6-Year-Old Autistic Student Criminally Charged

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Nafydalgol
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25 Sep 2007, 8:51 am

Is it also possible for someone to press charges against unborn foetuses in Bracken Country? Or should one be at least an infant to be liable to prosecution? What if a 1-year-old pulls another kid's hair or steals its feeding bottle, how would Bracken Country deal with hard core criminals like that? This article leaves so many questions... :?



nobodyzdream
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25 Sep 2007, 10:30 am

Kezzstar wrote:
Anyways, surely the parents had spoken to her and discussed methods of control?


I am curious about that. They said in the article that he can be whiny and all, and they have found a way to deal with it. Did they share how they deal with it with the teacher? If she approached it with another way, that could have set something off right there just due to the difference in response.


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nobodyzdream
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25 Sep 2007, 10:37 am

MrMacPhisto wrote:
Obviously the teacher said something that really upset him and she got a bit over the top with this he can't express how upset he is so he hit her I think the teacher is just as much in the wrong.


I agree-something HAD to lead up to it, but without knowing exactly how it all happened up to this point, I cannot say it's only the teacher or only the parents. I don't blame the child because somewhere along the line, somebody needed to sit down and talk with him about it, explain why not to behave in such a manner, etc. It doesn't seem this was done on anyone's part. Lack of communication on both parties seems to be the culprit. At least, just going off of the story and my own idea of what *might* have happened, lol.

Then, we have the problem of the teacher claiming he pulled her down onto the floor... hmmmm. That in itself gives me reason not to fully believe the teacher, lol. Maybe he caught her off guard and she tripped and fell onto the floor? Any teacher should be able to gain control over a small child and restore order in an efficient manner. Why did she go to the ground rather than standing firm and just telling him "no-please remove your hands from me" ...or something similar? Now, I know some children can have that kind of strength when it comes down to it, but I seriously doubt he did-mainly because he says he did not.

Regardless, this boy shouldn't be held criminally responsible. Kids throw temper tantrums every day. What SHOULD have been done was a parent/teacher/counsellor conference of some sort, to get a better idea of how these things should be handled, and it should have been done well before this point.


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serenity
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25 Sep 2007, 11:26 am

I'm sorry if I sound like a rambling smart*** here, but this is a subject that I know a lot about.
This kid HAD to have an Individual Education Plan to be in special ed. In the IEP there is supposed to be a section for behavior supports. It should outline in detail what forms of discipline is to be used, and when. AN IEP is a legal document that is not in any way open to interpretation. It is the school's job to anticipate problems, and set goals, and objectives for the individual child. We are talking about a moderately-severely autistic child here. You can't just sit down, and have a chat with him. He needs picture schedules, and social stories to communicate ideas, and thoughts. It's the school's responsibility to utilize these tools to help him be a successful student. If he is having violent meltdowns then there needs to be different stratagies to help him overcome the cause of the meltdowns. If he is barely verbal he isn't going to be able to say " it's unbearably loud in here, i need to take a break." He's gonna scream, and if she touches him he's gonna lash out. It sounds to me like the para in question was under the impression that his behavior was a lack of discipline, and he was just trying to make her day harder then it had to be. It's obvious that she took it personally, or she wouldn't be pressing charges against this kid. Behavior is communication for severely autistic kids.



ChelseaOcean
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25 Sep 2007, 11:32 am

I'm surprised it's even legal. In most states, children under seven can't be prosecuted, period, under any circumstances. (And children ages 7-11 *usually* can't be prosecuted, but a judge can rule that they are mature enough to have known what they were doing. Whereas children over 12 usually *can* be, but a judge can rule that they are *not* mature enough to have known what they were doing.)

