False Dx: Up to 70% of dx'd may not actually be autistic?

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IsabellaLinton
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16 Apr 2024, 5:58 pm

I didn't read it that way. I thought she meant some men might seem autistic because of social awkwardness, nerdiness, loneliness, or trouble with emotional expression etc., but they might actually be faking it (or their parents bought a weak diagnosis). I thought she meant it wasn't fair to women if their partners were kind of using it as an excuse instead of trying to improve their skills. My flip-side was if men can do that, anyone can.

I wouldn't have chosen the word sociopath myself, but I used it because she did.


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IsabellaLinton
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16 Apr 2024, 6:10 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I never doubt anyone’s diagnosis unless there are exceptional circumstances involved which solely happened once or twice to me.



I didn't mean to imply that I watch YT videos and doubt people, but like you said people fake all sorts of things. On YT there are people faking everything from cancer to childbirth and tragedies, just so they can get clicks and likes for an income. It stands to reason there could be fakers or mistaken people online trying to speak for the autistic community. It wouldn't matter if they were men or women.

I don't know anyone in my real life or online life who turned out to be a fake, except for a couple of people who admitted themselves that they weren't autistic despite putting up a good front and likely confusing a lot of people.


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ASPartOfMe
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16 Apr 2024, 6:17 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:

ASPartOfMe has pointed out that there are reportedly quite a few people who want to jump on the bandwagon of being autistic / neurodiverse and that in some cases, that hurts the autistic population's credibility.

I still don't think it's anywhere 70% like the OP suggests. I'd struggle to believe even 7%, but I'm in no place to judge.

"Reportedly" is the operative word. IMHO the credibility problem is not the result of an epidemic of overdiagnoses and autism wannabees but the perception of an epidemic of overdiagnoses and autism wannabees.

I do agree that because at this time autism is defined by observable and self-reported traits these are opinions.


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16 Apr 2024, 6:20 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I didn't read it that way. I thought she meant some men might seem autistic because of social awkwardness, nerdiness, loneliness, or trouble with emotional expression etc., but they might actually be faking it (or their parents bought a weak diagnosis). I thought she meant it wasn't fair to women if their partners were kind of using it as an excuse instead of trying to improve their skills. My flip-side was if men can do that, anyone can.

I wouldn't have chosen the word sociopath myself, but I used it because she did.
“Malignant sociopath” seems a bit strong for that sort of behavior. :lol:

Perhaps a lot of people with those specific characteristics would fall into the BAP camp if their traits weren’t severe enough for an actual diagnosis.
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that I watch YT videos and doubt people, but like you said people fake all sorts of things. On YT there are people faking everything from cancer to childbirth and tragedies, just so they can get clicks and likes for an income. It stands to reason there could be fakers or mistaken people online trying to speak for the autistic community.
I don’t really worry about the possibility that people are faking it since it’s typically impossible to know if they are. Also, there’s nothing we can do about it anyway. Sometimes it’s almost like people want to be gatekeepers in comments, posts, and whatever else which causes a lot more problems than the potentially faked diagnoses themselves.

Many people with appropriately diagnosed autism wouldn’t be great spokespeople for the autistic community either.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 16 Apr 2024, 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IsabellaLinton
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16 Apr 2024, 6:30 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:

ASPartOfMe has pointed out that there are reportedly quite a few people who want to jump on the bandwagon of being autistic / neurodiverse and that in some cases, that hurts the autistic population's credibility.

I still don't think it's anywhere 70% like the OP suggests. I'd struggle to believe even 7%, but I'm in no place to judge.

"Reportedly" is the operative word. IMHO the credibility problem is not the result of an epidemic of overdiagnoses and autism wannabees but the perception of an epidemic of overdiagnoses and autism wannabees.

I do agree that because at this time autism is defined by observable and self-reported traits these are opinions.



Thanks for clarifying. Yes there's a perception unfortunately. I think many of us have experienced that first hand when people tell us everyone is a little bit autistic, that we don't look like Rain Man, and that we couldn't possibly be on the spectrum if we can walk, talk, or create mist on a mirror by breathing. :roll:

The claim that 70% are wrongly diagnosed is surely a disservice to us all, not to mention the fact it's bogus.


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IsabellaLinton
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16 Apr 2024, 6:33 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I didn't read it that way. I thought she meant some men might seem autistic because of social awkwardness, nerdiness, loneliness, or trouble with emotional expression etc., but they might actually be faking it (or their parents bought a weak diagnosis). I thought she meant it wasn't fair to women if their partners were kind of using it as an excuse instead of trying to improve their skills. My flip-side was if men can do that, anyone can.

I wouldn't have chosen the word sociopath myself, but I used it because she did.
“Malignant sociopath” seems a bit strong for that sort of behavior. :lol:


I thought she meant that the lying, deception, or misrepresentation made them malignant sociopaths, rather than the fact they were (possibly) undiagnosed nerds. I love nerds myself. All genders welcome. :lol:


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TwilightPrincess
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16 Apr 2024, 6:35 pm

^ Autistics are capable of those behaviors too, not that they make one a “malignant sociopath” either. Of course, autistics would lie and be deceptive about something else.


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16 Apr 2024, 6:38 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
^ Autistics are capable of those behaviors too, not that they make one a “malignant sociopath” either. Of course, autistics would lie and be deceptive about something else.



Bingo.


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17 Apr 2024, 5:52 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:

ASPartOfMe has pointed out that there are reportedly quite a few people who want to jump on the bandwagon of being autistic / neurodiverse and that in some cases, that hurts the autistic population's credibility.

