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FranzOren
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04 Jun 2024, 7:15 pm

I am sorry that I asked, I was too shy to ask this question as it may trigger and offend some people with ASD, my motivation is to help both autistic people and the general public understand each other in a healthy way.

Is there a reason why some people posit surface-level parallels between Autism Spectrum Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder, like those with ASD unintentionally contravening rules, while those with ASPD do so with mens rea?

It is also a forensic science question, my bad

I am not saying they are the same, it is just how the laymen view them and based on media issues and ignorance.



carlos55
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05 Jun 2024, 3:21 pm

The general view is those with ASD don't always follow the same social "rules" as NTs usually because we don't always understand them. So obviously this is sometimes confused with ASPD.

There`s probably an overlap anyway I've said lots of times and it causes a lot of confusion, these alphabet soup paper diagnosis are individually separated for the purpose of understanding individual needs and possible therapy.

They are not separated in real life. So two different worlds paper world & real world biology & DNA.

In the real world underlying biology or genes may cause multiple symptoms like ASPD, ASD, ADHD , ID etc all at the same time..


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FranzOren
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05 Jun 2024, 7:48 pm

carlos55 wrote:
The general view is those with ASD don't always follow the same social "rules" as NTs usually because we don't always understand them. So obviously this is sometimes confused with ASPD.

There`s probably an overlap anyway I've said lots of times and it causes a lot of confusion, these alphabet soup paper diagnosis are individually separated for the purpose of understanding individual needs and possible therapy.

They are not separated in real life. So two different worlds paper world & real world biology & DNA.

In the real world underlying biology or genes may cause multiple symptoms like ASPD, ASD, ADHD , ID etc all at the same time..


That actually makes sense.



funeralxempire
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05 Jun 2024, 7:53 pm

carlos55 wrote:
The general view is those with ASD don't always follow the same social "rules" as NTs usually because we don't always understand them. So obviously this is sometimes confused with ASPD.

There`s probably an overlap anyway I've said lots of times and it causes a lot of confusion, these alphabet soup paper diagnosis are individually separated for the purpose of understanding individual needs and possible therapy.

They are not separated in real life. So two different worlds paper world & real world biology & DNA.

In the real world underlying biology or genes may cause multiple symptoms like ASPD, ASD, ADHD , ID etc all at the same time..


I feel like autism + ADHD might predispose someone to ending up meeting the ASPD criteria, especially with the wrong influences while developing.

That said, it's not just nature, nurture is a big factor in how one develops. If you allow someone who's prone to black and white thinking and poor theory of mind to collect grievances and be taught the wrong notions about how to socialize it shouldn't be surprising that they might end up with a pretty toxic view of how the world works.


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FranzOren
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05 Jun 2024, 9:10 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
The general view is those with ASD don't always follow the same social "rules" as NTs usually because we don't always understand them. So obviously this is sometimes confused with ASPD.

There`s probably an overlap anyway I've said lots of times and it causes a lot of confusion, these alphabet soup paper diagnosis are individually separated for the purpose of understanding individual needs and possible therapy.

They are not separated in real life. So two different worlds paper world & real world biology & DNA.

In the real world underlying biology or genes may cause multiple symptoms like ASPD, ASD, ADHD , ID etc all at the same time..


I feel like autism + ADHD might predispose someone to ending up meeting the ASPD criteria, especially with the wrong influences while developing.

That said, it's not just nature, nurture is a big factor in how one develops. If you allow someone who's prone to black and white thinking and poor theory of mind to collect grievances and be taught the wrong notions about how to socialize it shouldn't be surprising that they might end up with a pretty toxic view of how the world works.



It is like they also have nihilistic beliefs as well.



funeralxempire
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05 Jun 2024, 9:46 pm

FranzOren wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
The general view is those with ASD don't always follow the same social "rules" as NTs usually because we don't always understand them. So obviously this is sometimes confused with ASPD.

There`s probably an overlap anyway I've said lots of times and it causes a lot of confusion, these alphabet soup paper diagnosis are individually separated for the purpose of understanding individual needs and possible therapy.

They are not separated in real life. So two different worlds paper world & real world biology & DNA.

In the real world underlying biology or genes may cause multiple symptoms like ASPD, ASD, ADHD , ID etc all at the same time..


I feel like autism + ADHD might predispose someone to ending up meeting the ASPD criteria, especially with the wrong influences while developing.

That said, it's not just nature, nurture is a big factor in how one develops. If you allow someone who's prone to black and white thinking and poor theory of mind to collect grievances and be taught the wrong notions about how to socialize it shouldn't be surprising that they might end up with a pretty toxic view of how the world works.



