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blast335
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17 Jun 2024, 11:14 am

So I've been researching modern-day miracle claims lately, mostly sticking with miraculous healings but that's more due to them tending to have better documentation/study than anything else so I haven't been excluding them from study. I have gone about this because I've heard over and over from atheists/agnostics/skeptics that "There are miracle claims from every religion!" and "If a Christian healing is proof of Christianity, then an Islamic healing is proof of Islam!". But I haven't been able to find any claims of miraculous healing (or miracles in general) outside of Christianity, much less ones that pass the D.O.U.B.T.S. filter (A stringent set of criteria that helps weed out really weak claims so that I, and other investigators, are not inundated with "Jesus healed my sunburn!" or "I went blind but was healed before I got to the doctor!" or anything from Benny Hinn. See here for a description of the filter).

After a few hours of searching the only non-christian, modern miracle claim I have been able to find is the 1995 Ganesha Drinking Milk Miracle, where spoonfuls of milk put up to the mouths of idols of the Hindu god Ganesha appeared to disappear (this has been fully explained by capillary action and can be recreated on any stone statue).

And so I come to you my friends: are you aware of any non-Christian miracle claims?


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17 Jun 2024, 7:41 pm

When you dig deeper into these alleged "miracles", you will find some kind of magician's trick being staged for gullible people.


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18 Jun 2024, 6:36 am

blast335 wrote:
After a few hours of searching the only non-christian, modern miracle claim I have been able to find is the 1995 Ganesha Drinking Milk Miracle, where spoonfuls of milk put up to the mouths of idols of the Hindu god Ganesha appeared to disappear (this has been fully explained by capillary action and can be recreated on any stone statue).


I thought Ganesha wasn't allowed to drink milk. Will Ganesha get into trouble with the other Hindu gods for this?


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Bestiola
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18 Jun 2024, 7:18 am

This guy is famous for his "miracles" which are just as "convincing" as Christian miracles:



blast335
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18 Jun 2024, 10:13 am

Fnord wrote:
When you dig deeper into these alleged "miracles", you will find some kind of magician's trick being staged for gullible people.


You are, for the most part, right, but that type of dismissive skepticism, without any type serious investigation, is blind faith.

Bestiola wrote:
This guy is famous for his "miracles" which are just as "convincing" as Christian miracles:


He fails the D.O.U.B.T.S. criteria, O and many of them fail T as well. But thank you for sharing them.


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Bestiola
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18 Jun 2024, 10:38 am

No problem, here's one contemporary semi-Buddhist miracle man: https://philpapers.org/rec/CHEMAN-2

Mainstream Buddhist sects have somewhat ambivalent explanations for the miracles, and the same goes for some other religious traditions, which might explain issues with finding them.



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18 Jun 2024, 10:41 am

Druze kids claim they remember their previous life, and they form bonds with "previous families".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_v2Pb9 ... RODUCTIONS

This video was filmed in the 90s I think.



naturalplastic
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18 Jun 2024, 12:51 pm

Interesting question. I was gonna mention that Hindu cow milk thing, but you beat me to that.

There are rock paintings, and actual accounts, of the prechristian Pagan tribes of Europe, gathering to engage in ecstatic dances, and being possessed by spirits that (to me at least) resemble how modern American Christian Pentacostals worship their one God.

Hard to think of other examples. Islam "works" as a piece of religious machinery much the same way that its cousins Judiasm and Christianity "work". So you would think that Islam would have saints and miracles of the same kind but I am not aware of much of that sorta thing in Islam AFTER the founder was take up to heaven on a white horse. An Afghan refugee guy told me there was a story about a huge tower built in his country by one guy...gathering rocks...that would count as a Muslim miracle.

But when you venture into Eastern religions, Paganism, and animism, its starts to blur where religion ends and where magic begins because the divide between what we Westerners consider to be "religion" and "nonreligion" may not be the same.