I still don't think it's anywhere 70% like the OP suggests. I'd struggle to believe even 7%, but I'm in no place to judge.

"Reportedly" is the operative word. IMHO the credibility problem is not the result of an epidemic of overdiagnoses and autism wannabees but the perception of an epidemic of overdiagnoses and autism wannabees.

I do agree that because at this time autism is defined by observable and self-reported traits these are opinions.



Thanks for clarifying. Yes there's a perception unfortunately. I think many of us have experienced that first hand when people tell us everyone is a little bit autistic, that we don't look like Rain Man, and that we couldn't possibly be on the spectrum if we can walk, talk, or create mist on a mirror by breathing. :roll:

The claim that 70% are wrongly diagnosed is surely a disservice to us all, not to mention the fact it's bogus.


I saw a poster the other day, behind one of those frames that are hung in public places, sort of like mini billboards and the message was:

"Everyone is neurodivergent, aren't they?" (I might be paraphrasing slightly there, but the message was the same nonsense that contains the word autistic, replaced with the word neurodivergent).

I felt like facepalming.



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17 Apr 2024, 7:50 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Why is it misogyny in action?

Can't it happen in reverse with sociopathic female wannabes?
I've come across many women who seem to fake it to cover their eccentricities.

Sorry if this is a derail to the topic.

Well, sociopathy (and Cluster B disorders in general) is significantly more common in men than in women, but that's a valid question. I'd say that it doesn't seem terribly likely for a woman to fake having autism, if only based on my own personal experience that a woman can't claim to have autism and expect to be taken very seriously (which is a problem in and of itself) and thus stands to gain very little by faking it. Also, as someone who doesn't date women, abusive and manipulative women aren't something I have a great deal of experience dealing with.

I notice a lot of people seem to have been rubbed the wrong way by the words "malignant sociopath" and all I have to say to that is.... well, I'm not sorry. I've had these experiences, I'm sure a lot of women on WP have had these experiences, and if we can't even say that, then... well, I guess I am indeed on the wrong planet here, lol.



IsabellaLinton
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17 Apr 2024, 9:10 am

To be fair I should remove the word "many" from my post that you quoted.
I haven't come across many women who seem to fake it.
I didn't mean that they fake it in a malicious way, either.
I was also referring to all forms of neurodiversity and not just autism.

Could you please clarify what you meant about sociopaths / misogynists?
It seems some of us understood it differently.


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IsabellaLinton
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17 Apr 2024, 9:42 am

Barchan wrote:
Also, as someone who doesn't date women, abusive and manipulative women aren't something I have a great deal of experience dealing with.



For what it's worth I have a great deal of experience with abusive and manipulative people of all genders but my responses weren't based on that history, and my experiences weren't necessarily related to anyone's neurotype.


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17 Apr 2024, 12:54 pm

Barchan wrote:
As an autistic woman who has occasionally dated autistic (or rather "autistic") men, I'd like to be secure in the knowledge that my autistic boyfriend is #ActuallyAutistic, and not a malignant sociopath whose parents doctor-shopped his asperger's diagnosis because it would be less stigmatizing for him.


What makes you secure in the knowledge that you are correctly diagnosed while others are misdiagnosed sociopaths? Women are in general said to be better at masking. If you are better at masking then you are probably better at faking as well.


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17 Apr 2024, 1:10 pm

I dunno, it wasn't that long ago when it seemed like every kid was being diagnosed with ADHD and were put on drugs with freaky side effects such as boys growing man boobies, but then they turned out not to have ADHD at all.

I remember it being hilarious satire in King of the Hill, where Bobby was wrongly diagnosed with ADHD at school when he was just on a huge sugar buzz, and then they put him on pills that made him into a total stoner and at one part he says some like "The milk in the fridge is about to expire... Pfft... And there it goes." :lol:

But NTs never seem to realize how broad the spectrum is, or how female aspies tend to cope with their problems in different ways, or that aspies can be female at all.



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17 Apr 2024, 2:21 pm

So, if I understand correctly "Dr." David Rowland isn't a real doctor and his claims shouldn't be considered without a high degree of skepticism?


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17 Apr 2024, 4:43 pm

Barchan wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Why is it misogyny in action?

Can't it happen in reverse with sociopathic female wannabes?
I've come across many women who seem to fake it to cover their eccentricities.

Sorry if this is a derail to the topic.

Well, sociopathy (and Cluster B disorders in general) is significantly more common in men than in women, but that's a valid question. I'd say that it doesn't seem terribly likely for a woman to fake having autism, if only based on my own personal experience that a woman can't claim to have autism and expect to be taken very seriously (which is a problem in and of itself) and thus stands to gain very little by faking it. Also, as someone who doesn't date women, abusive and manipulative women aren't something I have a great deal of experience dealing with.

I notice a lot of people seem to have been rubbed the wrong way by the words "malignant sociopath" and all I have to say to that is.... well, I'm not sorry. I've had these experiences, I'm sure a lot of women on WP have had these experiences, and if we can't even say that, then... well, I guess I am indeed on the wrong planet here, lol.

Are they? Or is it the same thing we've seen with other diagnoses where it's just different? I've met a fair number of women that have a distant relationship with morality than folks would have me believe. I don't think it's a fluke, I also don't think it's really that more common than with men. The women that behave like that just benefit from the brief that women don't do that and often times being indirectly involved rather than the party that initiates it. Just look at the US Federal branches