavior is exactly what is talked about.

To a neuropsychologist Autism neurological features (correlated to individuals who meet the criteria, by behavior, of the DSM).
These are statistically significant observations that are more true more often for most people on the Autism spectrum. EEG studies, MRI studies, fMRI studies show quantitative (countable with numbers) differences in brain volume, and neurological activity. And, sad but true, some of these numbers are lower than the average for the population. Some are higher. In some studies there are age related differences showing abnormal development.

All human beings are worthy and worthwhile. Every human is worth “1 human being”. In that way we are all equal. Unfortunately there are some who are taller and some who are shorter. Some who are faster and some who are slower.
While we are all equal in human worth, by some measures we are genuinely different.


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ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(diagnosed)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie


BillyTree
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09 Mar 2024, 4:03 pm

Fenn wrote:

Autism as defined in the U.S.A. is defined as behavior in the DSM


DSM and it's definition of the diagnosis called "autism" is the map.Or put in an other way a description of what is observable to an outsider. It's not the reality. You can change the definition and the diagnose criteria for autism without changing anyones neurology.


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ToughDiamond
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09 Mar 2024, 5:36 pm

Fenn wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
https://iamcadence.com/2018/03/26/what-autism-is-and-what-it-is-not/

“[ . . . ]
Autism is not ‘traits of behaviour’. Autism is not behaviour at all – behaviour and individual traits are the ‘observable’ responses to not only how an individual’s Autistic neurology interprets and processes stimuli and information, but also consequent of the Autistic persons individual personality, environment, cognitive ability and self awareness, and coping skills.

Autism is not an intellectual disability. Intelligence forms no part of the diagnostic criteria of Autism.
[ . . . ]”



If you have met one Autistic person, you have met one Autistic person.

The above quote mixes activitism language with science/medical/psychology language.

Autism as defined in the U.S.A. is defined as behavior in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), which is the “diagnostic criteria” mentioned in the very next bullet point as an authoritative source to refute the idea of Autism being an “intellectual disability”.
So the well-meaning web page isn’t even self-consistent.

The reality is more complex than activism word salad.

To a psychologist observable behavior is the only thing there is.
In the DSM observable behavior is exactly what is talked about.

To a neuropsychologist Autism neurological features (correlated to individuals who meet the criteria, by behavior, of the DSM).
These are statistically significant observations that are more true more often for most people on the Autism spectrum. EEG studies, MRI studies, fMRI studies show quantitative (countable with numbers) differences in brain volume, and neurological activity. And, sad but true, some of these numbers are lower than the average for the population. Some are higher. In some studies there are age related differences showing abnormal development.

All human beings are worthy and worthwhile. Every human is worth “1 human being”. In that way we are all equal. Unfortunately there are some who are taller and some who are shorter. Some who are faster and some who are slower.
While we are all equal in human worth, by some measures we are genuinely different.

Indeed. I picked the page because it explains that ASD and personality are different things, and I agree with it in that respect.



Fenn
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10 Mar 2024, 12:52 pm

“lower Extraversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, and higher Neuroticism, in ASD versus TD individuals. De Pauw et al. also found lower levels of Openness in ASD relative to TD individuals, whereas Kanai et al. found no group differences.”

Source:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4122539/

See also:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Fiv ... ity_traits


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ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(diagnosed)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie


ToughDiamond
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10 Mar 2024, 6:30 pm

Fenn wrote:
“lower Extraversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, and higher Neuroticism, in ASD versus TD individuals. De Pauw et al. also found lower levels of Openness in ASD relative to TD individuals, whereas Kanai et al. found no group differences.”

Source:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4122539/

See also:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Fiv ... ity_traits

Don't know how strong those correlations are supposed to be, but I for one am probably more conscientious and agreeable than the average person. If oversharing counts as openness, I've done quite a bit of that, and I've even been remarkably extravert in the right company. "Neuroticism" would be hard to estimate. I'm certainly not without some of its components - anxiety being the main one - but men perhaps tend to be loathe to admit they have anxiety, so maybe I'm just more open about it. And I've only ever sought medical help for it once, and even then the root cause was a rather stressful environment rather than my being particularly prone to anxiety over very little.