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NightsideEclipse
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13 Nov 2007, 1:51 am

Hello, I have only posted on here a little bit. Anyway, I am a 20 year old college sophomore, diagnosed with AS, and I would say that I am reasonably attractive (though I'll let you judge for yourself (photo link) on that detail). Anyway, I will give a bit of background on the woman I'm interested in and hopefully, you'll be able to help me out a bit.

First off, she is 23 years old, a college graduate (from the same university I currently attend), and is currently living at home with her parents while she is working on getting into graduate school. I met her in June at a panel about aspies in college at which she spoke. We enjoyed meeting one another and I told her I would write her on facebook. I didn't write her until about a month after that. In turn, she did not write back for another month after that (understandable, as she was very busy moving around the states speaking about AS). After exchanging a few messages, we talked several times during the summer and they went rather well. I was quite interested in a different girl at that time, but I felt like we connected well when we talked. Finally, around the middle of September, she suggested that we get lunch together, so we did and then we went back to my house to watch a movie. As school started, we didn't talk as much, but the conversations still went well.

At the beginning of last month, I asked her to see a play with me, and she agreed. Also, I noticed that in earlier conversations (from around mid to late September), she suggested to me that we go to lunch when she comes to the university to get grad school recommendations. Later, she suggested that we go to dinner when she comes to the university; is that a sign that I was moving up the ladder 8) ? Anyway, about three and a half weeks ago, we went to the play. It went pretty well; she told me she was glad that I got her out of the house. When she dropped me off back at my residence hall, she said, "Thanks for taking me out," which I thought was interesting since she was the one who drove. We didn't talk for a little over a week, and that was the last time we talked for the time being. It didn't go as smoothly as some earlier conversations, but she did tell me that she enjoyed talking to me.

Anyway, I will first discuss the things which are in my favor. First, we both agreed that we are more or less at the same point on the spectrum. This means that we communicate similarly and can understand one another much easier than we can understand most others. Plus, we have common interests; we aren't exactly alike interestwise, but we have enough in common that we can talk about them and do things together. Also, I've noticed that she always seems spritely in tone when I call and whenever she is busy and must call me back later, she always calls back when she says she will or shortly thereafter.

Yet, there are some things which might be (but are not necessarily) obstacles. The first is the age difference; as I mentioned before, she is three years older than me. However, I'm not too concerned about this because the content and nature of our conversations suggests to me that she regards me as a peer and not as someone younger. Also, she seems to be either the same height as me or an inch or two taller. Again, I'm not sure this would be an issue. It seems to me that aspie women wouldn't care as much about height as NTs. However, the biggest issue is what she has told me about relationships. She has not dated since high school and she said once in a conversation around the end of August that she was not really looking because she wanted to focus on her academic success. It didn't sound like she was outright rejecting the idea of having a relationship with someone, but she seemed a bit disinterested.

Now, with everything mentioned here, how would you suggest I express my interest in her to her? Does the situation I describe sound like I have a chance of success? Why or why not? Also, if there is anything at all that I have not explained clearly, feel free to ask me questions so I can further clarify the situation. Thank you very much for taking the time.



arem
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13 Nov 2007, 5:40 pm

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as I mentioned before, she is three years older than me.


Very much not an issue. I know a couple that have around 25 years between the pair of them...

As for explaining it to her... the "normal" thing to do seems to be to ask them out for lunch/dinner in increasing frequency. Most people never seem to ask someone to be their boy/girlfriend, at least once they reach adulthood.


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13 Nov 2007, 6:12 pm

I'm no expert but it seems reasonable to express an interest in dating but not a full blown, bells and whistles, move-in or whatever relation. She might be interested in a specific type of relationship, probably something that enables her to still focus on her studies and maintain independence.

I wouldn't mention the stuff about how you first met that you weren't interested but you thought you connected anyway (...in hindsight). Not relevant now. I sort of thought along those lines before, you end up kicking yourself if it doesn't ever happen. It was probably because you weren't focusing on a relationship that you got on ok. Now you are and you're getting on ok also.



NightsideEclipse
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28 Nov 2007, 7:03 pm

To the women here, I'd really like to know what you have to say. Your words would be most relevant and thus most appreciated.



