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nominalist
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26 Oct 2007, 10:07 pm

The bullying I received, as a child and young teen (and sometimes as an adult), was deeply painful and, I suggest, would even constitute a category of oppression. It is, in my view, largely irrelevant that the perpetrators were ignorant concerning my high-functioning autism. I myself had a clouded and distorted view of the issues facing me. The fact is that I and many other aspies, whether diagnosed or self-defined, have, as a consequence of our neurodiversities, been subjected to traumatic and sustained abuse. This oppression of a neurological minority is revealed in the stories we tell each other. It reflects an ideology I term neurotypicalism and, like racism and sexism, cannot be explained away as mere individual victimization.


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26 Oct 2007, 10:17 pm

You cannot change the past so why dwell on it? You're not hurting the people who victimized you, you're only hurting yourself. You're nurturing a bitter seed which will probably result in an even greater chance of being alone the rest of your life. Aren't the odds stacked against us as it is? You have to learn to move on from the past; not forget it, but definitely move on.



nominalist
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26 Oct 2007, 10:33 pm

Spot17 wrote:
You cannot change the past so why dwell on it? You're not hurting the people who victimized you, you're only hurting yourself. You're nurturing a bitter seed which will probably result in an even greater chance of being alone the rest of your life. Aren't the odds stacked against us as it is? You have to learn to move on from the past; not forget it, but definitely move on.


I did not mean my post to sound like I was "angry." Actually, I am not. I got over my anger a long time ago.

I am, however, a sociologist, and, as a sociologist (a college professor), one of the courses I teach is Social Problems. In that course, I discuss various oppressive ideologies, such as racism, classism, sexism, ageism, etc. The point of my posting is to suggest that "neurotypicalism" should be added to the list.


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26 Oct 2007, 11:18 pm

I differentiate sharply between true NTs and the sociopaths who love to pose as their representatives. The hostility you describe is maladaptive in modern society, and it's relatively uncommon in my personal experience. This "oppression" is coming from people who are, themselves, worse than mad.



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26 Oct 2007, 11:20 pm

I think the point I wanted to make, but didn't communicate well, is that there are a lot of people here who are hurting. They experience the pain you're describing, not as a concept to wax poetic over, but as a day to day part of reality.

I'd love to see this forum focus more on how we can better ourselves. Instead, there are too many posts which fuel the fire.

I'm not attacking you, by the way, I'm just trying to point something out.



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26 Oct 2007, 11:28 pm

nominalist wrote:
The bullying I received, as a child and young teen (and sometimes as an adult), was deeply painful and, I suggest, would even constitute a category of oppression. It is, in my view, largely irrelevant that the perpetrators were ignorant concerning my high-functioning autism. I myself had a clouded and distorted view of the issues facing me. The fact is that I and many other aspies, whether diagnosed or self-defined, have, as a consequence of our neurodiversities, been subjected to traumatic and sustained abuse. This oppression of a neurological minority is revealed in the stories we tell each other. It reflects an ideology I term neurotypicalism and, like racism and sexism, cannot be explained away as mere individual victimization.


Exactly how I felt. I thought I had PTSD. I had every symptom of PTSD except the life-threatening event. Well, maybe this was a life-threatening event, lol. The social anxiety got bad only two years after I was last picked on, and the next year it was even worse, to the point where I was looking in the windows of every building I passed to see if there were any snipers, angry people who might want to kill anyone who reminded them of their pathetic selves. Finally, I got so depressed I dropped a lot of the social anxiety, but I still had a lot. When I got that depressed again and went to a shrink and was put on Celexa, suddenly... it vanished. It's amazing what that stuff does to you.



nominalist
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26 Oct 2007, 11:29 pm

Griff wrote:
I differentiate sharply between true NTs and the sociopaths who love to pose as their representatives. The hostility you describe is maladaptive in modern society, and it's relatively uncommon in my personal experience. This "oppression" is coming from people who are, themselves, worse than mad.


It was literally an everyday occurrence for me as a child.


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Ana54
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26 Oct 2007, 11:33 pm

nominalist wrote:
Griff wrote:
I differentiate sharply between true NTs and the sociopaths who love to pose as their representatives. The hostility you describe is maladaptive in modern society, and it's relatively uncommon in my personal experience. This "oppression" is coming from people who are, themselves, worse than mad.


It was literally an everyday occurrence for me as a child.


Me too! I was picked on by about 20 people at each of 3 schools I went to, and about 5 at another school. Not to mention all the other times!



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27 Oct 2007, 2:49 am

Bullying of me stopped after I had a meltdown in which I attacked one of the ringleaders with my teeth bared and my nails, and screams/growls (?). This seemed to shock them into respectful/pitying (?!) avoidance from then on. But I had also "become" less noticeable or bizarre generally anyway, by no longer asking "enthusiastically" for homework, by joining in mockery of "weak" teachers( badly dressed , slow talking, easily blushing, plain/ugly, "clumpy" and "awkward" ! !??! which is what I was/had been until started to "get my act together" !) , and by "doing" the moaning about schoolwork etc etc which seemed obligatory!! and also built up the one friendship I would have at grammar school, which made me less obvious too. Someone on their own always sticks out more than a pair .

