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DeepThought
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31 Jul 2005, 5:13 pm

MishLuvsHer2Boys wrote:
This is a case where only someone trained in giving a diagnosis should judge. Not a member of this forum, unless the person is blatantly causing issues. What's the matter? Some NTs might actually be here to learn more and then to discriminate against those that have '(Gender) - Undiagnosed) doesn't mean they would be any less Aspie than you. Some people don't seek out a formal diagnosis due to their situation and such. If it's not going to benefit them by doing so... what's the point? You still going to judge them as 'fakes' for doing so. I see this as just another one of the posts that tend to create divisions rather than unity in the Aspie community.


Hey Mish! Actually this thread hasn't turned out as bad as I personally thought it would when I first encountered it.


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azalynn
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31 Jul 2005, 5:59 pm

Well, as of right now I am one of those with the "Have Asperger's - Undiagnosed" in my profile. I agree that AS can be difficult to diagnose, and that it is a property of neural wiring rather than a piece of paper -- being an Aspie is not like getting a college diploma! Nevertheless, I am undergoing diagnosis now. I actually thought I was perfectly "normal" for years -- it was Everyone Else that was strange and unpredictable. I never understood why my acting naturally caused people to react badly or mock me, etc. I had fairly poor self observation skills (apparently) and used to argue as a youngster when people called me "bizarre". I was sent to therapists for years where I just sat there talking about how I had no idea why I'd been sent to therapy because I was perfectly sane / normal. Really, for most of my life I could not figure out why everyone kept poking and prodding at me mentally. I was sent to a special-education preschool and to the Resource Room as a kid, as well as a special "intervention" summer camp -- again, at the time, I had no idea why.

The AS realization has come upon me as a result of various relatives, people I have known for a long time, etc. coming across articles about AS or knowing someone with AS and seeing commonalities between them and me. I have only recently (as in, during the past year) begun to accept that I really AM different -- and that the description of many Aspies in childhood fits me better than anything I have ever come across. Therefore, when my doctor tells me she is 95% sure I have AS (as she did this past Friday) I tend to think that yes, I HAVE found the answer to why I have never really felt like a member of the rest of the human race. I could go on second-guessing, but what would be the point? I basically have an unofficial professional diagnosis now and should have one on paper by September. I am rather curious as to whether I come across as NT or not -- I would imagine "not" since practically everyone who has ever interacted with me over the long term has expressed puzzlement at my very being.

In regards to posters on this forum: I still feel as if I am intruding a bit since I am rather new, but I do not feel alienated. I can identify with much of what is posted. I think that simply by virtue of the site's name and focus, it is highly unlikely that it will become an NT playground. There are so many other sites on the net that would probably be much more appealing to NTs. I would not worry about self-diagnosed Aspies -- really, I do not go around trying to spot "fakes" because I have better things to think about. I also do not understand why anyone who really doesn't fit into a community of Aspies would even want to or attempt to -- what would be the point? I'd imagine they would be bored.



jmatucd
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31 Jul 2005, 6:22 pm

Quote:
Some may want to avoid a professional DX because they know they won't get a DX of Asperger's anyhow. Some may want to avoid a professional DX because they don't want to reveal certain things, or they are afraid of what might happen to them. Some simply may not feel as if they need a professional DX and many who think this are probably right. For some people a professional DX can have a direct impact on their quality of life (such as myself), for others it won't do anything at all to benefit them. It's all relevant and at the same time irrelevant to the quality of these forums.


I share in the sentiments above. I live in california, there is the possibility I will have many rights taken away due to a DX. When I look at the criteria I can easily see I match it. When I take those silly tests online I always match it (easily surpass any threshold they say denotes AS). However, its when I come here and look at everyone's life experiences and their behaviors and I think to myself... thats how I was several years ago and thats how I am now... and then I think whether or not I will share in the experiences of those who are older than me (I'm 20) when I grow in age.

You can use the DSM all you want (it seems effective), but the surest way is to compare your past and the present to see how others think and how their experiences match yours. Only here have I found any sense of solidarity or connectedness.


