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aspergers_patrick
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31 Jul 2005, 7:40 am

I hope this will not offend anybody. But I have noticed a majority of non-aspergians on this website. Especially those having a "Have Aspergers - Undiagnosed" certification in their profiles. Also to say, I believe there are around only 200 aspergians on this website. Not necessarily do they talk much, whereas I notice an influx of Neurotypical activities presiding on the Forums.



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31 Jul 2005, 8:47 am

Please do not feed the troll.


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31 Jul 2005, 9:43 am

aspergers_patrick wrote:
But I have noticed a majority of non-aspergians on this website.


I don´t think your conclusion is right.

Having a diagnosis AS or ASD doesn´t prove you´re really AS/ASD, though this is probably the case, but the expert may be wrong
Not having a dx AS/ASD doesn´t prove you´re not AS/ASD, because if you don´t try getting a dx, you don´t get one even if you are.
Even if you tried getting a dx and you didn´t get one the so called expert may be wrong, in which case you are.
If you think you´re NT, you´re probably not AS, but you may be wrong.
If you´re family member of AS, you have a higher risk of being actually one yourself.

Sorry I am just a mathematician. This is the way my brain works.

I´m not offended by your post. I´m only searching for answers, thats why I am visiting this site. I think this is the case for a lot of members.

Can you tell how you actually calculated the number of 200?

Assuming you´re right, what is your point? Should all non-aspersians be banned from the site?



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31 Jul 2005, 9:53 am

Quote:
Please do not feed the troll.



Yeah, besides, if you do, they'll just keep coming back.



*Note: This excludes trolls of the Russ and treasure variety.

Image


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renaeden
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31 Jul 2005, 10:08 am

aspergers_patrick wrote:
I notice an influx of Neurotypical activities presiding on the Forums.

What are these "Neurotypical activities"?



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31 Jul 2005, 10:12 am

In no way am I trying to feed any trolls, but I do have the need to comment on this thread. I am just expressing my honest opinion. By the way, when I first encountered this thread I suspected that the first post may in fact simply be an effort to troll.

I told my doc once that when I have gone into some autism chatrooms that it seems that a lot of the people there who claim to be Aspies talk in a very neurotypical manner and just can't seem to understand some of the Asperger's related things I try to communicate about, often giving me very neurotypical replies and suggestions. He told me that some people may just think that autistic is the in thing to be at the time. With that said...

I think there are some people that have wrongly self-DX's themselves for whatever reason and some that have accurately done so. From my perspective I often see it as if someone does not have the same traits that I do, to the same degree, then they can't possibly be an Aspie. My companion/caregiver says I am using myself as a point of reference. In my mind I know that not all Aspies are at the same point on the spectrum. While I may need help with my basic needs and am unable to live independently, there are Aspies that are. I also suspect that many who are DX'd with AS do not understand how someone can be affected it by it to the point of needing assisted living, even though such a thing is not uncommon with Asperger's.

Before I applied for disability, I read many claims that it is very hard for people with Asperger's to get disability. My doctors, however, told me to apply, one saying I would have it within a month and another simply saying that I need it. It took about 3 weeks for me to get approved and another week to get my first check. Social Security's findings stated that I am "severely disabled by Asperger's Syndrome." A case worker said it was the fastest she has ever seen anyone get approved. This, however, does not mean that everyone DX'd with AS (self-DX'd ot professionally) is "severely disabled" by it. Some may have more degrees of difficulties in some areas and less in others and I understand that. I also want others to understand the fact that what they may take for granted, many Aspies, such as myself, are simply unable to do.

I have observed that some people seem to think there is a certain prestige to being an Aspie. These are people who seem to have never really experienced the negative aspects of the reality of actually being one and can't seem to easilly relate to experiences that are connected to such negative aspects. If there is any prestige to being an Aspie, that prestige is primarily earned, not claimed.

I think overall, that if someone believes they are autistic, that belief should be founded on a history of their entire life and not simply how they have felt at certain times, in certain situations. Just because someone shows a high degree of intelligence, or is uncomfortable in certain social situations does not mean they are an Aspie. And just because one person finds it easier to make eye contact than another does not mean that person is not an Aspie. I also believe that if anyone has any doubts as to whether, or not they are an Aspie that they may want to see a doctor and get a professional opinion. Of course, seeing a doctor involves honesty and revealing things that you may not want to reveal to anyone. Some may want to avoid a professional DX because they know they won't get a DX of Asperger's anyhow. Some may want to avoid a professional DX because they don't want to reveal certain things, or they are afraid of what might happen to them. Some simply may not feel as if they need a professional DX and many who think this are probably right. For some people a professional DX can have a direct impact on their quality of life (such as myself), for others it won't do anything at all to benefit them. It's all relevant and at the same time irrelevant to the quality of these forums.