In the Thirteenth century the Mongol conquerors of mainland Asia attempted two amphibious invasions of Japan. HUGE invasions. In both invasions the Japanese kept them at bay on the beaches...until...the Mongol fleets got wiped out by Typhoons. The Typhoons that drowned the invaders on both occasions were considered divine intervention to save Japan and thus were dubbed "divine wind" or "kami kazi" (hence the term for the 20th century suicide pilots 800 years later). So those naturally occurring typhoons might count as a "Shinto miracle".



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18 Jun 2024, 5:41 pm

blast335 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
When you dig deeper into these alleged "miracles", you will find some kind of magician's trick being staged for gullible people.
You are, for the most part, right, but that type of dismissive skepticism, without any type serious investigation, is blind faith.
That which is asserted without evidence is dismissed without evidence.  However, here are a couple of fact-based items you should know about before putting YOUR faith in religious hoaxes:

• Seeking to explain the claims, Ross McDowall led a team of scientists from India's Ministry of Science and Technology, travelled to a temple in New Delhi and made an offering of milk containing a food colouring.  As the level of liquid in the spoon dropped, the scientists stated that after the milk disappeared from the spoon, it coated the statue beneath where the spoon was placed.  With this result, the scientists offered capillary action as an explanation; the surface tension of the milk was pulling the liquid up and out of the spoon, before gravity caused it to run down the front of the statue.  (Ref.: Suzanne Goldenberg, "India's gods milk their faithful in a brief 'miracle'", The Guardian, 22 September 1995.)

• Sitaram Kesri, labor minister in the Narasimha Rao government, quoted internal reports to say that a temple in Jhandewalan Park near the RSS headquarters in Delhi was the epicentre of the miracle.  He said it was a ploy by the Hindu nationalist BJP to gain votes in the ensuing Lok Sabha elections by spreading false rumours.  The phenomenon reportedly spread by an organized barrage of late-night telephone calls to Hindu temples all over India and the world, telling them to feed their statues milk.  (Ref.: "How the Sangh Parivar Organised the 1995 Ganesh Milk Miracle and Why the Plan Flopped".  The Wire.  21 September 2020.  LINK )

It's like I said . . . (Translation: "I told you so!")
Fnord wrote:
When you dig deeper into these alleged "miracles", you will find some kind of magician's trick being staged for gullible people.


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19 Jun 2024, 3:45 pm

Many miracles have been attributed to Menachem Schneerson, the Lubavitcher Rebbe. More where this came from:


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19 Jun 2024, 5:19 pm

There are ancient monuments in Celtic Europe, that have inscriptions along the lines of 'Biggus Dickus erects this statue in fulfillment of a vow for the healing of his wife Cavernious Vag...' (the last bit tragically broken off, so we'll never know her full name).
The point being, they accepted the reality of miraculous healings.


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Fnord
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20 Jun 2024, 2:34 am

MaxE wrote:
Many miracles have been attributed to Menachem Schneerson, the Lubavitcher Rebbe. More where this came from . . .
I hope not.

Quote:
Chabad is a religious cult and a criminal organization.  Chabad poses as an Orthodox Jewish group.  They say they are more religious, more strict in their religion, than regular Orthodox Jews.

In reality, Chabad's ideology is NOT Jewish.  In Israel, Chabad is considered by the most important Rabbis as a religion different from Judaism.

Chabadism is NOT Judaism.  Chabad is a criminal organization.  Chabad is mostly involved in white collar criminal activities such as financial fraud, tax evasion, and money laundering.

When these criminal activities are discovered and exposed to the public, and because Chabad poses as a Jewish organization, anti-Jewish hatred is created.  That is, Chabad creates anti-semitism in the world.

Also, most of Chabad victims are Jewish children.  Chabad runs several schools around the world.  The objective of these schools is NOT to provide a good Jewish education for their students.  The objective of these schools is to MAKE A PROFIT at the expense of the Jewish children.

In fact, everything and anything Chabad does, they do to MAKE A PROFIT.  Chabad Rabbis are known to have millions of dollars in their offshore bank accounts resulting from, among other things, donations.