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31 Jul 2005, 6:49 pm

DeepThought wrote:
*You have been listening to the voice of LOGIC.*


And BOY, do I appreciate it! :D


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anbuend
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31 Jul 2005, 7:17 pm

jmatucd wrote:
You can use the DSM all you want (it seems effective), but the surest way is to compare your past and the present to see how others think and how their experiences match yours. Only here have I found any sense of solidarity or connectedness.


That sort of thing is how I figured out I was autistic.

I was professionally diagnosed long before I grasped that I was autistic.

When I did grasp that I was autistic, I could not do it by comparing myself to the criteria based on the observations and interpretations of non-autistic people, and these interpretations are of behavior of mine that I did not know I showed because I didn't know what I looked like on the outside. I now know that I meet the criteria, but that's pretty much incidental. What's important are that my inward experiences match the inward experiences of other auties, which is how I really and fully grasped that I was autistic.


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31 Jul 2005, 7:45 pm

Just because someone has a degree hanging on their wall, that doesn't mean they have the experience to diagnose an ASD. I have met too many who think they can (one who actually was fresh out of med school!).

And just because you don't have a degree hanging on your wall, doesn't mean that you can't be right with a suspected diagnosis. Many of the adult Aspies I've talked to started out doing their own research and then moved on to seek diagnosis. I am one of them.

But the best way, if you suspect you have AS and want confirmation, go to a professional with a LOT of experience with HF-ASD adults.

There are some people who can be totally off with their self-dx of AS or any other disorder. And there are those who are correct. It all depends on the person and how well they know themselves and the disorder.

Before I received professional confirmation of Aspergers, I would only claim that I am suspected of having Aspergers.


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31 Jul 2005, 8:08 pm

I have a bit of a 'mental block' about 'labelling' myself or doing a 'self-DX', because I am inherently sceptical of self-diagnosis and the risk of hypochondria or self-delusion.

I could either be borderline PD, or else I could be AS. Or I could be imagining the whole thing, and what I need is a good kick up the rear and to be told to 'get on with it'.

When I first heard of AS/ASD, I was intrigued because much of it seemed to 'ring a bell'. I do not have the major Sensory issues that those who are on the AS Spectrum report, nor do I have any remarkable mathematical talents, nor any Synesthaesia. In fact, whatever 'talent' I may possess runs more to the 'verbal' than anything else. The only claim to 'sensory' issues are things I have mentioned before - finding it very difficult to be stress-free and to focus when there is either sudden noise, uncomfortable noise, or lots of people talking at once, for example when being in a bar or pub, or even being in a classroom setting and people chattering among themselves.

I took online tests (which would be easy to 'fake' to produce 'aspie-like' traits, if there was an emotional need to do so), but what has really kept me thinking that I may have AS/ASD is the correlation between people's posts here and elsewhere, and my own life experiences.

I mentioned elsewhere that I spoke to one of my brothers about it explaining to him the possibility of my self-delusion, perhaps based on the desire to camouflage a monstrously sociopathic narcissistic personality, together with the diagnostic criteria (which could be fairly considered indecipherable to anyone who is not a Mental Health professional), along with my own reasons for thinking I might have it, as well as the similarities to other people's experiences who are diagnosed AS/ASD.

It is for my brother's accepting the possibility, as well as the similarities of experiences I have already mentioned, that I think I may have it, as well as the fact of years and years of raking over 'past experiences' in a 'psychotherapeutic' context which has proven to be utterly futile and probably more damaging than ignoring things. Having said all that, I won't go down the route of 'self-DX' until either a). I am far more convinced of having AS/ASD than I currently am or b). I simply cannot get a formal DX due to financial costs or lack of expertise from health professionals in the UK.



nayashi
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31 Jul 2005, 8:49 pm

Many of the Have Asperger's - Undiagnosed people here come here for that reason. Because they're not quite secure with it or something...

I suppose.


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31 Jul 2005, 11:21 pm

PaulB wrote:
Please do not feed the troll.

