Since When Do Vaccines have MERCURY in Them?!

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The problem, jj, is that you really think that what people are upset with you over is that you hold the opinion that vaccines containing ethylmercury are bad for the central nervous system. This is not the main point of contention.

What we take issue with is that the "evidence" that you present for it is just plain shoddy, your reasoning is poor, and your behavior is disrespectful.

We don't take issue with your central point, jj. What we take issue with is everything else.

Including, in my case, you.

The problem, jj, is that you really think that what people are upset with you over is that you hold the opinion that vaccines containing ethylmercury are bad for the central nervous system. This is not the main point of contention.

What we take issue with is that the "evidence" that you present for it is just plain shoddy, your reasoning is poor, and your behavior is disrespectful.

We don't take issue with your central point, jj. What we take issue with is everything else.

Including, in my case, you.

No. What you have a problem with is changing your mindset. That's what's causing you fear. I'm merely a conduit in the equation for change. You are scared out of your minds that you'll have to reconsider everything you've ever been taught and you resort to childish name calling and bullying the very behavior you whine about in other threads. So in fact you're also hypocritical. But that goes along with the rest of the pathology. I'm not in the least surprised either way. So go run along back to your comfort zones of gaming and distractions - just so you don't EVER have to deal with reality. I'm so hip to this, I just laugh in the face of adversity - and say - been there, done that, you're nothing more than an old, old cliche'. And that you will remain.

One of the weirdest aspects of this battle has been the fact that the “experts” have put themselves in the ridiculous position of saying pregnant women and children should not eat certain mercury-tainted fish or use mercury thermometers, but it is okay to inject mercury directly into the bodies of babies.

All this because ethylmercury (the form of mercury found in thimerosal) and methylmercury are different.

In fact, “mercury in any form is toxic”. ..
Thimerosal has been shown to be toxic to brain cells. (Haley)

Mice injected with thimerosal develop autism-like symptoms. (Hornig)

The FDA, as reported in the Federal Register, even declared thimerosal to be unsafe in 1982, calling for its removal in over-the-counter products. Why didn’t they do the same for vaccines, which unlike the topical products removed are injected directly into the body?

Meanwhile, more recently (2004), the Institute of Medicine (IOM) attempted to close the book on this issue, in spite of compelling biological evidence that thimerosal is likely involved. Why would they use epidemiological data which in the case of their autism data did not include any comparisons to children exposed to zero mercury in vaccines? Why did they do this when it contradicted their own earlier worrisome (and until recently secret) data that did include such comparisons? And why did they use this suspect epidemiological data to trump solid biological evidence?

How could they so cavalierly dismiss evidence that not only implicated thimerosal in autism, but explained how thimerosal could damage some children and not others?

Moreover, if they were so enamored with epidemiological studies, why didn't the “experts” insist that studies comparing the vaccinated to the never vaccinated be conducted? (Instead they lumped those with allegedly zero exposure to thimerosal with those with as much as 37.5 micrograms.)

Even if the evidence against there being a relationship, however, was as strong as the IOM contended, there was still no reason to discourage research into this area, as the IOM so callously did. After all, little is ever “proved” in science. Evidence, more or less strong or weak, is usually simply presented which supports or contradicts a hypothesis. Even under the best of circumstances, one might never be able to say with absolute certainty that the mercury in thimerosal causes autism. That doesn’t mean, however, that evidence does not exist.

Children with autism appear to be unable to rid their bodies of the mercury that they are exposed to. (Deth et al, Holmes et al)

Some populations that have not been exposed to vaccines experience little, if any, autism. (Olmsted 1, 2)

Coincident with the decline in thimerosal use in vaccinations for infants and children, the incidence of autism appears to be declining as well, at least in California. (safeMinds)

Whether or not other vaccine-associated adverse effects are similarly being ignored and dismissed, with the autism issue at least, there are just too many parents convinced that vaccines played a role. And they simply cannot be made to go away.

