False Dx: Up to 70% of dx'd may not actually be autistic?

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naturalplastic
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JamesW
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18 Apr 2024, 1:55 am

funeralxempire wrote:
So, if I understand correctly "Dr." David Rowland isn't a real doctor and his claims shouldn't be considered without a high degree of skepticism?


Absolutely.

And frankly I'm disappointed that there is a conversation going on in this thread at all. The classic way to enable bogus research is by unconsciously validating it.

The argument that autism may or may not be overdiagnosed is a perfectly reasonable one, and has been posed previously by credible professionals. Discussing it in this thread ends up twisting the argument into 'David Rowland is wrong, but he had some good ideas'. This is exactly what he would want.

I'd be far more comfortable if we had a new thread which didn't have Rowland at the top of it, entitled e.g. 'Is Autism Overdiagnosed?', and carried on in there. But I'm not in charge here.



nca14
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20 Apr 2024, 2:43 am

I have obsession about the fear that I have not a pervasive developmental disorder or autism despite being diagnosed with Asperger syndrome when I was about 17 years old. PDD diagnosis benefitted me a lot! Especially in the area of financial benefits. I have social pension, care allowance, pretty serious ruling of disability, almost five years of free public transport in my nearby urban agglomeration. I do not have a job, I live in medium-sized village with no elementary school or church in it. I am blatantly mentally disordered, profoundly "weird" and obviously disabled due to a PDD and other mental health problems.

But I think that many ASD cases are not etiologically related to "CLASSIC" autism (Kanner's syndrome). People with PDD (especially Asperger's syndrome from ICD-10 or DSM-IV) or ASD diagnosis who have high IQ and no functional language impairment, but who are pretty disabled, handicapped in (especially adult) life and generally "odd" even in comparison to many "normal" ASDers with comparable IQs and levels of functional language IMO have an additional schizophrenia spectrum disorder (probably mostly schizotypal or schizoid) in addition to being autistic and being both autistic and having "schizo" makes them so severely impaired. I have diagnoses of schizotypal disorder and OCD in addition to PDD since 2015, since before I first applied for ruling of disability and social pension. I think that people like me have specific developmental health condition which can be named "schizoautism" which is different from classic ASD, from ADHD or NVLD, but can be comorbid with them. Not all individuals with PDD and (or) ASD who have normal or high IQ and no to only slight functional language impairment are on schizophrenia spectrum, those who are not rather would be better functioning in areas like earning money and relationships. I think that schizoautism is clearly worse than "normal" ASD in people with comparable IQs and functional language levels. Schizoautism is a childhood-onset severe mental illness, which must not be considered as mere difference or mere specific coginitive style. "Asperger's" mentioned in this article, which is on par with total lack of eyesight or having both legs removed in terms of severity of the disability caused by the condition, is IMO schizoautism and not "standard" ASD without intellectual impairment and with mild to no functional language impairment.



MatchboxVagabond
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20 Apr 2024, 10:40 am

JamesW wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So, if I understand correctly "Dr." David Rowland isn't a real doctor and his claims shouldn't be considered without a high degree of skepticism?


Absolutely.

And frankly I'm disappointed that there is a conversation going on in this thread at all. The classic way to enable bogus research is by unconsciously validating it.

The argument that autism may or may not be overdiagnosed is a perfectly reasonable one, and has been posed previously by credible professionals. Discussing it in this thread ends up twisting the argument into 'David Rowland is wrong, but he had some good ideas'. This is exactly what he would want.

I'd be far more comfortable if we had a new thread which didn't have Rowland at the top of it, entitled e.g. 'Is Autism Overdiagnosed?', and carried on in there. But I'm not in charge here.

There definitely is some over diagnosis, but I'm not sure what they thought was going to happen when they eliminated all those diagnoses and failed to Ensure that everybody that had a related condition and needed support had a diagnosis available. There's a long history of doctors stretching diagnoses in order to get patients treatment when there are inadequate options. They could just add easily left well enough alone until more research came in to dictate what the correct move was. They didn't even bother coming up with a diagnosis for those that don't show symptoms early enough to be considered developmental, but too early to be a personality disorder and there isn't really an option for autism without stimming even though there is one for autism without sensory differences.