You're absolutely right. We have a troll among us!
Image
Stephen Cosgrove wrote:
Treasure TrollsTM

A long time ago, deep in a shadowy glade, there lived fairy-like creatures called Treasure TrollsTM. Their laughter tinkled like tiny silver bells as they scampered about fern and foilage [sic] searching for jewels called WishstonesTM.

Now they weren't always this happy. In fact, they used to be downright sad and they would have been sad to this very day, save for one little Troll who found a WishstoneTM glistening in a bubbling brook. She picked it up, held it to her belly, and sang this simple wishsong, "Tinkle, twinkle, hair so fuzzy, Tinkle Twinkle bees go buzzy, Wish I may, Wish I might, have the wish I wish tonight." With a poof and a puff and in a twist of light so bright, that simple troll was magically transformed into a Treasure TrollTM. From then and thereafter, any troll that found a WishstoneTM was delightfully transformed into a Treasure TrollTM.

Now all of the Treasure TrollsTM are wishing on their WishstonesTM that your wishes can come true.



jmatucd
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01 Aug 2005, 1:41 am

Quote:
I mentioned elsewhere that I spoke to one of my brothers about it explaining to him the possibility of my self-delusion, perhaps based on the desire to camouflage a monstrously sociopathic narcissistic personality, together with the diagnostic criteria (which could be fairly considered indecipherable to anyone who is not a Mental Health professional), along with my own reasons for thinking I might have it, as well as the similarities to other people's experiences who are diagnosed AS/ASD.


I share in your fear


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DeepThought
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01 Aug 2005, 8:08 am

jmatucd wrote:
Quote:
Some may want to avoid a professional DX because they know they won't get a DX of Asperger's anyhow. Some may want to avoid a professional DX because they don't want to reveal certain things, or they are afraid of what might happen to them. Some simply may not feel as if they need a professional DX and many who think this are probably right. For some people a professional DX can have a direct impact on their quality of life (such as myself), for others it won't do anything at all to benefit them. It's all relevant and at the same time irrelevant to the quality of these forums.


I share in the sentiments above. I live in california, there is the possibility I will have many rights taken away due to a DX. When I look at the criteria I can easily see I match it. When I take those silly tests online I always match it (easily surpass any threshold they say denotes AS). However, its when I come here and look at everyone's life experiences and their behaviors and I think to myself... thats how I was several years ago and thats how I am now... and then I think whether or not I will share in the experiences of those who are older than me (I'm 20) when I grow in age.

You can use the DSM all you want (it seems effective), but the surest way is to compare your past and the present to see how others think and how their experiences match yours. Only here have I found any sense of solidarity or connectedness.


Before I was DX'd I always felt like I would never be able to have a wife, or children. My DX helped me understand why, although once I got Social Security it did make it so that I can't get married as long I receive benefits. In my perspective, me getting married would be the same as me trying to have a pet. The pet would get neglected, remain caged and eventually find a way to escape to get as far away as possible. I won't get a pet because I know it is better for the animal that I don't. The same with a wife and kids. It seems sad at times, but it's just a reality that I have to accept. I sometimes have a lot trouble coming to terms with all of this, but at least now I know why. I don't feel like I have lost any of my rights because of my DX. It has actually helped a lot because without it I would have just continued to require financial support from anyone who was willing to provide until they grew tired of me and I had to find someone else to help. It has made me feel less burdensome on my mom (who supported me until I was about 36).


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Set sail fo' a sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be.


DeepThought
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01 Aug 2005, 8:22 am

Page 2 of this thread is taking an unbearable amount of time to load, making it hard to reply to posts...


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The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they call me,
Too old for a sailin', too young fo' the sea;
Set sail fo' a sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be.


anbuend
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01 Aug 2005, 8:38 am

DeepThought wrote:
Page 2 of this thread is taking an unbearable amount of time to load, making it hard to reply to posts...


I noticed that. It's been doing that since yesterday. Not sure why.