Last edited by NightsideEclipse on 28 Nov 2007, 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NightsideEclipse
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28 Nov 2007, 7:06 pm

arem wrote:
As for explaining it to her... the "normal" thing to do seems to be to ask them out for lunch/dinner in increasing frequency. Most people never seem to ask someone to be their boy/girlfriend, at least once they reach adulthood.

The "normal" thing? Why would I have to do things "normally" with another Aspie? :D Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of setting my sights on her instead of an NT girl?



gwenevyn
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28 Nov 2007, 8:13 pm

NightsideEclipse wrote:
To the women here, I'd really like to know what you have to say. Your words would be most relevant and thus most appreciated.


You called? :smurfin:

Quote:
Now, with everything mentioned here, how would you suggest I express my interest in her to her?


I'd suggest that you keep up the same thing you've been doing. If you have any background information regarding situations in which she has accepted or declined romantic interest from guys in the past, that would be helpful to consider. As the other poster stated, you could gradually bump up the frequency of your calls and invitations, so long as her reactions continue to be favorable.

Quote:
The "normal" thing? Why would I have to do things "normally" with another Aspie? :D Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of setting my sights on her instead of an NT girl?


Certainly there is some variation among individuals, AS and NT alike. Some people are very receptive to a direct, "Hey, I like you, do you like me?" approach. Most people are not. Even people with AS like to feel like they're "falling" for someone, not arranging it deliberately. The beginning stages of courting a woman who has AS are not much different from courting a woman who does not. Some elements will be quirkier and there will probably not be as many rigid expectations, but her feelings of attraction will need to build up just like anyone else's. Rather than being direct about your romantic feelings at an early juncture (which creates feelings of being cornered in most people), I'd recommend focusing on creating opportunities for romantic things to occur and paying careful attention to what she does in response.

Quote:
Does the situation I describe sound like I have a chance of success? Why or why not?


I think it's pretty clear that she's very interested in you. Or was. How long has it been since you last saw her? At the very least she has a strong interest in who you are as a person. This may or may not be romantic. The only reason I hesitate to say it's romantic for sure is that she is an aspie and I suppose it's possible she could unwittingly be giving out the wrong signals. I think it sounds like you're receiving an exceedingly favorable response to your efforts and you should continue.


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Myrkabah
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28 Nov 2007, 8:16 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
Some people are very receptive to a direct, "Hey, I like you, do you like me?" approach. Most people are not.


Really?

Edit: It just seems so much........ easier! Why not go that route?



gwenevyn
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28 Nov 2007, 8:52 pm

Myrkabah wrote:
gwenevyn wrote:
Some people are very receptive to a direct, "Hey, I like you, do you like me?" approach. Most people are not.


Really?

Edit: It just seems so much........ easier! Why not go that route?


Hmm... I don't know. I shall explore. Stream of consciousness follows...

I remember the direct approach working in high school. Adults seem to require more subtlety in my observations and experience. Maybe because the novelty of "omg sum1 on this planet likes MEEE!?!" has worn off already. Or maybe it's because high schoolers send each other very obvious signals but don't yet have the confidence to interpret said signals. Plus teens are still in the process of moving out of having a childlike kind of closeness with everybody around them, so maybe they require confessions of romantic affection in order to be certain of what's going on.

Attractive women are constantly having to deal with guys approaching them with this stuff. If she's a pretty girl and she's 23 years old, at least a dozen guys have already been at her door (figuratively) confessing their supposedly undying love for her before she even really knows them or has had time to think of them "in that way". That gets really old, really fast. When I've had a couple conversations with a guy and he suddenly says "I'm interested in you romantically" or "would you be my girlfriend?" my first emotional reaction is often something along the lines of, "Good grief, another one!" (My second reaction is more compassionate, but not more interested.) We shoot ourselves in the foot (guys and girls alike--I've done it, too) when we ask someone to be attracted to us before setting ourselves apart from the crowd somehow and allowing the other person to respond to smaller invitations to closeness.

The succint answer is: because you cannot produce attraction through reason.

Or I'm just wrong.