That said, many schools have policies that they will *always* press charges if a student is violent, no exception. This may be one of those schools.



nobodyzdream
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25 Sep 2007, 11:34 am

serenity wrote:
I'm sorry if I sound like a rambling smart*** here, but this is a subject that I know a lot about.
This kid HAD to have an Individual Education Plan to be in special ed. In the IEP there is supposed to be a section for behavior supports. It should outline in detail what forms of discipline is to be used, and when. AN IEP is a legal document that is not in any way open to interpretation. It is the school's job to anticipate problems, and set goals, and objectives for the individual child. We are talking about a moderately-severely autistic child here. You can't just sit down, and have a chat with him. He needs picture schedules, and social stories to communicate ideas, and thoughts. It's the school's responsibility to utilize these tools to help him be a successful student. If he is having violent meltdowns then there needs to be different stratagies to help him overcome the cause of the meltdowns. If he is barely verbal he isn't going to be able to say " it's unbearably loud in here, i need to take a break." He's gonna scream, and if she touches him he's gonna lash out. It sounds to me like the para in question was under the impression that his behavior was a lack of discipline, and he was just trying to make her day harder then it had to be. It's obvious that she took it personally, or she wouldn't be pressing charges against this kid. Behavior is communication for severely autistic kids.


Oh, most definitely. The part I'm having difficulty with is we all know what SHOULD be done, but the question is "WAS it done?" I've seen kids thrown into special areas, or left in regular classes even after diagnoses of sorts. It's ultimately up to how thoroughly they bother to do it. Just as a shrink can throw a label on ya after seeing you for half an hour, without knowing for sure what is going on, a school can do with you what they think is best, and only adhere to their own standards. Granted, things are *supposed* to be done certain ways, but there are a lot of things that are supposed to have set guidelines and they are commonly broken.

Papers go into the record and they deal with things according to how they perceive them. Not necessarily the legal ways it should be done. I cannot count how many times I've told my son's school that I don't want him to have milk, but what does he get every single day? Milk with lunch. I've got it written on every single form that they have me fill out. So they have the paperwork, they have my instruction, they have doctor notes all documented, but it still happens every day. Not once have they asked me about discipline, but on more than one occasion I have talked with his teachers about these things. They say okay, they write it down, they document it, but when things roll around again next time, it's the same response as was before.

Why is this? People in every position assume that they know what they are doing, or like to think that they are in control. They keep the paperwork so that they can look back when something has happened it seems, and say "oh yeah, you DID mention that!" lol, seems that is the only bind to it in a lot of schools.

For all we know, this kid could have a file folder FULL of ways to handle him... but we don't know who all has actually taken the time to look through them. Sure, it is documented, sure it is there and should be available if needed, sure it's her JOB to know these things... But most teachers will still respond on impulse, or will respond in ways that they typically deal with a given situation before they will have time to go find the folder to see if they have forgotten something. It's all probably right there in a folder at the school, possibly sitting right on top of her desk, but who knows. If she'd taken the time to look through it as thoroughly as she *should*, then why has it come to this? It should have been able to be handled in an appropriate manner right there. He may not be able to tell her why he is doing what he is doing, why he's uncomfortable, but it doesn't mean he cannot understand what she is telling him, or that she cannot guide him in a better direction with his frustration. ...but she didn't. Which leads me to believe that the files are just sitting there collecting dust.


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Last edited by nobodyzdream on 25 Sep 2007, 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

ChatBrat
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25 Sep 2007, 11:34 am

You're right Serenity, I forgot all about the IEP. Ya know, I keep thinking that even if this child was normal, how can a grown adult woman press charges against him? He's only 6. Isn't this just crazy? I just can't believe it.

BTW, what is a para?



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25 Sep 2007, 12:20 pm

MAN! They should THROW THAT PERSON IN JAIL and THROW AWAY THE KEY! I am SICK of this garbage! What a waste of tax payers money! Why do they even have Nathan going to school where he obviously can't learn anything!

The NERVE of them calling Schiltz a teacher! BTW if you haven't got the idea, I am saying Schiltz should be locked up and FINED for every penny she got in such an "endeavor".

Heck, *I* could probably have a fun time with kids, and keep them happy. I don't for 3 reasons:

1. I am often not good with them.
2. people like Schiltz make it harder for people like me.
3. Overall I would hate it because of 1 and 2.

So WHY do they allow Schiltz to do it?