This facts explain the advice that many important Rabbis have been giving us for the past few decades:

• Do not put your children in a Chabad school, even if they offer you free tuition.

• If your children are now in a Chabad school, remove them immediately.

• Never give any money to Chabad, never give any donations to Chabad.

• Boycott all Chabad projects, and avoid praying in a Chabad temple.


Read the Complete and Unedited Webpage  HERE .

While you're at it, read  The Failed Messiah .

It would seem that they are not called the "Chabad Maffia" for nothing.

But, if you want to read Chabad's own take on Menachem Schneerson, the Lubavitcher Rebbe,  Here is the link .


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bee33
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20 Jun 2024, 11:21 pm

Miracles are a part of the Christian tradition, that's why there are many claims of miracles within Christianity.

Jesus performed many miracles according to scripture and saints have to have performed miracles in order to be declared saints. It's as simple as that: there are miracles claimed within Christianity because people are specifically looking for them.

Of course there are no actual miracles.



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22 Jun 2024, 4:47 am

bee33 wrote:
Miracles are a part of the Christian tradition, that's why there are many claims of miracles within Christianity.

Jesus performed many miracles according to scripture and saints have to have performed miracles in order to be declared saints. It's as simple as that: there are miracles claimed within Christianity because people are specifically looking for them.

Of course there are no actual miracles.

This is a great take on the subject, like the whole Christian narrative is predicated on miracles.


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22 Jun 2024, 12:52 pm



Typically, What Tradition Fears Most Is Change

With the Fear that the Glue That Holds the
Adherents of the Tradition Will Lose Its Grip...

Change Holds No Fear...

Change is The Only Constant...

Some Folks Are Open to Change...

Some Folks are Not Open to Change...

Real Life Miracles, Likely All Natural with
No Medical Explanation are Housed in Medical
Files of Remission of Incurable Illness With No Medical Explanation...

These Remissions are Often associated With the 'Placebo Effect' That Only
Around 30 Percent of Humanity Has the Ability to Process Healing With the Power

of Suggestion

With Loving
Intent Most

Effective;

And With Those Who
Folks Lend Unwavering
Trust to, Like Folks Who
Provide Sugar Pills in Authoritative

White Coats and Colored Robes; Yes,
Doctors Prescribing Sugar Pills for the Placebo
Effect to Work and Of Course Little Wafers of Bread
And Sips of Wine Described as the Literal transformed

Body of a Dude
Referred to As

Jesus Christ

From the Religion
of Christianity Prescribed By Priests...

Yes, the 'Placebo Effect' Has Healing Properties

And Yes the 'Nocebo Effect' May Injure Human Health too...

The Power of Belief in 'Prayer' This Way Has Some Substance of Reality
As Well as 'Real Voodoo' Too; Focus on Getting Ill Enough And Presto Illness May come

To Visit
Those Influenced
By the Power of
Negative Suggestions,
Either Administered by
Others or Self Administered too...

True, it Would Be Rather Foolish Not to
Maximize the Healing Properties of the Placebo
Effect If One Is So Inclined to Actually Benefit From It...

Through History, Myriads of Religions Have Been Developed
With a System of Carrots and Sticks (i.e. Heaven and Hell After A Dirt Nap)

To MaNiPuLaTE, Control, and Master the 'Masses;' Particularly, Effective Before
Literacy, Where Interpretations of So-Called Holy Text Were Considered 'The Final Words'...

Yawn, the Miracles, The Carrots and Sticks
in the Christian Bible and Many Other Sacred
Texts Are Based on HearSay Decades to Centuries

Later Recorded Most often by Ghost Authors and Scribes,
Making Both Unintentional And Intentional Change to the Scripts too...