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28 Nov 2007, 9:24 pm

gwenevyn wrote:

Attractive women are constantly having to deal with guys approaching them with this stuff. If she's a pretty girl and she's 23 years old, at least a dozen guys have already been at her door (figuratively) confessing their supposedly undying love for her before she even really knows them or has had time to think of them "in that way". That gets really old, really fast. When I've had a couple conversations with a guy and he suddenly says "I'm interested in you romantically" or "would you be my girlfriend?" my first emotional reaction is often something along the lines of, "Good grief, another one!" (My second reaction is more compassionate, but not more interested.) We shoot ourselves in the foot (guys and girls alike--I've done it, too) when we ask someone to be attracted to us before setting ourselves apart from the crowd somehow and allowing the other person to respond to smaller invitations to closeness.


Well, you are in the unique position of having a very large quantity of the male population falling for you at a moments notice. :P

But yeah, don't express interest or at least strong interest... unless you know she is feeling similarly. Hang around with her and be interesting and a person she would want to be with. But your desire to be with her has no baring on if she want's to be with you or not...

As gwen said, it may depend on how many guys approach her. If she's hasn't had too many guys approach her, she could be more receptive of another guy being interested in her.

Saying she's not interested in a relationship or whatever... is sort of bad news. Unless she's completely closed her heart... I don't think it's impossible though. She'll be ready if the right guy comes along. The story of finding your love when you weren't expecting it is more of a female cliché than a male one...


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Myrkabah
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28 Nov 2007, 9:32 pm

gwenevyn wrote:

Attractive women are constantly having to deal with guys approaching them with this stuff. If she's a pretty girl and she's 23 years old, at least a dozen guys have already been at her door (figuratively) confessing their supposedly undying love for her before she even really knows them or has had time to think of them "in that way". That gets really old, really fast. When I've had a couple conversations with a guy and he suddenly says "I'm interested in you romantically" or "would you be my girlfriend?" my first emotional reaction is often something along the lines of, "Good grief, another one!" (My second reaction is more compassionate, but not more interested.) We shoot ourselves in the foot (guys and girls alike--I've done it, too) when we ask someone to be attracted to us before setting ourselves apart from the crowd somehow and allowing the other person to respond to smaller invitations to closeness.


Ah, I see. Perhaps my confusion here is that I'm not thinking of approaching so much in the sense of "be my girlfriend" but in the sense of "I find myself interested in and attracted to you, so I want to explore that and see where it goes". Which is, essentially, what that whole game is once you get past the pussyfooting around about it. Just seeing if there's more than the surface feelings involved.

One of the things I've learned getting older is that attraction means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things - I'm attracted to lots of people. That's why I have crushes every so often and have no real inclination to actually follow through with it. It would almost certainly quite different than the chemical rush that I get from the experience, and just having a completely irrational tongue-tying crush on someone is really a quite pleasurable experience in itself, and I don't really want to have reality come crashing in on that. If it's a person that I regard as any more than a crush, it's because I respect and care about them, and I feel strange keeping things back from the people I respect. I also have a huge amount of difficulty presenting anything except at face-value.

I guess I just don't do well at playing coy...

It seems what you're saying is my tendency to try to just spit out what it is I'm feeling tends to be interpreted (correctly or not) as clinginess or irrational attachment. I guess I could see that - I know of a few instances in my past where it certainly was that. It's just that keeping that kind of feeling hidden because it ostensibly increases the likelihood that it will be eventually returned strikes me as a bit backwards and mildly deceptive. The very thing I'm looking for is to be able to state my feelings, thoughts and emotions openly and at face value, and it doesn't seem quite right to look for that in an area where I have to initially start by doing exactly the opposite.

Quote:
The succint answer is: because you cannot produce attraction through reason.


Case in point: My ex-fiance.

/ba-dum-CHING!



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28 Nov 2007, 9:42 pm

Myrkabah wrote:
Ah, I see. Perhaps my confusion here is that I'm not thinking of approaching so much in the sense of "be my girlfriend" but in the sense of "I find myself interested in and attracted to you, so I want to explore that and see where it goes". Which is, essentially, what that whole game is once you get past the pussyfooting around about it. Just seeing if there's more than the surface feelings involved.


I think action here can speak louder than words, in the good way.

If you want to spend time with her, because you like her... do just that. Don't say I'm falling for you... just spend more time with her. If she's feeling the same about you, she'll want to spend time with you too...

