Math question supposed to reveal if someone is autistic

Page 2 of 3 [ 37 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,905
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

22 Nov 2024, 4:14 pm

This makes sense. NTs process input in real-time, which might lead them to get tripped up by a question like this.

People on the spectrum would also be wary of being humiliated by a "gotcha" question.


_________________
My WP story


Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,978
Location: England

22 Nov 2024, 4:49 pm

Admittedly, if an examiner sat me down and asked me to answer this question, I'd stare at them incredibly annoyed - and put something completely random down, like the truth was always in you, then I'd walk off.

I freaking hate questions like these. Why do I need to know the price of the ball? Surely if I wanted to just buy the ball, then I could look at the independent price? Why the mind games? Am I making sure they're not ripping me off? Do I not trust this hypothetical store?

:?:

What utter nonsense. I'm turning my piece of paper into an aeroplane and throwing it at you if you're going to ask me this. You've been warned. :lol:


_________________
Support human artists!

25. Near the spectrum but not on it.


utterly absurd
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Feb 2024
Age: 19
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,787
Location: Wisconsin

22 Nov 2024, 4:59 pm

BillyTree wrote:
From the linked article. I'm not sure everyone read the article before commenting.
"If a person takes the time to think through the question and answers it correctly, it reveals that they're using their ability to think logically to fully understand the mathematical components.

This could put them on the spectrum because those with autism are neurologically built to think this way. Luraschi said that answering the question correctly 'can be indicative of a certain type of thinking style.'

Although this test cannot replace a clinical diagnosis, it can shed light on your thinking style.

A 2022 study found that those who were autistic and relied on the slower, logical and intuitive way of thinking were more likely to answer the question correctly."

So maybe autistic people are more likely to get the answer right. That's not the same as "all autistic people are right and all nonautistic people are wrong". It still doesn't reveal anything.

You're right, I should've read the article. "Utter BS" still holds.


_________________
Diagnosed ASD, ADHD, Tourettes age 5
I don't mean to offend anyone, I just have very strong opinions
Feel free to PM me--I like to talk about most things other than sports


ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 72
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,207

22 Nov 2024, 8:58 pm

Without reading the article, I first very glibly arrived at the answer that the ball cost 10c. But I checked it and saw that was wrong, so I did it more carefully:

The problem can be reduced to simultaneous equations:
equation (1): BAT+BALL=110
equation (2): BAT-BALL=100
Adding the equations,
2 x BAT = 210
Dividing that new equation by 2,
BAT=105
Substituting that in equation (1):
105+BALL=110
Subtracting 105 from each side,
BALL=110-105
therefore
BALL=5
check:
BAT+BALL=105+5=110 correct
BAT-BALL=105-5=100 correct

Then I looked at the article. It seems I can do both system 1 and system 2 thinking, but possibly I tend to try system 1 first, and then if that fails, I switch to system 2.

It kind of fits. I'm very aware that I often get trapped in minute details, which gets tedious for self and others and wastes a lot of time, so (perhaps as a somewhat reconstructed Aspie) I often to go for the glib way of thinking as a first resort, and if that fails, I revert to the more detailed thinking style.

I had fairly good training in elementary mathematics, so I knew a bit about "simultaneous equations" - the exercise here is much like the questions they used to give us. It's not every day I need to know such things, so it took a bit of effort to recall the matter.

I don't believe it's diagnostic of ASD. I think it's diagnostic of having some kind of a flair for elementary mathematics.

I didn't click the button that said "continue reading" because I thought it might lead to tracking or a signup coercion, also because I've spent enough time on this matter as it is and I think I got all I need to know from the text before that button. It was kind of fun to get it right in the end. To a degree I like challenges and proving I can do things.



y-pod
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,698
Location: Canada

23 Nov 2024, 5:40 am

Took about 5 seconds to solve that. I think everybody I know can answer that correctly. Oh right, most people I know are related or similar to me. :D Although I think most autistics wouldn't be interested in ball or bat. :) If you switch the question to a cupcake and a cherry, people might try harder. And if the reward for answering correctly is a cupcake and a cherry, most people would try really hard. :D


_________________
AQ score: 44
Aspie mom to two autistic sons (21 & 20 )


DuckHairback
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2021
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,779
Location: Durotriges Territory

23 Nov 2024, 6:10 am

My reaction to that sort of question is always suspicion that I'm being tricked somehow - it's like an invitation to make a fool of myself.

I don't know if that's anything to do with autism or just my own ego sending out distress signals.

Anyway, it gets in the way of me engaging directly with the maths of it, which is easy enough. When I engage with the question I can do it in my head and get it right.

But then I get annoyed with the unliklihood of the answer. I know the approximate value of a bat and a ball and the answer is completely unrealistic, both as individual items and in terms of their value relative to each other. .

And I wonder if that's why whoever posed the question chose those objects rather than two objects that are more likely to be worth those values.

Why not just say "Two items cost $1.10..."

Take the bat and ball out of the equation and it gets easier in my head.

Again, I'm wondering if the whole thing is designed to trip you up.

Maybe the test suggests autistic people are more suspicious and more likely to evaluate the question for pitfalls rather than just go for an answer?


_________________
The world is a big place where things happen almost every day.


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,905
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

23 Nov 2024, 7:35 am

DuckHairback wrote:

Maybe the test suggests autistic people are more suspicious and more likely to evaluate the question for pitfalls rather than just go for an answer?

I said exactly this in a previous comment.

Quote:
People on the spectrum would also be wary of being humiliated by a "gotcha" question.