It is like they also have nihilistic beliefs as well.


Definitely, people who are miserable and hopeless are more likely to end up embracing a nihilistic worldview.


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FranzOren
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05 Jun 2024, 10:27 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
FranzOren wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
The general view is those with ASD don't always follow the same social "rules" as NTs usually because we don't always understand them. So obviously this is sometimes confused with ASPD.

There`s probably an overlap anyway I've said lots of times and it causes a lot of confusion, these alphabet soup paper diagnosis are individually separated for the purpose of understanding individual needs and possible therapy.

They are not separated in real life. So two different worlds paper world & real world biology & DNA.

In the real world underlying biology or genes may cause multiple symptoms like ASPD, ASD, ADHD , ID etc all at the same time..


I feel like autism + ADHD might predispose someone to ending up meeting the ASPD criteria, especially with the wrong influences while developing.

That said, it's not just nature, nurture is a big factor in how one develops. If you allow someone who's prone to black and white thinking and poor theory of mind to collect grievances and be taught the wrong notions about how to socialize it shouldn't be surprising that they might end up with a pretty toxic view of how the world works.



It is like they also have nihilistic beliefs as well.


Definitely, people who are miserable and hopeless are more likely to end up embracing a nihilistic worldview.



That makes sense.



carlos55
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06 Jun 2024, 9:25 am

funeralxempire wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
The general view is those with ASD don't always follow the same social "rules" as NTs usually because we don't always understand them. So obviously this is sometimes confused with ASPD.

There`s probably an overlap anyway I've said lots of times and it causes a lot of confusion, these alphabet soup paper diagnosis are individually separated for the purpose of understanding individual needs and possible therapy.

They are not separated in real life. So two different worlds paper world & real world biology & DNA.

In the real world underlying biology or genes may cause multiple symptoms like ASPD, ASD, ADHD , ID etc all at the same time..


I feel like autism + ADHD might predispose someone to ending up meeting the ASPD criteria, especially with the wrong influences while developing.

That said, it's not just nature, nurture is a big factor in how one develops. If you allow someone who's prone to black and white thinking and poor theory of mind to collect grievances and be taught the wrong notions about how to socialize it shouldn't be surprising that they might end up with a pretty toxic view of how the world works.


The thing about nurture is true too, i think free will is generally not as strong as many believe it to be.

Most people, autistic or NTs fall into their own personal thought algorithms following predictable behaviours.

Ask them to make a major choice like what career to chose from and they will find it very uncomfortable and stressful.

This is why people fall into predictable behaviours like the low academic teen who lives in a poor area with gangs will likely go on to commit crime or be involved in a shooting its just probability at work and the people around him.

He has a choice to get off and move somewhere else, or do something else, some do of course, but it would take a lot of internal strength and commitment but most simply don't have that or engage in thought avoidance to avoid the stress of confronting what needs to be done.


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FranzOren
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06 Jun 2024, 10:47 am

carlos55 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
The general view is those with ASD don't always follow the same social "rules" as NTs usually because we don't always understand them. So obviously this is sometimes confused with ASPD.

There`s probably an overlap anyway I've said lots of times and it causes a lot of confusion, these alphabet soup paper diagnosis are individually separated for the purpose of understanding individual needs and possible therapy.

They are not separated in real life. So two different worlds paper world & real world biology & DNA.

In the real world underlying biology or genes may cause multiple symptoms like ASPD, ASD, ADHD , ID etc all at the same time..


I feel like autism + ADHD might predispose someone to ending up meeting the ASPD criteria, especially with the wrong influences while developing.

That said, it's not just nature, nurture is a big factor in how one develops. If you allow someone who's prone to black and white thinking and poor theory of mind to collect grievances and be taught the wrong notions about how to socialize it shouldn't be surprising that they might end up with a pretty toxic view of how the world works.


The thing about nurture is true too, i think free will is generally not as strong as many believe it to be.

Most people, autistic or NTs fall into their own personal thought algorithms following predictable behaviours.

Ask them to make a major choice like what career to chose from and they will find it very uncomfortable and stressful.

This is why people fall into predictable behaviours like the low academic teen who lives in a poor area with gangs will likely go on to commit crime or be involved in a shooting its just probability at work and the people around him.

He has a choice to get off and move somewhere else, or do something else, some do of course, but it would take a lot of internal strength and commitment but most simply don't have that or engage in thought avoidance to avoid the stress of confronting what needs to be done.




And that is exactly how severe personality disorders and severe paraphilic disorders develop and cause delusional thinking.