My point is that sure there are people who (for whatever reasons) claim to be Aspies and they really aren't, just as there are Aspies that chose not to reveal it to anyone and others that know they are, but don't desire a professional opinion. The ones making false claims may have other conditions they are unaware of that influence those claims (why would anyone even want to make such claims unless they had other issues anyhow?). As far as judging who is making false claims and who isn't: that requires more knowledge of a person than some posts on a public forum. Also, I don't think that anyone on the higher end of the spectrum should be compared to anyone on the lower end of it, although making such comparissons is almost certainly unavoidable, especially for many Aspies. Everytime I was in an autism chatroom and I communicated that I thought a certain person was not an Aspie, I got lectured on how not all Aspies are the same. It took me a long time to understand that. It is just like the fact that some Aspies have amazing mathmatical abilities, but no one can say another person isn't an Aspie simply because they can't instantly calculate Pi to the 21st power. I think the same probably applies for other things as well, such as social and communication abilities.

*You have been listening to the voice of LOGIC.*

Sometimes being verbally gifted sucks.


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Last edited by DeepThought on 31 Jul 2005, 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

DeepThought
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31 Jul 2005, 10:19 am

Also, remember that many other conditions share certain traist with Asperger's. Some people who may have wrongly self-DX'd themselves with AS, may have simply overlooked another condition, which is why I say if someone is in doubt they should consider seeing a doctor. They may genuinely believe they are Aspie's and even if they did get DX'd with something else I don't think that should be reason to exclude them from here.


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31 Jul 2005, 12:47 pm

Great post, DeepThought!



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31 Jul 2005, 12:58 pm

DeepThought wrote:
Also, I don't think that anyone on the higher end of the spectrum should be compared to anyone on the lower end of it, although making such comparissons is almost certainly unavoidable, especially for many Aspies. Everytime I was in an autism chatroom and I communicated that I thought a certain person was not an Aspie, I got lectured on how not all Aspies are the same. It took me a long time to understand that. It is just like the fact that some Aspies have amazing mathmatical abilities, but no one can say another person isn't an Aspie simply because they can't instantly calculate Pi to the 21st power. I think the same probably applies for other things as well, such as social and communication abilities.


I agree with nearly your entire post, but I did have to take issue (because that's what I do :) ) with the statement that people on the "higher end" should not be compared to people on the "lower end". I think most autistic people have some commonalities, and that in fact the "high/low" stuff is mainly based on a couple superficial traits that non-autistic people have made very important, rather than always being based in an actual difference between two people.

For instance, I have a friend who attended an autism conference and sat on a panel. She said she had much more in common with the guy on the panel who was labeled low-functioning, than the guy on the panel who was labeled high-functioning, despite the fact that she is (at least today) labeled high-functioning. This makes sense to me because I don't think that what other people see as "functioning level" is more than one or two traits taken out of context and amplified in their importance.

I've been professionally classified as both, and prefer to be classified as neither. I agreed with most of the rest of your post, but wanted to make this clear because of the fact that I don't like the idea of people having to restrict who they compare themselves to based on who else think someone is on which end of the spectrum or somesuch. I do think there can be significant differences between autistic people, and also that people should be careful to remember that there are these differences and that something easy for them or hard-but-doable for them may be impossible for someone else, or vice-versa. But I think that statement only works on the single-skill level and breaks down when describing the whole person's "functioning level" if that makes any sense.


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31 Jul 2005, 1:05 pm

What do trolls eat anyway?!


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31 Jul 2005, 1:12 pm

Trolls eat flames. I think productive discussion tastes very bad to them.


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Grey
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31 Jul 2005, 3:00 pm

anbuend wrote:
Trolls eat flames. I think productive discussion tastes very bad to them.


And I think this has been a very productive discussion, particularly the posts from Deepthought and the response to it by anbuend.

As I was an adult by the time Aspergers was recognized, there was no chance for me to be diganosed as a child. I knew that I was different, but I couldn't figure out why I had such a hard time with the sorts of social things that others found easy.

As an adult, I've learned to adapt somewhat, although I'm still an odd duck.

I've looked into getting a formal diagnosis, largely because my aspie traits were getting the better or me lately, but it seems to me that a lot of the focus is on AS as a juvenile learning disorder and there isn't much in the way of support or acknowledgement in the professional community that AS is a lifelong situation.

I did get a referral to a therapist or two, but, and this is my aspie side coming out, I never followed through because the therapists would never answer their phones. I really dislike leaving messages on answering machines. I get anxious and can't figure out what to say and I think I end up sounding stupid.

I think I generally pass for "slightly eccentric" among NTs, and I have a hard time talking about the aspie traits I possess because I've spent so many years hiding them from NTs so they wouldn't think I was different or crazy.