At least it is loading, though. There are other threads I wanted to read but have never been able to because no matter how long I give them, they never load. :|


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aspergers_patrick
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01 Aug 2005, 9:14 am

It makes people more paranoid if they assume something. Aspergers is a complex disorder, unlike Autism, as many Aspergians seem to be normal, but ofcourse, have qualitative impairments in things that should come naturally to people. Though many can learn and become more sophisticated socially and that way they decrease symptoms of AS.



DeepThought
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01 Aug 2005, 10:21 am

Me thinks it may be the troll...

Literally...

The troll pic may be slowing down the page.


Anyhow...

Part of the point of this site is for all of us to share experiences and interests, it doesn't really matter who is certain of their DX, or not. For me, I knew before my official DX. As soon as I read about HFA, I knew (I did not know about AS until later). There was no doubt.

adversarial,

I understand what you are saying and this is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Whether you are an Aspie, or not you relate to certain things that people who definitely are also experience, which means there are things that you do understand. There are also things that you don't understand (not possible without experiencing it), just as many Aspies experience, or have experienced things that I don't fully understand. That's fine and that's what this place is all about.

Many of us have no other social outlets, but we desire some sort of social interaction. Our attempts at such interaction usually have repeatedly ended miserably. This is a place where we should all be comfortable to be ourselves. Some may learn more about themselves from others here. Some may just like knowing that they are not alone.

There is always some sort of balance in everything. People who demonstrate exceptional abilities are also going to be balanced with more disability in other areas, whether they are aware of it, or not. It is a matter of balance and balance is critical in everything.

I require assisted living. For me, Asperger's is as much of a disability as it is an ability. This is hard for me to comprehend at times. I get stressed out trying to think about how I have to have help from others just to survive, but I can compose an entire CD's worth of material in the amount of time it takes to listen to one (when I feel like doing so). I have really poor math skills, but I can tell someone the total price of their groceries within a few cents after just seeing what is in the cart. To me, it makes no sense and the more I try to understand it, the harder it is to understand. So, any ability that I have is offset by an equal inability. I think that there are some things that just need to be accepted and even, dare I say, enjoyed. There is always a balance, sometimes we just don't see it.

I would not wish my difficulties on anyone. Just this morning I melted down. During the meltdown I came to the conclusion that there is no such thing as empathy. No one is able to totally understand how another person feels, NT, or not. I have told my mom that I wished she could just be inside of my body for a few minutes, long enough to experience what I experience. Some Aspies here can easilly relate to some of my experiences, others can't. It doesn't matter. Just because someone doesn't understand why I am unable to simply call someone in my family to say hi, or why I can't calm myself down, does not mean they are not Aspies themselves. Sometimes I get offended by these suggestions because I expect them to understand and at times it makes the people who make such suggestions seem very NT to me, because these are things that NTs say. That does not mean they are not Aspies, they just don't comprehend something that I have more difficulties with than them, because they have not experienced it. The best I can do is try to explain. The best they can do is try to understand, or at the very least respect my explanation. If they were to continue to offer me solutions and clearly were not listening to what I was trying to say, then I would be more inclined to get frustrated and think more seriously that they are in fact NTs. HOWEVER, Aspies can also be persistant and try to force their viewpoints on others. SO, there we have the problem! The people that may appear very NT-like to some Aspies, may in fact be showing some Aspie traits. That's why you just can't come to a place like this and post things that say you have counted 200 people that you are sure are Aspies and the rest are not. In reality, few of us here really know each other and non of us here are in any position to judge anyone that we do not know.

If someone only thinks they are an Aspie, then that is what they should say. No one here should PM anyone to interrogate them about why they think so. No one here should be keeping a record of how many people they suspect are Aspies, or not, because in reality, as I just said, they do not know. Besides, at the end of the stressful day, WHO THE HECK CARES?!

I had to post all of this because it takes way too long to load this page, so I tried to cover everything I could possibly want to add to this thread in one post.


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Too old for a sailin', too young fo' the sea;
Set sail fo' a sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be.


DeepThought
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01 Aug 2005, 10:22 am

Ahhh, page 3... Please, no more troll pics. :roll:


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The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they call me,
Too old for a sailin', too young fo' the sea;
Set sail fo' a sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be.