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Tim_Tex
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04 Mar 2024, 11:10 am

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/supreme-court-opinion-trump-ballot-03-04-24/index.html


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goldfish21
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04 Mar 2024, 12:34 pm

It seems your country has been hijacked by a scotus that no longer recognizes the US Constitution as the document that governs your country & guides the courts. It pretty clearly says if you engage in insurrection against the constitution that you're ineligible to hold office. RIP USA.


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Tim_Tex
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04 Mar 2024, 1:19 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
It seems your country has been hijacked by a scotus that no longer recognizes the US Constitution as the document that governs your country & guides the courts. It pretty clearly says if you engage in insurrection against the constitution that you're ineligible to hold office. RIP USA.


Even the liberal justices ruled in his favor. I would have thought at least Sotomayor would dissent.

The gist is that if blue or bluish-purple states (which Colorado is) could remove Trump from their ballots, then red and reddish-purple states (think Texas or Florida) could try to remove Biden from theirs. Basically a slippery-slope case.


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goldfish21
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04 Mar 2024, 2:13 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It seems your country has been hijacked by a scotus that no longer recognizes the US Constitution as the document that governs your country & guides the courts. It pretty clearly says if you engage in insurrection against the constitution that you're ineligible to hold office. RIP USA.


Even the liberal justices ruled in his favor. I would have thought at least Sotomayor would dissent.

The gist is that if blue or bluish-purple states (which Colorado is) could remove Trump from their ballots, then red and reddish-purple states (think Texas or Florida) could try to remove Biden from theirs. Basically a slippery-slope case.

If Biden engaged in insurrection, too, disqualify him. That would be fine. That’s the whole point of the amendment.


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DW_a_mom
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06 Mar 2024, 2:25 am

goldfish21 wrote:
It seems your country has been hijacked by a scotus that no longer recognizes the US Constitution as the document that governs your country & guides the courts. It pretty clearly says if you engage in insurrection against the constitution that you're ineligible to hold office. RIP USA.


The decision was that any such determination has to be made at the FEDERAL, not the state level, or there would be chaos. All nine justices agreed on that point.

5 justices went further, stating congress had to write laws on the process, while the separate concurrences disagreed with that point, and saw no reason for it to be in the decision.

SCOTUS did not address at all the lower court determination that Trump had engaged in insurrection so, technically, that determination stands, interestingly enough.


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06 Mar 2024, 3:19 am

The MAGA infection has spread to the Supreme Court. Their decisions are not based on law but on supporting a political party. They can be corrupt (Thomas) as they wish. SCOTUS used to be held in high esteem; they are now a joke.



Tim_Tex
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06 Mar 2024, 4:15 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It seems your country has been hijacked by a scotus that no longer recognizes the US Constitution as the document that governs your country & guides the courts. It pretty clearly says if you engage in insurrection against the constitution that you're ineligible to hold office. RIP USA.


The decision was that any such determination has to be made at the FEDERAL, not the state level, or there would be chaos. All nine justices agreed on that point.

5 justices went further, stating congress had to write laws on the process, while the separate concurrences disagreed with that point, and saw no reason for it to be in the decision.

SCOTUS did not address at all the lower court determination that Trump had engaged in insurrection so, technically, that determination stands, interestingly enough.


But does SCOTUS consider 1/6 to have been an insurrection?


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goldfish21
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06 Mar 2024, 4:46 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It seems your country has been hijacked by a scotus that no longer recognizes the US Constitution as the document that governs your country & guides the courts. It pretty clearly says if you engage in insurrection against the constitution that you're ineligible to hold office. RIP USA.


The decision was that any such determination has to be made at the FEDERAL, not the state level, or there would be chaos. All nine justices agreed on that point.

5 justices went further, stating congress had to write laws on the process, while the separate concurrences disagreed with that point, and saw no reason for it to be in the decision.

SCOTUS did not address at all the lower court determination that Trump had engaged in insurrection so, technically, that determination stands, interestingly enough.


But does SCOTUS consider 1/6 to have been an insurrection?