Other than knowing for certain, I'm not sure what good it would do me to have a formal diagnosis. There's not going to be a cure. I don't want, and in general, I don't think I need medication. All I really need is to better understand my condition and find better ways to compensate for the traits that give me trouble.

I'm doing better recently, I've worked through some aspie issues and I've improved my life. I no longer think I need to get a dx or seek professional help to find the answers I need. Whether or not I'm really an aspie, addressing my situation as if I had the syndrome has helped me find solutions.

I would like to get dx'd just to satisfy my curriosity. Because I don't have a formal dx, I don't feel that I can publicly claim to be an aspie. It would be nice to know "for sure" but it's too difficult to worry about for the limited payoff.

And as has been pointed out, getting a dx or not is not really proof that one has the disorder. I've read enough about AS that I could probably go into a professional and start talking about mind blindness and sensory overload and executive disfunction, in a monotone voice of course, and convince him or her that I had AS whether or not I really do.

Even though I haven't been formally dx'd, I still feel a kinship with the other posters on this board. I feel comfortable here. I'll read a post and think "Ah, there's somebody else that feels exactly the same way" or "Yup, that's just how it is for me too." Even for posters for whom I don't share exactly the sort or depth of experiences, I can see that their experiences make sense to me. I can emphathise with them, because their experiences seem logical to me.

Grey


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Last edited by Grey on 31 Jul 2005, 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rumio
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31 Jul 2005, 3:09 pm

Grey wrote:
Even though I haven't been formally dx'd, I still feel a kinship with the other posters on this board. I feel comfortable here. I'll read a post and think "Ah, there's somebody else that feels exactly the same way" or "Yup, that's just how it is for me too." Even for posters for whom I don't share exactly the sort or depth of experiences, I can see that their experiences make sense to me. I can emphathise with them, because their experiences seem logical to me.

Grey


this says pretty much everything I would want to say on the subject

I've been in many situations that were supposed to be 'communities' and I can see how they were for other folk there but they never really were for me; WP is the first time in my life I've felt a real sense of what a community is


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aspergers_patrick
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31 Jul 2005, 3:59 pm

Aspergers is a PDD disorder, meaning there are more than a few traits. It's easy for Neurotypicals to assume one of several or several characteristics of having AS to self-diagnose themselves. You also get those who walk around telling people they have this disorder when they don't. I had strong theories that I had it, and, until I got diagnosed I gave up and became paranoid. Aspergers is extremely hard to diagnose, but, those who have it, don't need a label to certify them. It makes me feel embarrassed that we have some people with pictures, pulling retarded poses whilst self-diagnosing themselves as AS. It just doesn't make sense. I have always had problems socially, but, rather than being aware of these, I just carried on until I realized there must of been something wrong, to why everyone picked on me and it was designated that I had social and communication difficulties. Besides the point, let us be simple here, and not discreet. Actions do not always qualify something to do with somebody's intelligence, but rather, it is that action which is either Morally correct or Defineably correct. E.g: "I presume I have AS / "I have AS". It doesn't make sense, the only sense that is made is beyond my understanding of what AS is, rather than who has it.



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31 Jul 2005, 4:57 pm

This is a case where only someone trained in giving a diagnosis should judge. Not a member of this forum, unless the person is blatantly causing issues. What's the matter? Some NTs might actually be here to learn more and then to discriminate against those that have '(Gender) - Undiagnosed) doesn't mean they would be any less Aspie than you. Some people don't seek out a formal diagnosis due to their situation and such. If it's not going to benefit them by doing so... what's the point? You still going to judge them as 'fakes' for doing so. I see this as just another one of the posts that tend to create divisions rather than unity in the Aspie community.



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31 Jul 2005, 5:11 pm

anbuend wrote:
I agree with nearly your entire post, but I did have to take issue (because that's what I do :) ) with the statement that people on the "higher end" should not be compared to people on the "lower end". I think most autistic people have some commonalities, and that in fact the "high/low" stuff is mainly based on a couple superficial traits that non-autistic people have made very important, rather than always being based in an actual difference between two people.


Yes, I agree that there are commonalities, but did not go into that. When I refered to the high/low stuff I was mainly trying to talk about functionality-wise, where people lower on the spectrum are going to have more difficulties in certain areas that people on the higher end have less difficulties in. Of course these areas of difficulties vary from person to person. As far as commonalities shared by auts, these are in part what separates autism from other conditions, however, certain other conditions do have similar traits, although many of the traits that are common across the autism spectrum are missing.

Hope that makes some sense, basically I am just posting my thoughts on this and I know everyone may see it differently.


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Too old for a sailin', too young fo' the sea;
Set sail fo' a sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be.