Institutions
richardbenson
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bad. even though i hate religion, it does provide some morals for people to live by and if it wasnt there the wrld would probably be alot worse off. acedemic institutions are breeding grounds for bullies, mental institutions are just plain terrible, political institutions are just plain bS, medical institutions are probably the only good guys up there
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Like : "A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed."
Like : "If you make God angry enough, he will kill you and your family with his own sword."
Like : "And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities."
richardbenson
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thats the extreme side of religion way back when. some of it still exists today but could you imagine if there was no ten commandments? or holy books? people wouldnt regard life as valuable and we'd have a sociaty run by one person. that sounds like alot of fun
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Winds of clarity. a universal understanding come and go, I've seen though the Darkness to understand the bounty of Light
Hey man. You know they were from the bible, not from a cult. Just the bible.
Every Christian has a bible. Every bible teaches ... violence, revenge, murder, pettiness.
Poysonally I regard life as extremely valuable and have a very strong moral code and it has nothing to do with the 10 commandments, so I must disagree with you !
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EatingPoetry
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Institutions are necessary for a functioning human society or for human organization. If we hold society or organizations as being good then institutions must be considered good. I believe that society or certain organizations are good therefore institutions are good.
I called it "Institutional Regimentation" in my mind in the past.
Actually, I completely disagree. Morality is not logical as it relies on premises that cannot be derived from observation. Observation tells you how the world does work, morality tells you how it should, you cannot derive what should happen from what does happen though. The premise must be invented to determine what should happen and logic does not tell you to make stuff up.
A number of issues come to mind immediately :
a. "Institutions are necessary for a functioning human society" says who ?
b. "If we hold society or organizations as being good then institutions must be considered good." no, this is incorrect
c. Institutions has a specify meaning in the OP's statement, you seem to be using it in a more general sense
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Actually, I completely disagree. Morality is not logical as it relies on premises that cannot be derived from observation. Observation tells you how the world does work, morality tells you how it should, you cannot derive what should happen from what does happen though. The premise must be invented to determine what should happen and logic does not tell you to make stuff up.
I don't think this makes sense. If everyone behaved in exactly the same manner, all we would observe is a single type of behavior, and then, perhaps, be unable to imagine any other way of doing things. Perhaps.
But our behavior is varied and we could decide if one type is better than another, for whatever reason, based on that alone.
I think our disagreement actually has to do with the nature of morality, however. I side with Shakespeare: Nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so. I don't believe we are so stupid that we cannot imagine all the options without divine guidance.
And I believe that we are animals with a limited number of choices to make. And everything we do is natural, or it wouldn't happen. Whether an action is moral or not depends on what it does to or for you.
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Then if you are at that point, institutions might very well be your evil. Sorry if I misjudged or sounded harsh!
a. "Institutions are necessary for a functioning human society" says who ?
There are no examples of a society bereft of institutions and I cannot even think of one that could work. All organization ends up being an institution on some level, societies must have organizations, and on some level society is merely a grouping of many different institutions.
If they are necessary for a greater good then we must accept them as good all else being equal.
Not really, it is very generic. It is anything set up for any purpose, some examples are given but etc does clearly follow. The OP really did not specify well enough because here is how I read the examples: colleges/schools, churches, political parties/action groups/governments, hospitals/medical organizations, mental hospitals, etc. All of those are institutions that would be implied by the original post and a society lacking these tools would end up being severely lacking to the point of failure as I think that even anarchists believe in institutions just not so much forced association.
Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 08 Sep 2007, 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
No, we cannot do that. I explicitly stated that the two are different forms of knowledge. Variance does not give us value ranking, individuals provide that.
I did not say that anything we did was unnatural. No, whether an action is moral does not depend on what it does to or for you, you have not proved that and many philosophies disagree with that statement. If you disagree with my assessment then prove morality in a manner where all premises must be accepted.
I called it "Institutional Regimentation" in my mind in the past.
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