No. What you have a problem with is changing your mindset. That's what's causing you fear. I'm merely a conduit in the equation for change. You are scared out of your minds that you'll have to reconsider everything you've ever been taught and you resort to childish name calling and bullying the very behavior you whine about in other threads. So in fact you're also hypocritical. But that goes along with the rest of the pathology. I'm not in the least surprised either way. So go run along back to your comfort zones of gaming and distractions - just so you don't EVER have to deal with reality. I'm so hip to this, I just laugh in the face of adversity - and say - been there, done that, you're nothing more than an old, old cliche'. And that you will remain.

Ad hominem troll

Ad hominem troll at its simplest, will attack people personally, rather than the merits of their statements or methodologies.

The ad hominem troll often has already lost a rational argument about a topic, and thus its goal is to change the argument from being about a topic, to being about the people opposed to the troll (which could mean any/all rational person(s) in the discussion), in the hopes of both discrediting people's ideas indirectly by discrediting the people, and engendering an emotional reaction from the people by attacking their egos / self-image. The "getting a reaction out of" goal is common to most troll types.

The simple ad hominem troll is easily detected and dealt with by calling them on their ad hominem attacks.

However, often ad hominem troll will start its discourse with seemingly reasonable commentary, perhaps an analogy etc. Using rational tone, they may lull you into thinking that they are rational in general and thus their entire message should be considered rational. Once they have established such an impression, then they will then descend into personal attacks which may even sound reasonably worded, until you recognize them for what they are, nothing more than personal attacks.

Example: thacker. thacker starts by ignoring the previous comment (which itself was a rational challenge to thacker's earlier statements), repeating himself (see the section below on Repeating themselves), then moves onto an analogy. Afterwards he continues with personal attacks, starting subtly worded, then increasingly harsh:
"some here, yourself included, will not see nor understand the parallels"
"Your noses are simply buried too deeply into the proverbial bark."
"Or you lack the courage, will, ability to step away and ask the truly difficult questions. That is a shame."
The best tactic to take with such a troll is as stated. Quote and point out the ad hominem attacks and the fact that they are inappropriate.

If you have already done so, then you have a few options:
If this is a moderated forum, point out the abusive behavior to the forum moderator and get them to ban the troll. Congratulations, you've won.
Ignore the troll. And no longer respond to them. You are depriving the troll of their goal of "getting a reaction out" of you and thus again, you've won. Others in the forum will recognize the troll's insults, your restraint, and you'll be afforded respect for being cognizant enough to ignore the troll.
Offhandedly point it out when responding to a separate topic in the discourse. If you have already pointed out how it is inefficient to respond to trolls in previous discourse, you may, while following up on another issue, just briefly point out that per your previous statement(s), you're not following up to other commentary due to them being of a trollish nature. You may even link "trollish nature" to the specific type of troll here in the TrollTaxonomy and people will put two and two together as far as the specific troll type characterization you linked to, and the trolls in the discourse whom you are ignoring.

http://tantek.pbwiki.com/TrollTaxonomy

Water will kill you by drowning in sufficient amounts, i.e. water has a lethal dose.

Hate to break it to you, but by that definition, you're so troll you live under bridges and eat goats, then stab hobbits with tridents on your days off.

Actually, it's even better than that. You don't need to drown for water to kill you- simply consuming too much water in too short a time can dilute the concentration of electrolytes in your blood and kill you through dilutional hyponatremia. I forget what the exact amount you'd have to drink is, but it's happened to a number of people. Something like a gallon in an hour, or something like that maybe.

No, no- CLUBS. Trolls kill people with *clubs*, not tridents. We must fear jjstar and her mighty Club of Ultimate Hipness (she is *so* hip to this) with which she acts as a conduit for change. Yes, because people who spend their time posting on Internet message boards, arguing with people they apparently have no respect for, are well know for their capability to enact major change.

Ad hominem troll at its simplest, will attack people personally, rather than the merits of their statements or methodologies.

The ad hominem troll often has already lost a rational argument about a topic, and thus its goal is to change the argument from being about a topic, to being about the people opposed to the troll

The simple ad hominem troll is easily detected and dealt with by calling them on their ad hominem attacks.