If she's trying to get closer to you... it should be obvious... and then you can push a little closer... but not so much in words...

I'm still learning... but this is closer to the way it works...I think...


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Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


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28 Nov 2007, 9:48 pm

Pugly wrote:
Well, you are in the unique position of having a very large quantity of the male population falling for you at a moments notice. :P


I don't think it's that unique, really, given what other girls here have said. Maybe it does happen more often to girls who prefer male friends though. I don't think I've heard these complaints coming from my NT friends here in town and they're very pretty girls IMO... but they just hang out with girls.


Quote:
I don't think it's impossible though. She'll be ready if the right guy comes along.


Quoted for emphasis. :)

Quote:
The story of finding your love when you weren't expecting it is more of a female cliché than a male one...


Interesting idea! I've heard this from guys, though.... but it's less frequently the case for them?


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28 Nov 2007, 9:51 pm

Pugly wrote:

I think action here can speak louder than words, in the good way.

If you want to spend time with her, because you like her... do just that. Don't say I'm falling for you... just spend more time with her. If she's feeling the same about you, she'll want to spend time with you too...

If she's trying to get closer to you... it should be obvious... and then you can push a little closer... but not so much in words...

I'm still learning... but this is closer to the way it works...I think...


This sounds suspiciously like non-verbal communication. ;)

It's good advice, though. I think my experiences in my past where I've completely misinterpreted someone's actions and the aftermath of that has made me much more unlikely to be able to cope with the uncertainty. It's pretty clear that I can interpret interest that is completely and utterly devoid of romantic or attractive connotations as being romantic interest. I'm probably less in a place to be so emotionally hurt by it, but the tendency from the past is still there.

I feel like I have no way of knowing what's going on until it's spelled out. The way people act doesn't make any sense at all, and I don't particularly want to be led on or get the wrong idea. It's humiliating.



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28 Nov 2007, 9:58 pm

gwenevyn wrote:

I don't think it's that unique, really, given what other girls here have said. Maybe it does happen more often to girls who prefer male friends though.


Aspie men also outnumber aspie women by about 4-5:1 - it's the same reason geek girls are so fawned upon. There aren't enough to go around, and nobody wants to share. (Including myself!)

For every aspie guy who finds a girl like him, there's three or four who either end up with a non-aspie partner, or single. And I think it's a pretty common thread to wish that one could find someone "like me". Especially when you spend so much of your life unable to relate meaningfully with most people. From our point of view, there's a hell of a lot more people looking for the same thing we are than there are people who fit the criteria.

It also somewhat necessitates not taking your time with it - it's pretty much a guarantee that an attractive aspie/geek girl is being courted by other men, and the adage "there are other fish in the sea" simply doesn't hold as true. If someone else gets the jump because they were more forward, it isn't like you can just go find another girl. They don't come up very often. Hence; they fall for you. Fast.

The ironic thing is that this tends to have the exact opposite result that they're hoping for.



Last edited by Myrkabah on 28 Nov 2007, 10:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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28 Nov 2007, 10:02 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
I don't think it's that unique, really, given what other girls here have said. Maybe it does happen more often to girls who prefer male friends though. I don't think I've heard these complaints coming from my NT friends here in town and they're very pretty girls IMO... but they just hang out with girls.


Well, it may not be rare. Most women are approached by many guys... I think. But I think you represent an extreme on this spectrum. It's very, very easy to be smitten with you. :wink:

gwenevyn wrote:
Quote:
I don't think it's impossible though. She'll be ready if the right guy comes along.


Quoted for emphasis. :)


I'll quote this for emphasis someday. :(

:D

gwenevyn wrote:
Interesting idea! I've heard this from guys, though.... but it's less frequently the case for them?


Well, this is advice given by women to guys. I don't think it holds true though. Guys can't just wait in the wings, they need to do some action and go after women to some degree... even if it's extremely subtle or driven by the subconscious.

Perhaps it is just my situation, but if I don't talk with women... they'll never talk with me. In nearly every case I have to do all initiating... and I have to mentally force myself to even a little bit. I don't see this changing, and find myself with someone without any effort on my part. I'll be expecting it, and doing my best to make it happen...


_________________
Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.