_________________
My WP story


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,905
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

23 Nov 2024, 7:38 am

x + (× + 1.0) = 1.10
2x + 1.0 = 1.10
2x = 0.10
x = 0.05 (the price of the ball)


_________________
My WP story


DuckHairback
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2021
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,779
Location: Durotriges Territory

23 Nov 2024, 3:14 pm

MaxE wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:

Maybe the test suggests autistic people are more suspicious and more likely to evaluate the question for pitfalls rather than just go for an answer?

I said exactly this in a previous comment.

Quote:
People on the spectrum would also be wary of being humiliated by a "gotcha" question.


So you did.


_________________
The world is a big place where things happen almost every day.


LittleBeach
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2024
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 511
Location: UK

23 Nov 2024, 3:39 pm

I feel like I would definitely have got the answer wrong if asked in an interview situation. I’ve always felt I have a bias towards system 2 thinking, but the downside is that it makes me feel very stressed because I am used to people answering maths questions much quicker than me, and that leads to me feeling stupid and self conscious. Ironically this stress response results in me getting things wrong, even if my thinking style would usually lead me towards the correct answer.

In a written exam situation, where no one was monitoring me, I believe I would get the correct answer.



MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,905
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

23 Nov 2024, 5:07 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
MaxE wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:

Maybe the test suggests autistic people are more suspicious and more likely to evaluate the question for pitfalls rather than just go for an answer?

I said exactly this in a previous comment.

Quote:
People on the spectrum would also be wary of being humiliated by a "gotcha" question.


So you did.

And now you've made me feel bad about pointing that out.


_________________
My WP story


ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 72
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,207

23 Nov 2024, 7:14 pm

MaxE wrote:
x + (× + 1.0) = 1.10
2x + 1.0 = 1.10
2x = 0.10
x = 0.05 (the price of the ball)

I had trouble following that, because:
a) I had to get some of it from the context and by reading it right to the end where you said that x was the price of the ball. On a less patient day I'd have abandoned it before getting that far.
b) For some reason one of your x's looks like a superscript, i.e.
× rather than x, so I thought it was some fancy kind of notation that was beyond my understanding. Even now I don't know how you got that little x. I had to copy and paste it from your post to reproduce it here. Must be a different character code to the usual x.

Anyway, your proof wins in terms of brevity, mine (arguably) wins in terms of painstaking clarity, though it does rather assume the reader is familiar with simultaneous equations.

This here post says a lot about how my brain works:
1. If there's anything even vaguely inconsistent or misleading in a communication, I'll get stuck on it.
2. I usually begin by thinking I can't figure it out, and wonder why the author wasn't clear.
3. Nonetheless, given enough time I usually do figure it out.
4. My explanations are often of the verbose type.



ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 72
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,207

23 Nov 2024, 7:39 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
My reaction to that sort of question is always suspicion that I'm being tricked somehow - it's like an invitation to make a fool of myself.

I don't know if that's anything to do with autism or just my own ego sending out distress signals.

Anyway, it gets in the way of me engaging directly with the maths of it, which is easy enough. When I engage with the question I can do it in my head and get it right.

But then I get annoyed with the unlikelihood of the answer. I know the approximate value of a bat and a ball and the answer is completely unrealistic, both as individual items and in terms of their value relative to each other. .

And I wonder if that's why whoever posed the question chose those objects rather than two objects that are more likely to be worth those values.

Why not just say "Two items cost $1.10..."

Take the bat and ball out of the equation and it gets easier in my head.

Again, I'm wondering if the whole thing is designed to trip you up.

Maybe the test suggests autistic people are more suspicious and more likely to evaluate the question for pitfalls rather than just go for an answer?

Not sure it's autistic suspicion or just that we live in a world full of trick questions.

I kind of agree about the introduction of the bat and ball. It seems to be a common device that's supposed to make things easier to follow by making the matter more concrete. Some would call it dummying-down. In my case, sometimes maybe it helps, but often it just makes matters worse, because it's a distraction. In this case, for some reason I wasn't distracted by the crazy prices of the bat and ball, which I barely noticed in my enthusiasm to solve the riddle itself, but I suspect that "commodity A" and "commodity B" would have done just as well. I'm OK with abstract stuff at that simple level. For some reason I didn't equate bats and balls to my disdain for sport. The disdain is only partial, and has little to do with the equipment, particularly if it's inexpensive.

But I couldn't have solved the problem in my head and without recourse to writing it down. Probably that's down to a memory impairment, i.e. my short-term memory has a hole in it so I benefit from having everything set out before me to remind me of things.



rpcarnell
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 338

04 Dec 2024, 5:05 pm

I got it wrong too.

I guess I am an NT


_________________
Your Aspie score: 163 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 50 of 200


skibum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,462
Location: my own little world

04 Dec 2024, 5:15 pm

utterly absurd wrote:
Utter BS. I don't know if there's evidence that autistic people are more likely to be good at math (although based on people I know I'd guess yes), but obviously plenty of nonautistic people are good at math and plenty of autistic people are bad at math. Not to mention that question is fairly simple, it doesn't even say much about a person's math ability. It couldn't reveal anything about autism.
It's not a math question. Technically it uses math but it's not about the math. It reveals a type of thought process.


_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."

Wreck It Ralph


skibum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,462
Location: my own little world

04 Dec 2024, 5:17 pm

SendInTheClowns wrote:
I am glad you included "supposed to" in the title. One study is one study, and that's all. Scientifically meaningless.

(Will all WP members who didn't solve the problem correctly now please change their profile and declare themselves neurotypical today. If this is not done by midnight they will turn into pumpkins).

Mathematical ability is highly heritable, and there are an abundance of studies on that topic; this is true for both neurotypicals and the AS population.
The question is not testing mathematical ability.


_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."

Wreck It Ralph