MatchboxVagabond
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20 Apr 2024, 10:46 am

nca14 wrote:
I have obsession about the fear that I have not a pervasive developmental disorder or autism despite being diagnosed with Asperger syndrome when I was about 17 years old. PDD diagnosis benefitted me a lot! Especially in the area of financial benefits. I have social pension, care allowance, pretty serious ruling of disability, almost five years of free public transport in my nearby urban agglomeration. I do not have a job, I live in medium-sized village with no elementary school or church in it. I am blatantly mentally disordered, profoundly "weird" and obviously disabled due to a PDD and other mental health problems.

But I think that many ASD cases are not etiologically related to "CLASSIC" autism (Kanner's syndrome). People with PDD (especially Asperger's syndrome from ICD-10 or DSM-IV) or ASD diagnosis who have high IQ and no functional language impairment, but who are pretty disabled, handicapped in (especially adult) life and generally "odd" even in comparison to many "normal" ASDers with comparable IQs and levels of functional language IMO have an additional schizophrenia spectrum disorder (probably mostly schizotypal or schizoid) in addition to being autistic and being both autistic and having "schizo" makes them so severely impaired. I have diagnoses of schizotypal disorder and OCD in addition to PDD since 2015, since before I first applied for ruling of disability and social pension. I think that people like me have specific developmental health condition which can be named "schizoautism" which is different from classic ASD, from ADHD or NVLD, but can be comorbid with them. Not all individuals with PDD and (or) ASD who have normal or high IQ and no to only slight functional language impairment are on schizophrenia spectrum, those who are not rather would be better functioning in areas like earning money and relationships. I think that schizoautism is clearly worse than "normal" ASD in people with comparable IQs and functional language levels. Schizoautism is a childhood-onset severe mental illness, which must not be considered as mere difference or mere specific coginitive style. "Asperger's" mentioned in this article, which is on par with total lack of eyesight or having both legs removed in terms of severity of the disability caused by the condition, is IMO schizoautism and not "standard" ASD without intellectual impairment and with mild to no functional language impairment.

The literal only reason I didn't get an AS diagnosis when I was evaluated under the DSM IV was that I had already received most of the schizo diagnoses and there wasn't any awareness that the criteria changes would be so severe as to make it virtually impossible to get a proper diagnosis later. With a diagnosis I wouldn't have gotten much, but I would have had to get the schizo diagnoses ruled out, then have another neuropsych work up and the tools for assessing adults didn't even exist. Most of the stuff was clearly intended for children or those with significant ID.



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20 Apr 2024, 10:49 am

JamesW wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So, if I understand correctly "Dr." David Rowland isn't a real doctor and his claims shouldn't be considered without a high degree of skepticism?


Absolutely.

And frankly I'm disappointed that there is a conversation going on in this thread at all. The classic way to enable bogus research is by unconsciously validating it.

The argument that autism may or may not be overdiagnosed is a perfectly reasonable one, and has been posed previously by credible professionals. Discussing it in this thread ends up twisting the argument into 'David Rowland is wrong, but he had some good ideas'. This is exactly what he would want.

I'd be far more comfortable if we had a new thread which didn't have Rowland at the top of it, entitled e.g. 'Is Autism Overdiagnosed?', and carried on in there. But I'm not in charge here.





I don't think anyone in this thread has enabled or validated any of his claims. We've all said that it's very rare and unlikely regardless of the person's gender. It might be a good idea to keep his name on the thread so anyone who searches for our opinion of his bogus research will see exactly what we think of it.


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20 Apr 2024, 11:05 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
JamesW wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So, if I understand correctly "Dr." David Rowland isn't a real doctor and his claims shouldn't be considered without a high degree of skepticism?


Absolutely.

And frankly I'm disappointed that there is a conversation going on in this thread at all. The classic way to enable bogus research is by unconsciously validating it.

The argument that autism may or may not be overdiagnosed is a perfectly reasonable one, and has been posed previously by credible professionals. Discussing it in this thread ends up twisting the argument into 'David Rowland is wrong, but he had some good ideas'. This is exactly what he would want.

I'd be far more comfortable if we had a new thread which didn't have Rowland at the top of it, entitled e.g. 'Is Autism Overdiagnosed?', and carried on in there. But I'm not in charge here.





I don't think anyone in this thread has enabled or validated any of his claims. We've all said that it's very rare and unlikely regardless of the person's gender. It might be a good idea to keep his name on the thread so anyone who searches for our opinion of his bogus research will see exactly what we think of it.

