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Graelwyn
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12 Sep 2007, 11:56 pm

MrMark wrote:
I think that love is what you desire, Graelwyn, though love and desire are not synonymous. I think that by defining it, you feel you can hold it, possess it. So it is with love. If we can define the person we love and our love for them, many of us often feel that we can hold them, possess them.


Don't presume to know what I desire or want, and do not presume to know my motives for wishing to know how others define love. You are not the Akashic records nor a fountain of all wisdom and knowledge. I see no need to turn a simple question into something personal.

anyway, onto something additional I have been thinking of:

Why is it that as soon as you get 'close' to someone, anger can step in so much more easily and totally obscure, even negate any feelings of love?

Can one say that love is still there for you if you have had a row and the person in that heated anger wishes you dead or feels total loathing for you? How can that be love?

To me, it negates the existence of that pure and constant thing I used to believe love to be and renders it pointless.



MrMark
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13 Sep 2007, 7:01 am

Graelwyn wrote:
MrMark wrote:
I think that love is what you desire, Graelwyn, though love and desire are not synonymous. I think that by defining it, you feel you can hold it, possess it. So it is with love. If we can define the person we love and our love for them, many of us often feel that we can hold them, possess them.


Don't presume to know what I desire or want, and do not presume to know my motives for wishing to know how others define love. You are not the Akashic records nor a fountain of all wisdom and knowledge. I see no need to turn a simple question into something personal.

anyway, onto something additional I have been thinking of:

Why is it that as soon as you get 'close' to someone, anger can step in so much more easily and totally obscure, even negate any feelings of love?

Can one say that love is still there for you if you have had a row and the person in that heated anger wishes you dead or feels total loathing for you? How can that be love?

To me, it negates the existence of that pure and constant thing I used to believe love to be and renders it pointless.

Well, I do not presume to know, I presume to think and express those thoughts.
MrMark wrote:
I think that...

I don't know what the Akashic records are. I don't think I'm a fountain of all wisdom and knowledge. I think I possess, or am possessed by, a little wisdom. Some people seem to agree. It wasn't my intention to turn it into something personal, despite the very personal nature of the discussion. There is the wider audience to think of here. I'm sorry if you took it personally. I apologize. Would I be correct to infer that you don't care for further input from me?


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myeyesseekreality
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13 Sep 2007, 2:13 pm

Love to me in a relationship sense is: deep caring, compromise, compatability, reciprocation, hot passionate sex, and comitment. There may be more, but that's what I think. The hardest part is compromise especially if a routine, and obsession are involved. Love is kind, understanding, strong, she stands by you, never insulting, listens, and takes you for who you are with all your faults. Love is rare if existant.



MrMark
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13 Sep 2007, 2:49 pm

myeyesseekreality wrote:
Love is kind, understanding, strong, she stands by you, never insulting, listens, and takes you for who you are with all your faults.

That's nice, and a little reminiscent of I Corinthians 13.


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Graelwyn
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13 Sep 2007, 6:01 pm

myeyesseekreality wrote:
Love to me in a relationship sense is: deep caring, compromise, compatability, reciprocation, hot passionate sex, and comitment. There may be more, but that's what I think. The hardest part is compromise especially if a routine, and obsession are involved. Love is kind, understanding, strong, she stands by you, never insulting, listens, and takes you for who you are with all your faults. Love is rare if existant.


I think the hardest part is, yes, to accept the other without trying to change them or wishing to change...but I suppose if you find the right person to begin with, you would instantly love them as they are anyway?

What I am really having a struggle to grasp here is how one can have faith in love, even believe in it, when it is so fickle and when you can love someone, yet in an argument etc, find that love overshadowed by anger... and others have experienced this overshadowing too...maybe I try to analyse emotions too much but I want to be able to understand them and have something there that is reliable in terms of being able to understand it.



MrMark
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13 Sep 2007, 6:53 pm

Acceptance. I think love is acceptance. Mother accepts her child unconditionally. She can be mad as hell about some of the things he does and still love him. "I love you, I just don't like some of the things you do." It helps to remember that what we do is not who we are.


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calandale
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13 Sep 2007, 6:59 pm

If one can't be judged by their
behavior, what can they be
judged by?