I still don't quite know what it was that provoked their bullying of me. I can remember some what now seem like excruciating naiveties on my part, when I over and over again simply didn't understand what they were talking about , what they meant , what was intended.( I trained myself dedicatedly in "worldliness" from 13-18, and it worked!! ) But from 11-14 or so I think I was very visibly at sea, and powerless because I didn't know the language to fit in or survive. I think they were reacting to difference and powerlessness, but whether this could be called neurotypicalism , I don't know.

I bullied too. The NT feelings of a girl who had been friends with me for a while (before I found another odd-girl-out-eccentric to be special friends with! ), with a kind soft heart and bubbly unquestioning acceptance of me. Way too normal for me!!

Can something which is about capitalist care for profits be called Neurotypicalism, the oppression of having to sit in open-plan offices ?!!Actually the whole industrial revolution ( urbanisation, factories etc)counts in my book!!



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27 Oct 2007, 4:09 am

Nominalist,

I suggest you click on the link in my signature - Professor Tony Attwood talked about bullying at length.

Helen



nominalist
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27 Oct 2007, 7:12 am

Ana54 wrote:
Exactly how I felt. I thought I had PTSD. I had every symptom of PTSD except the life-threatening event. Well, maybe this was a life-threatening event, lol. The social anxiety got bad only two years after I was last picked on, and the next year it was even worse, to the point where I was looking in the windows of every building I passed to see if there were any snipers, angry people who might want to kill anyone who reminded them of their pathetic selves.


For about a year, I had constant stomach pains. For a while, I refused to go to school because of the pain. Well, the stomach aches were anxiety-driven and were, in retrospect, a coping mechanism. Unfortunately, I got blamed for the problem. The focus was on my anxiety, not on the bullying which was responsible for it.


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nominalist
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27 Oct 2007, 7:17 am

Smelena wrote:
I suggest you click on the link in my signature - Professor Tony Attwood talked about bullying at length.


Hi, Helen,

Yes. I have his book, The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome. I really related with what he wrote.

Thank you.


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27 Oct 2007, 7:47 am

nominalist wrote:
Griff wrote:
I differentiate sharply between true NTs and the sociopaths who love to pose as their representatives. The hostility you describe is maladaptive in modern society, and it's relatively uncommon in my personal experience. This "oppression" is coming from people who are, themselves, worse than mad.


It was literally an everyday occurrence for me as a child.
Again, this sort of hostility is maladaptive in modern society. It should not be accepted as normative or typical. This extremely aversive reaction to harmless eccentricities of character is not healthy. It needs to be driven out of our blood. Intolerance is common, not "normal," typical, or socially acceptable.



nominalist
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27 Oct 2007, 7:53 am

Griff wrote:
Again, this sort of hostility is maladaptive in modern society. It should not be accepted as normative or typical. This extremely aversive reaction to harmless eccentricities of character is not healthy. It needs to be driven out of our blood.


The same can be said of racism, sexism, ageism, heterosexism, ethnicism, and classism.


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27 Oct 2007, 7:56 am

nominalist wrote:
Griff wrote:
Again, this sort of hostility is maladaptive in modern society. It should not be accepted as normative or typical. This extremely aversive reaction to harmless eccentricities of character is not healthy. It needs to be driven out of our blood.


The same can be said of racism, sexism, ageism, heterosexism, ethnicism, and classism.
Same underlying cause. Intolerance.



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27 Oct 2007, 1:02 pm

One difference between neurotypicalism and forms of oppression such as sexism, ageism, etc., is that in the case of your bullies, they were reacting to your behavior, rather than to an inborn trait. I know that your behavior was a result of your different neurological wiring, but what they were reacting to was a kid was seemed odd- who wasn't interested in what they were, who only talked about his own interests, who seemed uncoordinated and awkward, etc. I think that is the difference. A kid who did not have AS, but who was just a geek with poor social skills could have been treated the same way, for the same reasons. Not because of AS, but because his behavior annoyed the other kids or made him seem like an easy target. If you'd received excellent social skills training at a young age and were able to engage the other children in the usual way, I doubt you would have been bullied the way you were. I would argue therefore that it is not the fact that you had Asperger's, but the presentation of your unusual behavior that motivated the children to bully you. Therefore, I don't think neurotypicalism can be placed in the same category as forms of oppression in which the actual *trait* rather than behavior is the motivation for the oppression. The sexists and racists believe certain stereotypes about the groups they oppress, which justify their bullying. However, bullies of AS kids are not basing their bullying on stereotypes, but rather on real, observed behavior. I hope you realize that I'm not justifying their bullying, though. I think it's terrible.