It's a tough call, ignoring things rarely works. OTOH engaging with it can give the appearance of credibility as well.



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21 Apr 2024, 8:23 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
Personally I think that the increase in diagnosis frequency, is due to better screening methods and a broadening of who might be considered autistic, now, versus say, a couple of decades ago and beyond.


That’s what I think also. Also even until the 80s and probably also 90s was a huge stigma when it came to autism, also because of the “refrigerator mother theory”. I’m born 1984, my father was a psychotherapist and my mom a nurse. I didn’t start speaking until I was about 5 and a half years old, I couldn’t leave the house until I finished what I did prior and I was extremely noise sensitive. Even though my parents described me as “a bit autistic” or “something autistic is going on” and I received training that was also common back then for autistics, I still didn’t receive an autism diagnosis until much later in life. Also because of the huge stigma involved. I received the diagnosis of “severe auditory processing disorder”, some motor issues and developmental delay instead. Autism was a label back then you tried to avoid if possible. But this isn’t the case anymore, also the spectrum broadened.


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21 Apr 2024, 8:49 am

Raziel wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Personally I think that the increase in diagnosis frequency, is due to better screening methods and a broadening of who might be considered autistic, now, versus say, a couple of decades ago and beyond.


That’s what I think also. Also even until the 80s and probably also 90s was a huge stigma when it came to autism, also because of the “refrigerator mother theory”. I’m born 1984, my father was a psychotherapist and my mom a nurse. I didn’t start speaking until I was about 5 and a half years old, I couldn’t leave the house until I finished what I did prior and I was extremely noise sensitive. Even though my parents described me as “a bit autistic” or “something autistic is going on” and I received training that was also common back then for autistics, I still didn’t receive an autism diagnosis until much later in life. Also because of the huge stigma involved. I received the diagnosis of “severe auditory processing disorder”, some motor issues and developmental delay instead. Autism was a label back then you tried to avoid if possible. But this isn’t the case anymore, also the spectrum broadened.


Thank you for sharing your background/story.

I agree that autism used to have a greater stigma attached to it and that people used to try more to avoid a diagnosis, many years ago, versus today.



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21 Apr 2024, 6:50 pm

Raziel wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Personally I think that the increase in diagnosis frequency, is due to better screening methods and a broadening of who might be considered autistic, now, versus say, a couple of decades ago and beyond.


That’s what I think also. Also even until the 80s and probably also 90s was a huge stigma when it came to autism, also because of the “refrigerator mother theory”. I’m born 1984, my father was a psychotherapist and my mom a nurse. I didn’t start speaking until I was about 5 and a half years old, I couldn’t leave the house until I finished what I did prior and I was extremely noise sensitive. Even though my parents described me as “a bit autistic” or “something autistic is going on” and I received training that was also common back then for autistics, I still didn’t receive an autism diagnosis until much later in life. Also because of the huge stigma involved. I received the diagnosis of “severe auditory processing disorder”, some motor issues and developmental delay instead. Autism was a label back then you tried to avoid if possible. But this isn’t the case anymore, also the spectrum broadened.

I wonder how many of the "refrigerator moms" were undiagnosed schizoid or autistic women.



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21 Apr 2024, 7:04 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:
Raziel wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Personally I think that the increase in diagnosis frequency, is due to better screening methods and a broadening of who might be considered autistic, now, versus say, a couple of decades ago and beyond.


That’s what I think also. Also even until the 80s and probably also 90s was a huge stigma when it came to autism, also because of the “refrigerator mother theory”. I’m born 1984, my father was a psychotherapist and my mom a nurse. I didn’t start speaking until I was about 5 and a half years old, I couldn’t leave the house until I finished what I did prior and I was extremely noise sensitive. Even though my parents described me as “a bit autistic” or “something autistic is going on” and I received training that was also common back then for autistics, I still didn’t receive an autism diagnosis until much later in life. Also because of the huge stigma involved. I received the diagnosis of “severe auditory processing disorder”, some motor issues and developmental delay instead. Autism was a label back then you tried to avoid if possible. But this isn’t the case anymore, also the spectrum broadened.

I wonder how many of the "refrigerator moms" were undiagnosed schizoid or autistic women.

I think a lot since there is a heavy genetic component to autism.


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