Some sort of mystical connection?



MrMark
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13 Sep 2007, 7:10 pm

"Judge not..."

Bear in mind, only perfect beings love perfectly. For the rest of us, imperfect love will have to do.


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calandale
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13 Sep 2007, 7:12 pm

Why should we all NOT be perfect?



MrMark
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13 Sep 2007, 7:15 pm

Nice work if you can get it.


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salsa
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13 Sep 2007, 7:25 pm

Quote:
Why is it that as soon as you get 'close' to someone, anger can step in so much more easily and totally obscure, even negate any feelings of love?

Can one say that love is still there for you if you have had a row and the person in that heated anger wishes you dead or feels total loathing for you? How can that be love?


good questions and answers are different for everybody. I f I love someone and he does something that hurts me deeply, I am like a wounded animal at times. I strike out to make the pain stop. I simply want the pain to go away. ... not the person , just the pain. and when in that state — temporarily — I will banish all reminders of that persons' energy in my life. And i might say this in words that hurt —— which I regret later.

For me, I''ve found that if I ride through the pain long enough anger's fire will cool, and then I will feel and see the love more clearly and in stark contrast. Although I do love unconditionally those that I love —— I accept who they are and don't want to change who they are — I will get angry at their actions that hurt me.

and sometime sthat anger is a mighty beast made all the mightier because I love. .... doesn't make sense I know.



calandale
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13 Sep 2007, 7:35 pm

calandale wrote:
Why should we all NOT be perfect?


What I mean is, why do we have to
see ourselves as flawed? Now, if we
have some sort of objective good,
without an almighty creator, I suppose
that this might follow. BUT, if we are
in a world of subjective morality, then
why not be happy with what we are? OR
if there is an omnipotent God, why do we
presume that He would make us less than
perfect?



Todd489
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13 Sep 2007, 7:45 pm

calandale wrote:
calandale wrote:
Why should we all NOT be perfect?


What I mean is, why do we have to
see ourselves as flawed? Now, if we
have some sort of objective good,
without an almighty creator, I suppose
that this might follow. BUT, if we are
in a world of subjective morality, then
why not be happy with what we are? OR
if there is an omnipotent God, why do we
presume that He would make us less than
perfect?


Are you saying that people should not constantly strive for self-improvement? That's ridiculous and backwards thinking. I've always thought that I can't be happy with myself until everyone else is miserable because they're not me. Because of this mentality I got a full ride scholarship to college, became the best guitarist in this town in under 3 years, lost upwards of 40 lbs, tripled the amount of weight I could bench-press, and made lots and lots of money by busting my ass and giving 110% at various jobs. If I thought like you did and accepted who I was, I'd still be the poor unattractive talentless loser I once was.

Now I ask you: which is better? The man who strives for perfection and does everything, or the man who lowers his standards of perfection to include his current state and does nothing?



calandale
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13 Sep 2007, 7:50 pm

Different solutions to the same
problem. As I said, WITHOUT an
overall good. Look, if I don't know
what is perfect, how does blindly
stumbling around improve me, when
I may already be so?

One MAY be improving themself by learning
not to reach for more than they have.



MrMark
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13 Sep 2007, 7:52 pm

calandale wrote:
calandale wrote:
Why should we all NOT be perfect?


What I mean is, why do we have tosee ourselves as flawed? Now, if we
have some sort of objective good,without an almighty creator, I suppose
that this might follow. BUT, if we arein a world of subjective morality, then
why not be happy with what we are? ORif there is an omnipotent God, why do we
presume that He would make us less than perfect?


I'm not clear enough about what you're saying to respond directly, but I'll say this: We don't live in the objective world. We live in a subjective world created by our minds. We take everything in and run it through all our filters and make all our judgments and our minds create the worlds we live in. To some George Bush is a villain. To others Osama bin Ladin is a villain. Still others think they're both villains. But they are who they are, just seen through different eyes, different minds. Personally, I try not to live in a world, (create a world in my mind,) populated by villains. That's why I say, "Nice work if you can get it."


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"The cordial quality of pear or plum
Rises as gladly in the single tree
As in the whole orchards resonant with bees."
- Emerson