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02 Sep 2007, 1:01 pm

I think they lack theory of mind too. That's why there are misunderstandings, miscommunications, they assume we would understand them like reading between the lines, knowing what they mean when they use phrases or don't say what they literally mean, etc. Some of them might think we are being a smartass when we misunderstand them because they assumed we got what they meant. They also sometimes fail to understand our point of views, don't underastand how our mind works, etc. What do you think?



fresco
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02 Sep 2007, 1:06 pm

Oh yes definitely they mis-read all the time and often very blinkered especially when it comes to understanding difference.



TheMidnightJudge
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02 Sep 2007, 1:12 pm

Yes



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02 Sep 2007, 1:30 pm

Interesting theory...



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02 Sep 2007, 1:49 pm

Of course they lack it also, but perhaps more because they are unaware. We find theory of mind because we become aware of it and it becomes a conscious effort of ours to consider others and their emotions/thoughts. If you never struggled with it, as an NT, perhaps you never develop it. I honestly believe that we may have the potential to even have more theory of mind in the end than the average NT. I certainly do, sometimes, with regards to deep empathy. I just need time, though, can't do it "on cue", in fast, social conversations, lol... :) But if someone needs to sit with a person and hold their hand while they grief deeply or need to share something intensely personal that needs depth of understanding, I'm more likely to be the one they'd ask to come over.



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02 Sep 2007, 1:59 pm

I think they have a Theory of Mind, but it's narrow. While they recognize others will perceive and think differently, they are used to a certain range of differences. When our perceptions and thoughts fall outside of that range, the misunderstandings begin. The more intelligent people seem to allow for a wider range of differences, which is why we get along better with people who think than with people who don't.


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02 Sep 2007, 3:38 pm

NT's are often focused on worrying about what others are thinking and ensuring they conform.

This takes up a lot of brain space and leads to blinkering.

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02 Sep 2007, 4:16 pm

I think that they do lack theory of mind.



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02 Sep 2007, 4:24 pm

very true, there are some non-conforming NTs who are more open minded as well, but theyr in the minority of NTs. Most NTs, and their establishment, divide themselves into cliques that act in opposition to one another. To be honest, I think they'd have more respect for someone conforming to their "enemy clique" then they would for someone who doesn't conform to anything.
Good example is in how American society's opinions are set in stone by whatever clique they choose. Theyr either "liberal" or "conservative". These are basically sociological categories by now, not merely political cliques. To anyone who literally thinks for themselves and seeks out transcedental truth, then they become the total outcast. There is no such thing as right or wrong in their little game, by their rules "right" is completely subjective to what clique they are in, "right" is blind conformity to whatever their group does.
But there is a transcedental truth in right and wrong that delves beyond ideologies and into being fair to your fellow human, being open minded, and not letting bias bog down one's judgement.
Remember, Columbus proved the world was round, this fact wasn't within conformity to the greater social perspective of the time, so they tried to hide this truth, bury it. In fact Columbus was treated as a heretic for making the discovery.



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02 Sep 2007, 8:02 pm

likedcalico wrote:
I think they lack theory of mind too. That's why there are misunderstandings, miscommunications, they assume we would understand them like reading between the lines, knowing what they mean when they use phrases or don't say what they literally mean, etc. Some of them might think we are being a smartass when we misunderstand them because they assumed we got what they meant. They also sometimes fail to understand our point of views, don't underastand how our mind works, etc. What do you think?

I agree, that NT's are as mind-blind as we are (maybe in different areas). They just don't know their assumptions are faulty, esp. if no one corrects them/sets them straight.
When I can't get accurate (confirmable) info. I say I'm confused, don't understand, don't know-perhaps other people are more able to work on incomplete/wrong interpretations & conclusions.
MysteryFan3 wrote:
I think they have a Theory of Mind, but it's narrow. While they recognize others will perceive and think differently, they are used to a certain range of differences. When our perceptions and thoughts fall outside of that range, the misunderstandings begin.

Yes, that too-I figure anything's possible in range of human behavior, motivation, assignment of personal meaning in idiosyncratic fashion. Some standards that are applied by majority of people are not values or thresholds that I share, yet I'm subjected to other peoples' definitions of me.


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MarieElana
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02 Sep 2007, 8:04 pm

What do you mean when you say theory of mind? x:


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arem
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03 Sep 2007, 12:42 am

I think that both NTs and ASs have a theory of mind; it's just not the same one.


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frankwah
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03 Sep 2007, 1:12 am

It's interesting being an aspie and actively watching the behaviors of other aspies. My dad is an aspie and I get to see how we aspies behave first-hand. My dad is very obsessed with financials. Very obsessed with himself. I am the same way, but to a lesser extent; I am more NT than my dad. He does seem to be childish. He doesn't seem to understand that other people have other things going on in their minds. For example, when you're reading a book, he loves to tell you sporadically what he's reading every five minutes or so. It's fine, but it gets to be irritating, because, afterall you are being interrupted from what you're doing, from what you're reading. I'm more of a laconic aspie. I like to be alone when I read. I'm not as tragically aspie as my dad, thanks to my learning, thanks to my dad.