I don’t think they’ve ruled on that yet but I bet they get asked during/after the J6 trial.

IIRC a judge in New Mexico was the first to rule that trump engaged in insurrection on J6.


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ezbzbfcg2
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06 Mar 2024, 7:14 am

Has anyone read the Section 3 provision of the 14th Amendment?

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

This is interesting for several reasons. It seems to vest the power in Congress to overturn a person's "insurrectionist status" by vote.

If someone wanted to run for STATE office, and the STATE barred them for being an insurrectionist, then that person would still need Federal Congress to possibly overturn it? Would the US Congress even have a vote on a state candidate's "insurrection status" ?

It doesn't clarify how a person is determined to be an insurrectionist. Presumably, they'd have to have been found guilty of such in a court of law. Though it doesn't really clarify either way. Still, it says insurrectionist status can be overturned, but that must be by a 2/3 vote by both houses of Congress, implying these things aren't just arbitrary decisions.

And who are the ineligible insurrectionists to run for office at the STATE or FEDERAL level? According to this, it's people who previously took oaths to uphold the US Constitution in the following capacities:

--Members of US Congress
--Officers of the United States
--State legislators
--State executive or judicial officers

So, was Trump an "officer" of the United States? We know he was never a congressman, or a state legislator, and he was never a state officer.

The debate centers around the belief, and prior cases, suggesting a Federal Officer is someone appointed to a position (whether it be a military position like an army general, or a civilian position, like head of the Environmental Protection Agency). As an elected Federal official, Trump doesn't appear to be barred from running for Federal office according to this.

Also, at the time this was written, there was no question regarding the insurrection status of the Confederate politicians who had openly withdrawn allegiance to the United States. And, I'd have to imagine, this clause was almost impossible to enforce at the state level, as during reconstruction, many former Confederates continued to hold state offices.



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06 Mar 2024, 8:31 am

Distinctly feels like ,we the USA is in real Trouble ..a very recent Caucus attended by a close friend , told of the. Republican Caucus of the midwest , had not provided any direct information to any of the attendees , Nor documentation.for what they stand for this year ..! 8O .
But unswervingly support , almost unanaminously ....have chosen Trump as their candidate ..This is very discoursging to me , at this point . Because Bidens not addressed certain world actions that our government is contributing to. Regarding genocide type activities based on religious preference. It appears , Have gotten the general impression that Bidens popularity has suffered, and is also very old .And Harris , may or maynot be a good change ?
So , the magas are still out there...And after realizing these things....about the lack of choices appearing to be on our next presidential ballor .This is scarey time .. and maybe the future... :skull:


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goldfish21
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06 Mar 2024, 10:55 am

Jakki wrote:
Distinctly feels like ,we the USA is in real Trouble ..a very recent Caucus attended by a close friend , told of the. Republican Caucus of the midwest , had not provided any direct information to any of the attendees , Nor documentation.for what they stand for this year ..! 8O .
But unswervingly support , almost unanaminously ....have chosen Trump as their candidate ..This is very discoursging to me , at this point . Because Bidens not addressed certain world actions that our government is contributing to. Regarding genocide type activities based on religious preference. It appears , Have gotten the general impression that Bidens popularity has suffered, and is also very old .And Harris , may or maynot be a good change ?
So , the magas are still out there...And after realizing these things....about the lack of choices appearing to be on our next presidential ballor .This is scarey time .. and maybe the future... :skull:

And this is why every sane commentator reminds people that non/anti trump voters need to Vote and vote Biden in order to prevent this from possibly becoming reality... a reality that would be pretty awful all around. Could you imagine the international reaction? Americans would be viewed as no longer trustworthy and entire global power dynamics would shift if voters put some crazy old man that blabs top secret info all over the place and wants to get rid of post WW2 alliances and all sorts of other things.. may as well just hand the reigns to China at that point.


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Jakki
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06 Mar 2024, 2:18 pm

Stop this bus ( ie.election of trump) i wanna get off this bus ! 8O


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