No Record of Jesus
Ever Writing one Word;

All Dependent on Decades
to Centuries Later Hearsay by Others Indeed;

The Ghost Authors, Mostly Greek Writing Romans
of the New Testament And Some Words
Likely By a Real Dude Called Paul

Once Called Saul

Yet According to Biblical
Scholars Like the Creme of
That Crop, Bart Ehrman, Many of the
Contradictions that So-called Paul

Made May Be attributed to other
Ghost Authors Writing the Text

And Or Scribe Mistakes and
Intentional Changes by them of Course too...

Depending on One's View of Existence Now; How Wide
or Narrow A Scope of Subconscious to Conscious Mind Will Bring...

Is It not Miracle Enough That We Even Exist to Ponder The Wonder and
Awe of What Nature Naturally Brings, Always Changing, Always Mysteries

to Uncover

To Expand
Our Experience
of Reality in Colors Ever New...

Some Species of Worms May Lose
Their Heads and Brains, Only to Re-Grow

Both and Retain Memories of Learned Behavior Before....

Some Species of Sharks actually Generate 'Virgin Births;' And True
Sharks Have Been Around A Half a Billion Years With Most Incredible

ElectroMagnetic Abilities
to Find Food Underneath
the Ocean Floor; True it Takes

More Than Just Regenerating
Scores of Thousands of Teeth More to Eat...

A Hermit Thrush Bird named Herman Has Solo Visited
my Sister's Home For 7 years now to be Hand-Fed Raisins
Each Day From November Through April Until He Migrates

Again to the Great North Country of Canada for the Milder

Weather Months There; Threading His Way, Flying A Needle Through

A Haystack to Find My Sister's Third of an Acre in Florida Every Year...

As Far as i'm Concerned,
The Miracles Even if True

in the Bible are of Little Measure
Beyond What Nature Naturally Brings

Far Beyond What Science in Its Antiquated Yet Effective
5-Step Method May Measure Today; And Then of Course

All the Real Life Miracles Humans Bring Through Our Collective
Knowledge, Technologies, Arts that would Surely Excite the Folks in the

Days of Jesus

More Than
Any Sacred Text;

Yes, Like the Resuscitation
Of Folks Back to Life after
A Heart Attack Takes Their Heart Beat Away;

Surely Not Limited to the Adherents of
Any One Religion and Or Cultural Tradition...

Shall i List the Rest of the Every Day Miracles or Shall

i View The World

Like William Blake:

"To see a World in a Grain of Sand And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour."

Indeed, Miracles

Are A Matter

of Perspective...

Yawn, Fiction is Boring;

Every Moment of Reality
is MaGiC and Miracles For

Those Who Understand THeir 'Craft'...

Anyway A Quick Litmus Test for Either
A False Religion/God or A Real Religion/God:

Love That is Real iN Peace Requires NO Worship and Fears NO Criticism...

Love That is Not Real iN Peace, More Likely War, Requires Trump-Like Worship

And Fears
All Trump-Like
Criticism; So An

Honest ASSeSSMeNT

of Most Traditional Religion

Lends A Greater 'Orange' Preference

Toward a False Religion/God of LoVE iN War...

Fortunately in the Christian
Bible There Are Some
True Remnants Left

in that Tradition

That Lend Truth
to LoVE iN Peace;

Considering; the Empire
That Created The Religion

Perhaps a Greatest Miracle
is Any Part of LoVE iN Peace

Is Left in the Book and Religion at all...

Yet You See, LoVE iN Peace Has Always
Been Real for Humans No Matter Religion or

God For

Those

Who Practice

A Way of LiFE

oF LoVE iN Peace

Where All Becomes the Living Giving Sharing Caring
Healing Placebo Effect and Nocebo Naturally Dies With

Its Children
of Taking
Hoarding

And

Callously
Harming Per the 'Trump Effect,' That is Most Sadly

Also A Natural Part of the Human Condition in DarK...

So the DarK Side and LiGHT Side of All Natural Miracles Continues Change...

Yawn,

CHANGE,

It is what is;
Make the Best
oF iT All or not...

Gonna Do the Miracle
Thingy As Long as this
LoVE iN Peace Lasts for me

at
least..:)



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